There is a case right now in taichung where a teacher has been fired from his job, and had some pay docked. After trying many routes to solve the problem (including the CLA labor board), he was still without his money. He decided to open a lawsuit aginst the school for unlawful dismissal. (he refused to take on some extra work). When that failed he resorted to obtaining pictures of a new teacher he didn’t know and using them in conjunction with his own picture to push the school to pay. The result, he was thanked for providing evidence of an english kindergarten being illegally taught by foriegners, let off for his own transgressions, the new guy deported and gone within days barred from returning for 3 years.
After talking to this person who has been in taiwan and has done that very job i was shocked to find out the he really thought that it was the proper thing to do. The new guy who was in love with his taiwanese girl, in a gigging rock band, living with his best friend after being years apart. heart broken, band split, friends wrenched apart. the guy is on the plane today to go and live jobless with his parents.
There are times when a guy can be really pissed at his school. But implicating a fellow foriegner! :fume: That really burns me up! (been here for 11 years never heard that one)We have a moral responsibility to think before we ruin lives. Sure the guys not off to the hangman or anything but the rat told me that he intentionally didn’t give the guy a heads up because he thought it would help his case :fume:
Question: DOES THIS GUY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PULL THIS???
That’s how it works. Keep your affairs in order. Don’t work illegally. The guy who did the ratting presumably also had things to keep him in Taiwan. And presumably WASN’T illegal. And if he was, well, bidness is bidness. Look after number one.
And what the HELL is with this “fellow foreigner” garbage? I have several friends who are foreigners. I also know of FAR more foreigners who I wouldn’t give the steam off of my piss. “Fellow foreigners” indeed!
aooga -
Yeah…what Sandy said about that “fellow foreigner” shit. Most wouldn’t cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire. Act accordingly.
While I may well think the ratbag is a POS for doing what he did, if anyone is going to bust his nut it can only be the person he ratted on. Unless that person owed you money, and because of his expulsion he cannot and will not repay you the money, don’t feel that this gives you free hand in cleaning his clock - but thats another matter.
While I wouldn’t trust the ratbag and certainly wouldn’t associate with him, retaliation would not be ‘fair’ on your part. Its not in your provenance to do so.
Although making everyone he came in contact with aware of what a walking piece of shit he appears to be is fair play.
Bottom line is, in case you haven’t been paying attention - DON’T BREAK THE RULES.
You leave yourself open for manipulation by those who know the game better than you…
I, for one, agree with the sentiment expressed by OP. We are all members of a minority group here. We have similar experiences and, often, similar problems. Those on JFRV and PARC may be somewhat immune to the pitfalls that may await a teacher in a kindy but even those lucky ducks have problems with debit cards/ credit cards, vehicle registration and employment barriers. Simply put: since we all face common obstacles, we have a common cause. It’s immoral to willingly harm another by making another foreigner subject to the arbitrariness of the laws here, such as they often apply to us. Anyone who does so is a first class asshole.
How about if he ratted out a non-foreigner?
What the HELL do I have in common with some 20-something Canookistanian or Yank or whatever? Its SUCH a weird concept – whiteys against the yellow horde. Kind of disgusting, in fact, IMO. I have FAR more Taiwanese than foreign friends.
That said, yeah, he sounds like a stoolie, but there again, if it comes down to some stranger or me getting kicked out, I know which option I’d choose. And most of you, too.
[quote=“sandman”]How about if he ratted out a non-foreigner?
[/quote]
Its a shitty thing to do to anyone, for once though I’m in complete agreement with TC. Have nothing to do with the guy, let people know what he did, but draw the line there.
If I were teaching illegally at that school, I’d be wondering if the guy was coming back. His plan to get back at the school was successful. Why not have another go? They docked his pay because he wouldn’t take more hours? Eat me. Then they fired him? Double eat me.
And how interesting that the FA Police were willing to make a trade off…how very interesting…
It was a dick move, but as dick moves go… :bravo:
your friend was sort of like this I think:
never knew what hit him…but hey, how many times do these numbskulls need to be told that teaching at kindies is illegal and hey, guess what, you can get deported for it…for real.
[quote=“sandman”]
What the HELL do I have in common with some Canookistanian or Yank or whatever? Its SUCH a weird concept – whiteys against the yellow horde. Kind of disgusting, in fact, IMO. I have FAR more Taiwanese than foreign friends.
.[/quote]
Wow, sounds like you’re competing for something here. What, do you want a medal? “Most Taiwanese Friends”? Congrats, we’re all real proud of you and your friend-making ability. How about you just make friends with people you get along with and stop generalizing. In fact, your generalization of “whiteys” is laughable, because you’re lumping a whole group of people together- exactly what it seems like you’re against in so far as treatment of Taiwanese. How do you know you have nothing in common with them? Discrimination goes both ways.
