Ok Taiwan sucks... so what are we gonna do about it?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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I lurk alot on this forum, probably lurk more than post, I read alot of negative stuff on Taiwan, I mean probably 5 out of 10 threads here are about how much Taiwan sucks…

Ok I admit Taiwan does suck, I mean the cha bu duo-ness is just crazy, people love money so much its like their god, and traffic suck so bad that you’d have to make sure you got your will written before heading out. Bosses suck, people have no respect for their environment… but it could have been worse.

Ever been to Africa? I mean they got war and famine and you are either very rich or very poor, nothing in between. Or go to India, traffic is so crazy you’d think Taiwan is safe. Or people in China loves money even more…

I mean Taiwan has come a long way, used to be much worse, you couldn’t even grow your hair long as a man 30 years ago, if you did you’d be arrested. Today schools aren’t allowed to force you to have haircuts. The garbage problem used to be a LOT worse and people used to dump anything and everything they can think of into any rivers and streams they could find, and Ji-Long river was so polluted that the river was BLACK and you could not go near it. The skies over Taipei used to be gray at all time, even if it was sunny. And the government, well back then it was a military dictatorship, now you can call A-bien a bitch if you wanted to. Imagine saying that to Chaing Kai Shek back then… you’d be in jail or possibly dead for that.

I know I don’t like Taiwan but I think a lot of newcomers would probably like to hear more positive things about Taiwan so they’d want to come rather than avoid this place… I mean seriously if you don’t like Taiwan why don’t you leave? I wish I have the option to do that…

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Departure date: March 1, 2008.

As for what “we” are going to do about it, change comes from within. Taiwan has changed since the days of CKS, and it will continue to change just as all countries do. Whether it changes for the better is up to the Taiwanese.

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I agree with all of the above.

I just wonder if a) Taiwan attracts really negative people; b) it has the superpower to turn a lot of us this way); c) or most expats are a bunch of masochists that will have similar reactions no matter what country we are in?

I mean, technically, we’re all free to leave, we’ve got foreign passports that will take us almost anywhere we wish. We can find jobs in other countries and back home.
Even if we signed a contract, it’s not life threatening to just go to the airport and leave! (Don’t remember who’s writing that often on this forum, but I’m quoting “Taoyuan airport is just a taxi ride away!”) What’s a few thousand bucks or a broken lease really worth? So that’s not the real excuse!

So what’s keeping expats on this island although from many of the opinions expressed on this forum, this place does have major downsides???
Ok, I know: easy money, carefree lifestyle, chicks by the dozen (speaking on the behalf of males here!!!), nice weather (if you’re from Canada I mean). So if most of us can get that, what’s about the nagging???

A beautiful day to all of you!!!

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Because, like you said, the positives outweigh the negatives, but there are many negatives.

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Frankly, while there is certainly a lot of valid criticism that can be directed towards Taiwan, or any country in the world, the majority of what I see on here comes from people who don’t SPEAK CHINESE let alone understand the intricacies of the culture here. And so frankly I ignore almost all of it.

Some things like traffic of course are totally unrelated to language and culture and I think are valid targets for criticism. All I can say is thank God people don’t honk here like they do in China…

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I dunno, but being inconsiderate, selfish and rude, as many people here are, doesn’t seem to have anything to do with me not speaking Chinese. And the way they drive is part of the culture.

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Departure date: March 1, 2008.

[/quote]

I hopefully leave before you. So let’s sing together.

… I’m leaving on a jet plane. Don’t know if I’ll be back again…

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I love Taiwan. However, I hate unfairness, especially in law, and that seems to be very common here. Perhaps I’m mistaken. Let me know if this is the case.

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The more I learn the lanuage, the more I understand locals I pass in the street are saying insulting things about me.

The more I learn about the culture, the more I dislike it. Pigs of God is a perfect example. There are no intricacies there, it is wrong - period.

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:laughing: Amen to that. Ignorance was bliss.

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True, and the negatives (people cutting in line, loud cell phone talking, umbrella swingers, black mercedes cutting you off in the crosswalk, crappy weather, pollution, chabuduo, etc) can be infuriating at first, but after a while one can learn not to be bothered by them and hardly even to notice them, so they’re no longer negative after all. And there can be many positives.

