He’s still reeling from the traumatizing equivalent reddit thread.
How can you make that claim when actually, it is the other way around.
Taiwanese people will speak English even when their English is worse than the foreigner’s Chinese.
Also, the OP did not demand/expect anyone to speak English. It was Peter who felt entitled dictating everyone what language to speak.
RunningTaipei - If people aren’t complaining, then I withdraw my statement. But what I see in this thread is people calling Peter a douche for suggesting the Taiwanese should revert to Chinese after 2 hours of speaking English for OP’s benefit. OP’s new, I get it. What I am more stunned at is the amazing amount of privilege this situation shows. We all know that a reverse situation would never happen in the US in that almost no social gathering would ever switch to a foreign language for 2 hours for the sake of one foreign guest. And if it did happen, I would think that the natural reaction of the foreign guest would be to appreciate how hard everyone tried to include me for 2 hours, and recognize that using a foreign language for so long probably meant that everyone else was holding back on and altering their discussion and interaction for the foreigner’s sake. I’d also note that Taiwanese only treat White (English-speaking) foreigners in such a high manner, I’ve never heard about a bunch of Taiwanese speaking Bahasa or Tagalog or Thai for 2 hours to accommodate a single guest.
I don’t know what "douche"like ABC behaviors you are referring to, but all I’ve seen in this thread is an ABC pointing out to Taiwanese how obsequious and accommodating they are being to white Westerner in a fashion that is not reciprocated in the US, and a white Westerner upset about losing a little bit of his privilege (but still having a dedicated translator helping out for the rest of the evening, because we all know that happens in the US all the time). Peter is acting like an American/Westerner in that he is being blunt, direct and not wanting to fawn over someone because of a privileged racial status, and the OP (and the responses) comes across as a Westerner being butthurt he doesn’t get special treatment and privileged status from Gunga Din.
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Yeah, I have the same experience with lots of Taiwanese and Chinese people speaking English with foreigners (as an ABC, I include myself as a foreigner for these purposes) even when the foreigner’s Chinese is better. However, those interactions are usually short term and/or commercial (asking for directions, placing an order, chatting on the morning commute). Like others, I am surprised that a Taiwanese social function could have gone on for 2-hours in English. I suspect it was lost on OP, but I imagine the use of English meant that for many of the other party attendees, their discussion was stilted, limited and somewhat unnatural.
Unless he is Peter Chiang Kai-shek, I don’t see how Peter could “dictate” the language that anyone speaks. Peter probably recognized that the party conversation had become difficult and unnatural after 2 hours in English and gave the Taiwanese attendees the excuse they wanted to switch back to Chinese. If any of the attendees wanted to keep speaking in English, they could have chosen to do so. If OP’s lady friend wanted to speak in English (aside from providing the simultaneous translation) she could have done so as well. That none of the Taiwanese seem to have done so suggests to me that they were probably relieved to be able to quit speaking English after so long as well.
people are not calling peter a douch because he relieved a bunch of locals from the hassle of speaking english for one persons benefit. people are calling him a douch because he basically took it upon himself to publicly make the white guy an outsider. and create a problem where there was none.
and lets make it clear there was no privilege here. taiwanese were speaking english for his and their own benefit. the only guy who had a problem with it was the abc.
as far as the story goes this white guy didn’t declare that everyone had to speak english, they did it out of their own free will, they were getting some benefit, and nobody has suggested this guy shouldn’t learn chinese. i don’t see the problem.
and what are you on about? taiwanese learn english in school, they don’t learn thai or tagalog. its a nonsense comparison. same goes for america where people wouldn’t be able to switch to a second language. now if you changed the OP from a white westerner to someone from a non western country and he was using english and the whole group didnt switch to english in the same way they did for a white westerner then you might have something to back up your argument of privilege. but even then it would be tricky as they wouldn’t be getting the same benefit from coversing in english with a non native as they would a native.
There’s a lot of missing information in the story. Maybe this was the case. But what I would expect in that situation is that people switch languages a lot.
The information we have is that apparently there was an explicit “no more English” moment, which is rude and unnecessary. Even if Peter can’t dictate anything, this did set the tone and forced people into an agreement that they then may not have felt comfortable to violate.
Everyone is filling in little bits of information to complete the story, and you can’t blame people for doing it from their perspective.
Just as well, you’re painting OP as some over-privileged guy who is outraged at the insult, so you can project your own opinions on the situation. Then you’re angry that people don’t share your opinion. The problem is that lack of information and what you insert in those blank spaces, and while I understand some of your points, the way you do insert that information makes you seem biased and holding a grudge against other white people for whatever reason.