Am I the only one who is sick of stuck-up ex-pats who have been here a few years acting like they’re better than every other foreign face out there?
In case the deported guy’s girlfriend is ‘connected’ or has friends that are ‘connected’ … He should move far away from the place he’s done his ratting …
Better than? Learn to read, kid. “Nothing in common” does not read “better than” in ANY language. I’m a middle-aged Brit who has lived here for most of my adult life. I indeed have NOTHING in common with some 20-something wrong-side of the ponder.
And also, its not MY “generalization of whiteys” – that’s Toasty’s idea – that white-skinned people should stick together for some weird reason that escapes me.
I stick with my friends, not strangers whose only claim to fame is that they have the same colour of skin as me.
That’s all.
Well, you can say that you hate “stuck up foreigners who have been here a long time”, but after you’re in Taiwan a couple of years, you get sick of the stuck-up newbies who won’t look another white person in the eye once they get out of the airport arrivals lounge lest they contaminate their exotic Asian experience (or slow down their year-long process of becoming totally fluent in Chinese so as to get a great job back home, but I digress. )
I’m not saying that makes them worthy targets to be ratted-out, but it does reduce one’s level of sympathy for them. Common courtesy goes a long ways towards building cameraderie, and a substantial number of newbies are very short on it.
Come on; we all know the stereotypes about newbies and oldbies.
Moving to the other side of the world for whatever stupid reason attracts arseholes, misfits, losers, the mad, the criminal, the addicted, and the terminally stupid and immature with no accurate sense of risk assessment. You’re 20 something, and working illegally, and performing in a band in public (also illegal without open work rights) then you have drawn a target on your head. You also meet people you wouldn’t dream of associating with in your home country, simply because they speak English.
[quote=“Buttercup”]and performing in a band in public (also illegal without open work rights)[/quote]Excellent point. :bravo: And it might be important to add that it doesn’t matter whether they’re doing it for monetary gains or not.
[quote=“sandman”]“generalization of whiteys” – that’s Toasty’s idea – that white-skinned people should stick together for some weird reason that escapes me.
I stick with my friends, not strangers whose only claim to fame is that they have the same colour of skin as me.
That’s all.[/quote]
Erm, no. Not what I said or believe at all.
I believe that all foreign nationals here (not white-only) have certain common interests, yes. When you get refused for some mundane thing for an arbitrary reason, you are in the same boat as “colonials” or whatever smug term you wish to apply to your fellow human. In the eyes of the law here, you are no different than any other foreigner.
However, the main crux of my argument is that taking an unnecessary action that can negatively affect someone’s livelihood, residency rights and ties to a country is wrong-- and the action of a true asshole. It doesn’t matter who you do it to, but it sure isn’t better when it’s done to someone similarly legally disadvantaged in this place as yourself.
A better way to handle the school would have been to just get all the photos and docs ready, show it to them, tell the guy what you were going to do, and make the school do what you want. If the school was really in the wrong, that is.
Not very nice to actually DO IT. However, you could be doing the guy a favor by letting him know that this is what could happen.
Screaming bloody murder like a madman usually works. They’ll do anything just to get rid of you.
[quote=“aooga”]There is a case right now in taichung where a teacher has been fired from his job, and had some pay docked. After trying many routes to solve the problem (including the CLA labor board), he was still without his money. He decided to open a lawsuit aginst the school for unlawful dismissal. (he refused to take on some extra work). When that failed he resorted to obtaining pictures of a new teacher he didn’t know and using them in conjunction with his own picture to push the school to pay. The result, he was thanked for providing evidence of an english kindergarten being illegally taught by foriegners, let off for his own transgressions, the new guy deported and gone within days barred from returning for 3 years.[/quote]Please provide some clarification.
I’m a bit confused with what you wrote. Here’s what I understood. Please correct me if I’m wrong on any points.
There is a foreign English teacher (teacher A) in Taichung who was recently fired from his job by his school. The reason for being fired was his refusal to take on extra work. Was that additional work paid, or expected to be performed without additional pay? Probably irrelevant as it pertains to the main point of the story, right? In addition to being fired, the school deducted some of his final pay based on some contractual agreement, a fine for failure to complete the contract for example. (Which by the way IS actually illegal)
He felt his dismissal was unjustified, as well as having his final pay garnished so he made an official complaint to the CLA in order to assist him in recouping his deducted wages. His attempts at arbitration failed and he was unable to get reinstated, and he was unable to get back any of his money that was illegally deducted from his final pay. How do you know that he actually consulted with the CLA? Proof?
