Nazi paraphernalia on sale at Banqiao station?


#61

As i said, taiwanese people would be offended by something equal. Look at how sensitive chinese are to japan. Do you think westerners could get away with a similar thing using japanese WW2 themed decor and costumes? Absolutely not, chinese would (understandably) lose their shit.

This is not an issue of being overly PC or some thought police thing, its simply about ignorance.


#62

I really doubt that. What’s equal here? I think a kitschy store displaying the Rising Sun Flag say to attract business would pass totally without notice, and a place selling historical memorabilia even less so. It still sees some use, which doesn’t seem to attract protest, among the considerable protest by Chinese against Japan that does occur (though I can’t seem to find much that has occurred stateside.)

I can’t think of another analogous symbol or situation.

haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.662779

I disagree. I’ll bet the store owner knows fully well what it means, but simply doesn’t care. Do you think that if approached, and duly educated, the store owner would give a few pie-says and then remove those objects? That I wouldn’t care to bet on.


#63

Uhmmm I liked the comparison, but I guess that it’s not the same. indeed, you could sell Chan Kai Shek (yeah, whatever name he had) tshirts in London… and some Taiwanese would like them.

Still not the same, I guess.


#64

You have to admit Taiwanese wearing Wehrmacht clothes is kinda sexy cute. More sexy than cute which is nice


#65

Which Taiwanese?


#66

reuters.com/article/2008/08/ … 8820080808
businesskorea.co.kr/article/ … -and-japan
koreaherald.com/view.php?ud= … 1376&cpv=0
japandailypress.com/courting-con … ag-149097/

Have you ever seen how Chinese people react to the Taiwanese flag? Now imagine the flag of their sworn enemy…


#67

I bet he has no idea what it really means. Ive asked plenty of taiwanese what it means and they were not really educated in detail about what happend in europe in ww2.

A rising sun flag is not the same as a fully kitted shop like this. This sort of thing happens because they think it is cool from seeing nazis in movies and stuff, its a kind of geeky thing. The same thing doesn’t happen with japanese ww2 appeal, what i am saying is if it did and if westerners thought it was cool to dress up like japanese ww2 soldiers then of course chinese people would be offended by it.

How about i make an opium themed shop, something to gloryfy that time, chinese people would be offended. I’m sorry but Its nonsense to think that they wouldn’t be offended by an equal thing in the same way that westerners are.

Infact i would say they are quite sensitive and easily offended, so they are in no position to be so ignorant of outsiders just because they can get away with it.


#68

This comment makes sense in the context of an outsider telling you what you should and shouldn’t display. If I said “don’t display a Confederate flag because black people will get offended,” you could argue I’m overstepping my bounds. But I am the one being offended by the Nazi flags (though admittedly the picture posted above is nowhere near as bad as I was expecting). Have I lost my right to be personally offended and demand people be responsible for the symbols they show off?[/quote]

Oh it’s perfectly OK for you to get offended. Nothing surprising about a Jewish person (whether merely ethnically or actually religious) being offended by a Nazi flag.

That said, all kinds of relatively trivial things seem to offend you.

Meanwhile, certain flagrant human rights abuses (apparently) don’t offend you. Again, that’s perfectly OK. It’s natural not to question the familiar. You’d be far from the only one with a blind spot on certain issues - if indeed you do have such a blind spot.

Finally, just as you have the right to point out that something offends you, others have the right to note that it doesn’t offend them. They might even go further and note that while the something in question offers fine material for a couple of minutes of hate, it’s of little importance compared to real abuses that somehow fly under the radar - ironically partly because pointing them out causes ‘offense’ in certain quarters.


#69

Which Taiwanese?[/quote]

Jesus let me explain it to you clearly in case you havent figured it out yet.
One single Taiwanese person equals all Taiwanese. This is in response to their infantile classification of all non ethnic Taiwanese as outsiders. The onus is on them to change first as we are only guests

That said, I have often been the bigger person and made the required PC distinction


#70

[quote=“Kiwi”] said, all kinds of relatively trivial things seem to offend you.