I’ve never heard about a bunch of Taiwanese speaking Bahasa or Tagalog or Thai for 2 hours to accommodate a single guest.
So? Do you suggest that all foreigners should be treated with the same racist disrespect (not to mention how those situations aren’t remotely the same, with English being an international language everyone is learning or aspiring to learn)?
I think the situation would be largely the same - the benefit is improving your English language skills, and those are in demand pretty much everywhere.
I can see this situation happening in a country in Europe, and if people simply stopped speaking English at some point, that would be very weird and an obvious affront (that doesn’t mean they would only speak English of course, but to be fair, we don’t have that level of detail on OP’s situation either).
The OP perceives there was “no problem” when everyone was speaking English, but I think we can all agree that unless it was an amazingly cosmopolitan group of Taiwanese the reality is that using 2 hours of English was impacting their ability to communicate socially.
Of course there was privilege here (the privileged never see it, they think their advantages are natural). If the Taiwanese were speaking English for their benefit, they would have continued to do so irrespective of whatever the ABC said. That the OP’s own friend also seems to have continued the discussion in Chinese (and didn’t leave if the host was truly being rude to her friend/guest) seems very telling to me.
People at the party freely spoke English, and then they freely spoke Chinese. I don’t see what the OP’s problem is either. One other person at the party suggested they speak Chinese after two hours and the other party guests chose to do so out of their own free will as well. If the Taiwanese could truly speak English well for 2-hours, I question their need for “conversational” practice with a foreigner (they weren’t getting anything out of it).
Regarding your comment that Taiwanese don’t learn Thai/Tagalog, that is a fair point. English is the international lingua franca (and not withstanding my argumentativeness on this thread, I for one am grateful for it as I’ve been able to bluster my way through many foreign countries because of it!). But many Americans learn Spanish and French in school the way Taiwanese learn English, and I’ve never seen any social event in the US where Americans of various backgrounds tried to use their school-learned Spanish and French for extended periods of times to accommodate a single guest.
i agree with you, but i’m not sure a taiwanese would think the same way. they do sometimes pay black and asian native english speakers less and all that so they might not view conversing with a native and non native in english at the same level.
as i have said it was not a case of privilege, but mutual benefit. but ok go ahead and ignore it again, why not.
impacting their ability to communicate does not stop them from enjoying the benefit of practicing english. theres a million examples of taiwanese insisting to speak english even when the laowai speaks chinese, i don’t need to go into detail we all know it happens.
and no they did not freely speak chinese, they did so when directed to by peter. what were they going to do after that, keep speaking in english and make peter lose face? he seemed to make a big deal about it bringing up his whole life story in america and all.
honestly i’m just going to say that any group that can speak a second language shouldn’t have a problem to switch. you are acting like westerners, if they had the ability to do so would simply choose not to just to stick it in the asian guys face. i don’t believe that.
Sure, I recognize we are all filling in facts from our own perspectives and I don’t blame anyone. For most of the posters here, the perspective seems to be “Peter is a douche” and “ABCs are butthurt.” I know I am not going to change anyone’s view on that, but I am suggesting that another view is that “The OP is over privileged and getting butthurt when he is being treated less like a Raj and more like how non-White minorities and foreigners are treated in the US.”
I will acknowledge my own biases - but to call me “angry” because others don’t share my opinion is part of the very issue I am addressing. The strongest language I have used in this thread is “butthurt” (or “privileged”) and only after other posters started using it with respect to ABCs. People can interpret my view as biased or however they like, but I challenge anyone to read this thread and note the comments about ABCs being “butthurt”, “douches” “chip on the shoulder” and “Daddy’s money” and not conclude that other posters are showing much stronger bias against ABCs. I think the weight of the insulting language clearly falls on the white Westerners in this thread . . . and of course the view that I am “biased” for calling people on it and suggesting another viewpoint is unsurprising (what do you think it means to say that ABCs and minorities have a “chip on their shoulder.”)
I would call for everyone to treat each other with respect. But Taiwanese speaking English for a Westerner for 2 hours, having a girl invite you to a party and then translate for you all evening aren’t examples of privilege that virtually no one else in the world gets (and which Americans certainly don’t show to Taiwanese or virtually any foreigners) . . . goes far beyond respect and are examples of privilege which I would imagine the OP should be happy about and not get resentful about the host’s comments.
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I did respond, you simply ignored the information that you didn’t agree with. If it was “mutual benefit” then the Taiwanese would have continued to speak English. Speaking English for 10-30 minutes is typical for Taiwanese and reflects the annoying “testing” of English we all are aware of; speaking English for 2 hours is much more unusual.