And I’ve got my departure date too: March 1, 2009 (finish three years of this job, then after the CNY bonus). :slight_smile:

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The more I learn the language, the more I understand locals I pass in the street are saying insulting things about me.

The more I learn about the culture, the more I dislike it. Pigs of God is a perfect example. There are no intricacies there, it is wrong - period.[/quote]

Well, I have to agree on that one. I used to like the place so much more when I could barely get by in Chinese. I was meeting the 0.001% that can actually speak English (and have higher chances of being international) and couldn’t understand most people’s comments and insults.

As said before, Ignorance is Bliss!!! The people I know that like living here have been here for a long time but can’t really speak Mandarin past the few sentences/useful words. They can happilly ignore what’s going on around them and just focus on what’s important.

Now that I can understand and I even have the hubby to clarify the parts I don’t get, well, I just wish I could go back to being ignorant!!! What I’ve been discovering since I “ting le dong” is quite appalling and it makes me dislike the place! Yep, you learn a language to understand people’s insults or disgraceful comments towards you and foreigners in general… But at least, now I can reply!!! It’s always fun to see their reaction after seeing that I actually understand their flowers of poetry!!! Hope it teaches a few to hold their tongues!

And as a perk, you can understand their opinions, views, scope of general culture (5000 years of civilization and this is the result!!! :unamused: ), level of education, values… Mmm!!! :laughing: Intricacies…eerrrhhh. :astonished: Well, I just hope some laowai here landed in a nicer social circle than me. From what I read in this forum, looks like my social circle here is similar to most waiguoren’s experience.

That being said, the (few and far between) cool people here are actually amazing, it’s just the bulk that is abysmally… mmm…how to be diplomatic???

But all in all, what do people who think washing their hands with soap is a waste of money (while clutching a LV baobao), who buy 50 000 NT worth of birdsnests to cure an acne problem, or who think they’d better spend more money on their boy’s education than their girl’s :fume: , have to do with my personal daily life??? I don’t hang out with them, I use as much soap as I want, I run my house like I intend! They make really fun stories to tell back home (I’m sure nobody believes me!!!) I try to concentrate on my hubby, his family and our close friends, and the bulk of muddy peasants can all well keep being what they are!!!

I imagine living in worse places, like countries that are trully xenophobic. At least here, it never got kicked out of a store/restaurant because I’m foreign. The people’s insults are a lack of education/manners/brains/awareness but they are not specially geared towards ME, they use the same backwardness to view their peers and they do tell each other they’re fat and all. I’m not considered a prostitute because I’m Western no matter how conservatively I dress (just fly 4 hours South-East from here and that’s what you get). I do get pointed at but it’s in curiosity, not in aggressivity (it IS annoying like heck but it could be worse). I never felt threatened or got any hostility from anybody in 6 years here.

I did go to Greece with the hubby last year and I was really surprised at the people’s reaction over there. We got all sorts of crazy looks, ppl didn’t point at us but I could feel a mild hostility. Maybe that was from being a mixed couple? I don’t know. I think ppl there are not used to see Chinese stray out of their tour groups and “steal” Western women!!! The best way I could describe their reaction, and I hope I’m wrong, is that Chinese are not “like us” kind of stuff. In my case, I’m not Greek but I still look European, so it’s fine, but a “yellow xeno”, naaa, that’s way inferior! I was disapointed at the place and it hurt me to see ppl’s reaction. :frowning:

All that being said: Planned departure date: after the 2008 CNY bonus is well landed in my bank account!

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Thanks for the link. It is actually: www.pigsofgod.org Please visit and sign their petition if you are against that cruel and backwards practice. If, lucky you, don’t know what a “pig of god” is, please stop eating that bowl of ramen and click on the link!

I knew about the practice (even saw one already dead and parading in Northern Taiwan) but I’m reassured to see some local people are against it and are taking action!
:bravo:

It’s not all that hopeless!!!

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Ooops!