Meanwhile, certain flagrant human rights abuses (apparently) don’t offend you.[/quote]

What, exactly, did I say doesn’t offend me? Some things are trivial to you, but they aren’t to me, and vice versa. That’s precisely the reason why it’s important to respect other people’s sense of decency.

When someone tells a person that doing something or saying something or showing something is deeply offensive and that person just waves it off and keeps on doing, saying, or showing it… that’s called being an asshole.


#71

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]

reuters.com/article/2008/08/ … 8820080808
businesskorea.co.kr/article/ … -and-japan
koreaherald.com/view.php?ud= … 1376&cpv=0
japandailypress.com/courting-con … ag-149097/

Have you ever seen how Chinese people react to the Taiwanese flag? Now imagine the flag of their sworn enemy…[/quote]

Those aren’t analogous to what RR was saying. One happened in Beijing, and two more involved official usage of the flag, and happened in Korea–both places which were directly affected by Japanese aggression. I can’t open the 4th link.

In detail no, but not knowing that the Nazis were a fascist regime that killed millions? Any educated person will know that IMO, and that’s more than enough to understand how it could be offensive, if one cared.

The store seems to have a couple of SS-themed banners on display, or is there anything else? I’m not sure what would be more analogous. Perhaps if a store had Unit 731 banners, people would lose their shit, but it’s not a symbol that anyone knows.

Maybe you’re right. There was a pretty popular bar called “the Opium Den” right here in Taipei for a while though, predating the one mentioned in this article. I don’t think anyone objected.

taipeitimes.com/News/feat/ar … 2003552786


#72

[quote=“Hokwongwei”][quote=“Kiwi”] said, all kinds of relatively trivial things seem to offend you.

Meanwhile, certain flagrant human rights abuses (apparently) don’t offend you.[/quote]

What, exactly, did I say doesn’t offend me? Some things are trivial to you, but they aren’t to me, and vice versa. That’s precisely the reason why it’s important to respect other people’s sense of decency.[/quote]

The human rights abuse I refer to is the sexual mutilation of children in the name of religion. You haven’t commented one way or another on whether it bothers you, though (predictably) you’ve intimated that my mentioning it in relation to Judaism is antisemitic. Apparently it’s mostly a Filipino thing.

I don’t see it as important to “respect other people’s sense of decency” if that means letting them deny other people their human rights. So both genocidal Nazis and genital mutilators should be stopped. Obviously you’d stop the former before the latter, since they’re clearly the bigger evil. These days of course Nazis are no longer a thing (which is why Nazi flags don’t seem a big deal to me) while genital mutilators obviously still are.

When someone tells a person that doing something or saying something or showing something is deeply offensive and that person just waves it off and keeps on doing, saying, or showing it… that’s called being an asshole.[/quote]

Indeed.

It’s not just individuals either. Entire belief systems, whether political or religious, can also act like real arseholes and just keep on doing their thing. Who needs ‘human rights’ when you’ve got God (or the Fuhrer) on your side?


#73

Someone from another continent, some foreigner, barging in and making demands? I honestly think I’d tell them to get lost. What right do they have?

It might even feel a bit like PRC students coming to my country and attacking Tibetan flags, or demanding ROC flags not be displayed.[/quote]

No, it’s completely different, for obvious reasons. What’s with the analogy schtick? Do you actually propose that as a counter to what I wrote? Curioser and curioser.

Look, I understand why you wouldn’t want to engage. It’s OK. It doesn’t matter.[/quote]

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. What I meant was that, were I Taiwanese (I’m not), I might not react well to some foreigner lecturing me. I just pulled out a couple of examples I’ve personally seen of foreigners barging in and making demands about flags. Not very good examples, but just what came to mind at the time.

Look, I agree Taiwanese society could improve in this regard. Taiwan seems to have some kind of ‘Nazi scandal’ every year. Embarrassing for Taiwan, but also always looks pretty harmless.[/quote]

No, you were clear, I just don’t agree.

