One party, two systems? The whole notion is so vague that it could be argued either way, if people are willing to argue past each other. In such instances, where judging a proposition on its intrinsic merit is unfeasible, it makes sense to look at what sort of people you find on each side.
Is there anyone out there arguing for One China who is not utterly contemptible? If not, is there any reason to think it likely that something desirable hides behind this cloud of rhetoric? The sort of people who are pushing it so hard have an agenda, or they wouldn’t bother. Can we guess what it might be?
It all comes down to trust. And trust comes down to trustworthiness. Does anyone support the 1992 conwhatever you would want to babysit your kids?
I’ve been away a long time, but even when I was in TW, I never once met a Taiwanese person, in my limited social circles, who actually believed their life or identity was in any way related to China. So I imagine Taiwan national identity has only gotten stronger in the intervening years.
Would be curious if anyone living in Taiwan actually knows an actual person that believes that they are actually Chinese living in the province of Taiwan and is awaiting the liberation of the island from the capitalist roaders. I mean, you see it constantly in the news, and of course there may be people from the older generation who believe it. But let’s say anyone under 50 years old who wasn’t a soldier fleeing communists and came to Taiwan with the KMT. Has anyone actually met an actual China-identifying person born and raised in Taiwan?
It just strikes me as a fictionalized strawman to me created by the media and the political parties. But for all practical purposes, the issue of Taiwan national identity is settled and probably has been for some time.
[quote=“Teddoman”]I’ve been away a long time, but even when I was in TW, I never once met a Taiwanese person, in my limited social circles, who actually believed their life or identity was in any way related to China. So I imagine Taiwan national identity has only gotten stronger in the intervening years.
Would be curious if anyone living in Taiwan actually knows an actual person that believes that they are actually Chinese living in the province of Taiwan and is awaiting the liberation of the island from the capitalist roaders. I mean, you see it constantly in the news, and of course there may be people from the older generation who believe it. But let’s say anyone under 50 years old who wasn’t a soldier fleeing communists and came to Taiwan with the KMT. Has anyone actually met an actual China-identifying person born and raised in Taiwan?
It just strikes me as a fictionalized strawman to me created by the media and the political parties. But for all practical purposes, the issue of Taiwan national identity is settled and probably has been for some time.[/quote]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.
[quote=“OrangeOrganics”]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.[/quote]
In Chinese culture, a lot of things that would be straightforward in the West are nuanced and complicated. In Taiwan, being Chinese is complicated.
When my Taiwan friends speak of Chinese people, it’s always in the third person, and always disparagingly.
[quote=“rowland”][quote=“OrangeOrganics”]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.[/quote]
In Chinese culture, a lot of things that would be straightforward in the West are nuanced and complicated. In Taiwan, being Chinese is complicated.
When my Taiwan friends speak of Chinese people, it’s always in the third person, and always disparagingly.[/quote]
And because we all know that Taiwanese are morally and culturally superior to Mainland Chinese, your Taiwanese have every right to do so !
[quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“rowland”][quote=“OrangeOrganics”]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.[/quote]
In Chinese culture, a lot of things that would be straightforward in the West are nuanced and complicated. In Taiwan, being Chinese is complicated.
When my Taiwan friends speak of Chinese people, it’s always in the third person, and always disparagingly.[/quote]
And because we all know that Taiwanese are morally and culturally superior to Mainland Chinese, your Taiwanese have every right to do so !
(hint: sarcasm)[/quote]
But Taiwanese kind of are morally and culturally superior to mainland Chinese. There was no Cultural Revolution in Taiwan, that alone ensures a degree of superiority.
[quote=“rowland”][quote=“OrangeOrganics”]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.[/quote]
In Chinese culture, a lot of things that would be straightforward in the West are nuanced and complicated. In Taiwan, being Chinese is complicated.
When my Taiwan friends speak of Chinese people, it’s always in the third person, and always disparagingly.[/quote]
Basically this, extremely nuanced. Which is the reason i dont like those annual identity surveys ( Are you Taiwanese/Chinese etc ). I personally found that only extreme fringes want to completely reject Chinese identity.
[quote=“OrangeOrganics”][quote=“rowland”][quote=“OrangeOrganics”]
Loads and loads, if not most people in Taiwan identify as being culturally Chinese. Hardly anyone identifies as politically Chinese.[/quote]
In Chinese culture, a lot of things that would be straightforward in the West are nuanced and complicated. In Taiwan, being Chinese is complicated.
When my Taiwan friends speak of Chinese people, it’s always in the third person, and always disparagingly.[/quote]
Basically this, extremely nuanced. Which is the reason I don’t like those annual identity surveys ( Are you Taiwanese/Chinese etc ). I personally found that only extreme fringes want to completely reject Chinese identity.[/quote]
But isn’t the type of Chinese identity that Taiwanese people accept a sort of non-political Chinese cultural identity based on actual shared history? Taiwanese understand and accept their origin story (which for all in Taiwan with perhaps exception of aboriginals starts in mainland China.)
Kind of like the American acceptance of its revolutionary origin story that starts with the British colonies. Americans have strong ties to Anglo culture, American political and legal theory comes out of the British tradition, but as a political matter, Americans completely reject any current British political identity.
[quote=“hsinhai78”]And because we all know that Taiwanese are morally and culturally superior to Mainland Chinese
(hint: sarcasm)[/quote]Why the sarcasm? In general terms, your statement is true. No sarcasm needed.