I signed the petition and got this response:

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In other words, it’s like New York. Only with fewer gun deaths.

It could be worse, as Liz_Taipei says, ‘I imagine living in worse places, like countries that are trully xenophobic’, places undoubtedly populated by people who refer to ethnic groups they don’t like as ‘muddy peasants’.

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[quote=“Liz_Taipei”]
I did go to Greece with the hubby last year and I was really surprised at the people’s reaction over there. We got all sorts of crazy looks, people didn’t point at us but I could feel a mild hostility. [/quote]

I have a lot of Greek friends. Understand… they give EVERYONE crazy looks. I think it’s because they’re a little crazy themselves.

And talk about xenophobia… “real” Greeks discriminate against my friend’s dad because he comes from an Italian family that came to Greece … over 500 hundred years ago. So unless, you’re the direct descendent of Hercules, the Greeks are going to look at you funny.

Just say:

Sto Arxidia Mou (and grab your crotch)

(actually, that will provoke a fight, so don’t)

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Not all Greeks are like that (my Greek mates back in Australia aren’t), but you’re right that a lot of them are. And don’t even get the Greeks started on the subject of the Macedonians (or vice versa). In Australia they’re unfortunately still fighting a war they should have had done with over 2,000 years ago. It’s really nonsense. It’s too late to change history. Philip I of Macedon and Alexander the Great trounced the Greeks, and they need to get over it and move on.

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Its understanding the intricacies that leads to the real criticism.

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Well I do speak Chinese. And I do understand the culture. And the only reason you don’t see my post is because it got floundered.
I find that the more Chinese I speak (/ understand) the more I hate this place. You can think the people are pleasant when you don’t hear the rude shit they say about you assuming you don’t understand. And the more I understand the culture the more I wish I had never bothered.

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Yep, SuchaFob, this is what runs through my mind 85% of the time!!! Why cram my head with tons of characters only to be disapointed like that? What a pity!!!

I did find a use for that::: independent traveling in China. That’s dead cool!!! Would really recommend it to bring back your love for the Chinese in general!!!

It’s really nice to communicate with Chinese people, no matter how “deep” they are. I have great experiences every time I go there and if not for the dire salaries, I’d be living there in a wink. So that’s one great use for all these efforts!!! Maybe I was lucky or everything seemed nice because it was new, but China (Beijing, and YunNan mostly) is great and I met fascinating people who talked to me like I was a normal person and could see past the “wai guo ren” shadow. OK, they do spit and have rude manners in general, but here is not paradise either! Again, I’m not living there and specially not working with them. From a business point of view, my hubby and I import stuff from China and we pray Guang Zong (biz god, forgot the spelling) before we open every shipment as there is often a surprise…

And interesting enough, even in the deepest I’ve been in China (not that deep, but still deeper than any place in Taiwan for the development, access to technology, level of education (heck, the little red book is still seen in class), etc.): nobody ever asked to touch my hair/skin/nose like in Taiwan (I’m not even making this up!!!), nobody made rude comments about me while I was around, and they could easily understand my Chinese without giving me this obnoxious blank stare I often get here when ppl are so sure they won’t understand me that they freeze.

OK, before I book a one-way ticket to Beijing right away, back to Taiwan::: I have to admit I’m trully ambivalent about our dear island… Like what you wrote, I just wish I didn’t bothered and headed straight for another country long time ago (or skipped learning the language), but again, as I was riding my bike along the river path down in Tamshui this morning, gosh, I couldn’t help but being happy. It’s downright gorgeous, with the river, the mountains, the birds, all in all a safe environment (I wouldn’t cycle/walk down isolated paths like these in most big cities, way too dangerous). Most people I came accross glanced twice (white (red faced from the exercise) elephant on a bike, that ought to be funny) but then nodded or smiled back. They were probably just surprised to see a laowai stray away from downtown!!!

Well, the point was that I guess lifestyle wins over annoyances, however numerous they might be!!! But knowing when we’re leaving make living here soooooo much nicer.

Sorry about the guy who started this thread, rahimiiii who seems to be stuck here. Wish you can make the best out of it and your guitars are really cool!!!