Fuck it, whatever.


#74

I’m still trying to come to terms with the fact that I’m a victim of genital mutilation. I shall never be able to look at my penis again… :idunno:


#75

Someone from another continent, some foreigner, barging in and making demands? I honestly think I’d tell them to get lost. What right do they have?

It might even feel a bit like PRC students coming to my country and attacking Tibetan flags, or demanding ROC flags not be displayed.[/quote]

No, it’s completely different, for obvious reasons. What’s with the analogy schtick? Do you actually propose that as a counter to what I wrote? Curioser and curioser.

Look, I understand why you wouldn’t want to engage. It’s OK. It doesn’t matter.[/quote]

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. What I meant was that, were I Taiwanese (I’m not), I might not react well to some foreigner lecturing me. I just pulled out a couple of examples I’ve personally seen of foreigners barging in and making demands about flags. Not very good examples, but just what came to mind at the time.

Look, I agree Taiwanese society could improve in this regard. Taiwan seems to have some kind of ‘Nazi scandal’ every year. Embarrassing for Taiwan, but also always looks pretty harmless.[/quote]

No, you were clear, I just don’t agree.

Fuck it, whatever.[/quote]

That’s the spirit!


#76

Just reality isn’t it? Respond to it however you like.


#77

:laughing:


#78

That happened? Are you sure?

I mentioned I was Jewish, and I did not say that my being Jewish is why I think the Nazis were bad guys. I think the Nazis and absolutely everything they stood far were bad because I’m a rational, feeling human being, and all human beings should feel this way. I didn’t give my view on circumcision, nor did I imply you were an anti-Semite. I think you’re just hoping I do so you can feel that I’m arguing my point simply because I’m Jewish. The only person who has even used the word “anti-Semitic” in this thread is you.

But let’s talk about why we’re even discussing circumcision. You basically said: don’t sweat the small stuff because there’s a whole world of human rights violations we should worry about. That’s a hugely fallacious argument. What if I told you not to care so much about circumcision because Thai fishing boat captains kidnap people and force them to work until they die? There’s no correlation between these two issues, and no reason that caring about one means you don’t care about the other. I’m going to continue arguing that Nazi symbols are bad, because let’s use our brains here – the Nazis were pretty bad. That does not impede your right to fight against circumcision, nor does it imply I in any way, shape, or form either endorse or reject the practice.

And obviously you’d rather stop circumcision than child soldiers, India’s rape epidemic, Ebola, and Thai slavery right? That’s not how it works. You can care about an issue without ignoring other issues. You’re the one who is assuming based on pure speculation that I’m a fan of circumcision.


#79

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]

reuters.com/article/2008/08/ … 8820080808
businesskorea.co.kr/article/ … -and-japan
koreaherald.com/view.php?ud= … 1376&cpv=0
japandailypress.com/courting-con … ag-149097/

Have you ever seen how Chinese people react to the Taiwanese flag? Now imagine the flag of their sworn enemy…[/quote]

Those aren’t analogous to what RR was saying. One happened in Beijing, and two more involved official usage of the flag, and happened in Korea–both places which were directly affected by Japanese aggression.[/quote]

How’s this?

kotaku.com/muse-uses-japans-risi … -477840958

A British band in their English-language music video used the Rising Sun flag. And then people got angry, and they removed it. I would expect the same if a Taiwanese band decided to use a Nazi flag in a video.


#80

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]

kotaku.com/muse-uses-japans-risi … -477840958

A British band in their English-language music video used the Rising Sun flag. And then people got angry, and they removed it. I would expect the same if a Taiwanese band decided to use a Nazi flag in a video.[/quote]

Pretty good, though it was all purely internet based. I believe a Taiwanese band using a Nazi flag could get expect the same.

Here’s an interesting thread:

quora.com/Where-can-I-repor … lag-in-NYC

It’s not really an analogous symbol in the end. I can’t really imagine an ordinary business back home using anything like an SS insignia to promote their business, and I do believe they would get a negative reaction if they did.