Since friendly arbitration with the CLA failed to secure his desired outcome, he decided to file a full out lawsuit against his former employer. Did he get an attorney? Did he actually file a legal complaint in a court of law? Is there any litigation pending? How do you know that there really is a lawsuit? Proof?
He went and took photographs of another foreign English teacher (teacher B) illegally teaching a kindergarten English class at his former school. He didn’t know who teacher B was and had never met him before. He just wanted to get evidence that his former school was allowing foreigners to illegally teach kindergarten English classes. It was most likely his intent to use these pictures to threaten his former school to pony up the dough they garnished.
Here’s where it gets really confusing. You said,
[quote=“aooga”]and using them in conjunction with his own picture to push the school to pay.[/quote]How would he use the pictures he took of teacher B in conjunction with his own pictures? What pictures of himself would help his case? Certainly not pictures showing himself teaching kindergarten illegally.
Then you said,
[quote=“aooga”]The result, he was thanked for providing evidence of an english kindergarten being illegally taught by foriegners, let off for his own transgressions, the new guy deported and gone within days barred from returning for 3 years.[/quote]Who was he thanked by? Who did he turn the pictures into? The foreign affairs police? The NIA? I thought he was going to use the pictures of teacher B illegally teaching in order to threaten his former school into coughing up some dough. He didn’t show the pictures to his former school? How was he let off for his own transgressions? What were his own transgressions? Did he admit to the authorities clearly that he too had illegally taught English at that school’s kindergarten? Are you alleging that the authorities know that both teacher A and teacher B were at some point illegally teaching at that school’s kindergarten, and because teacher A turned in teacher B, the authorities let teacher A off scott free for being a stoolie and they went ahead and processed teacher B for deportation and a 3 year ban from Taiwan?
Did teacher A get his job reinstated? Did he end up getting his illegally garnished money back from his former school? What’s he doing now if not working for his old school?
Lastly, how did you come by all this information regarding teacher A? Were you with him when he went to the CLA for arbitration? Did you see any paperwork regarding his arbitration? Are you certain he went for arbitration? Have you seen any legal documents regarding a lawsuit? Was there ever a lawsuit?
Teacher A actually admitted to you personally that he [color=#FF0000]grassed up [/color]teacher B?
Damn! For a surfing dude you sure are a spoilsport! Why can’t you just let the wave that is the flob court of public opinion curl and break? Get in that barrel, boy! RIDE that fucker!
There’s thousands and thousands of gallons of aggrieved outrage just WAITING to be tapped here.
This is pure gold. I’ve been shitting myself laughing.
[quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“sandman”]Damn! For a surfing dude you sure are a spoilsport! Why can’t you just let the wave that is the flob court of public opinion curl and break? Get in that barrel, boy! RIDE that fucker!
There’s thousands and thousands of gallons of aggrieved outrage just WAITING to be tapped here.[/quote]You for one have already skillfully pushed Alishamichelle’s buttons. She’s been a member since October 18, 2009, but it took your gentle comments and opinions to give her the impetus to come out of her shell to make her first posting ever on the FLOB! Well done Syndrome…I mean Sandman! :bravo: [/quote]
You think that’s impressive? What about the OP? The dude has three stars under his name with a mere three posts! And even more impressive is that he’s spawned a thread that’s highly contentious and got all the old hens bickering.
btw, I’d piss on TC if he was on fire. I’d even cross the street.
As crap as the rats behavior was, who hasn’t thought about doing this before? It’s crossed my mind once or twice, although I guess there’s a difference between thinking about something and actually doing it…
As tempting as it is in some cases (there are some real rat bastards around down here), it’s not something I would do. I’m more of a karma kind of guy. What goes around comes around, and all that. And if I had NT$1 for every newb who’s said, “Kindy? The school always warns us before the cops come. Besides, everyone does it.” before crying their guts out six months later because they’re being deported, I would have enough dosh to buy Tainan county.
For folks who want “all the legally disadvantaged” to “stand together”, they should consider that if every single foreign teacher refused to teach kindy because it’s illegal, then perhaps the outcry that would follow from laobans and parents alike would lead to a change in the law. Until then, as shit as the rat teacher’s behaviour was, I don’t want to hear sob stories about kindy teacher deportations.
It’s illegal ffs. How hard is it to get that through their thick skulls?
I have several friends who are foreigners. I also know of FAR more foreigners who I wouldn’t give the steam off of my piss. “Fellow foreigners” indeed!
)
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