You can call it “directed” by Peter (or refer to “saving face” because, hey Asian people are authoritarian, obey hierarchy, and are bound by “face”) or consider that they may have not found much benefit in speaking English for so long. I mentioned all this in my previous thread too, “but ok go ahead and ignore it again, why not”.
I am a multi-lingual Westerner, albeit non-White. I know other multi-lingual Westerners as well. We might try to speak a non-English language for a while to show hospitality to foreign guest, but after 2 hours I’d be very grateful if someone suggested we switch to English (heck, I’d have switched long before) because my communications skills in other languages just isn’t nearly as good as my English and there is only so long one can talk about basic conversational stuff. And if the guest hadn’t perhaps picked up and said something like “please don’t feel like you all need to speak my preferred language for my benefit” somewhere in the evening, I’d question the guest’s manners.
I can’t be a hundred percent sure of it, but I think that’s what I would have done, but probably mainly for another reason, or other reasons, than the one cited immediately above.
I’m not making a distinction there, some people here do seem to have a bias against ABCs. It’s the anecdotal / personal experience aspect that should really be ignored in such discussion because it’s not representative, but in practice this is an unrealistic expectation. People just do that, and most aren’t aware of the more or less subtle irrational beliefs and little lies embedded into their thought process.
I probably addressed your bias because I feel it would affect me - as always, most people are interested in themselves. I would not like to be seen in the light you see OP in, but I do fall into the category of having been in Taiwan for quite a few months and not having learned the language properly. Then again, while I don’t expect anyone to speak English or judge people for not being able to, I obviously will try to communicate in English because that’s all I have for now, and I might make a face if it doesn’t work (because I’m struggling to get stuff done, not as a sign of disapproval). Some people appear to believe that I have no business being here and that I should leave because I can’t communicate in Chinese yet.
Likewise, I extrapolated when I said you’re angry. I’ve read a bunch of comments here and on reddit expressing your viewpoint, and some clearly showed signs of frustration and went on to lash out in a xenophobic way.
We’re all just interacting with a bunch of paragraphs on a screen, and mentally merging information from various sources is how at least I process the sheer amount of it. Obviously you lose some details here and there, and on the other end of the paragraphs you have the individual. The “angry” part was not really directed at you personally.
Well that’s mysterious.
Years and years and hundreds of situations later it’s not hard to fill in the gaps these things take virtually the same form again and again very predictable I can play out the OP’s scene in my head down to the frame.
I’d fire the lot of them. The locals for not doing whatever they want - obviously a bunch of locals chillin in their down time should be speaking Chinese and have the sense of self to switch whenever they want, and let those who prefer to speak English go for it, this is not uncommon, it’s personal choice. The ABC host for not letting things flow naturally, by bringing it up and making a “thing” out of it. And finally the OP for his cultural naivety which I"m sure he is working on after thoroughly studying this thread 
OP, take advantage of it. It’s hard enough to speak Chinese with Taiwanese (especially if they can speak English). I am repeating myself when I suggest that you use it as an opportunity to learn Chinese, especially if you’re here for a while.
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no thats not the case, they were doing it by choice until peter brought up his life story about how america is so racist towards asian people. honestly its ridiculous to think they would keep talking for 2 hours if they didn’t like it or didn’t have the ability. as far as we know the white guy did nothing to make people speak english, accept the reality mate, they did it by themselves.
i’ve been in this situation a bunch of times in different countrys. if people don’t wanna speak english they ain’t gonna speak english. they won’t get stuck speaking it for 2 hours… and likewise if they can speak it no problem they have no problem switching of their own free will. my guess is they were pretty good and comfortable with english. the only time i’ve had a group speak english to me here, and it wasn’t really a group it was 2 guys from the group, the others were just listening. was when they were all hammered.
nobody really knows the details anyway so its impossible to say if this group had good english or they were really being held up at gun point to speak english so it was impossible for them to switch back. so its largely a pointless discussion. i still conclude the same thing about peter though.
Forget it, man. He’s got a plate in his head from the Drug Wars and, given that it’s after 12 noon, he’s probably drunk AF.
Strngr - fair enough. People will have their biases and approach everything from a personal and experience based viewpoint. I agree that we are all trying to extrapolate a situation from a few short sentences that the OP provides from his point of view. All we can do is provide our perspectives and let the OP pick for himself which view he thinks is correct and how he wants to deal with the situation going forward.
It is a shame there is so little positive interaction between ABCs and white Westerners in Taiwan. ABCs know what it is like to be a linguistic and racial minority and face various kinds of discrimination and stereotypes.