Not to say many are doing this but my last trip to Taiwan I met 2 teachers teaching without a arc, degrees, work permit, or anything.
The surprising thing is they both were doing this for more then 2 years and can only think they must be very lucky to have
not been caught, deported yet or have some great evasive skills. I want to wait for my arc to teach as I am scared to do so without it,
but in the meantime I sure could use an income
Many people here teach while “studying Chinese”. It’s not that uncommon.
These forums will make it sound like there are daily raids out to get illegal teachers. There aren’t and you’re likely to get away with it. But the consequences are very severe if you do get caught. And if you want to stay in Taiwan awhile it’s better to play it safe.
I do some subbing but I don’t definitely wouldn’t make a habit of working without a work permit.
These guys may not have been caught so far. That doesn’t mean their turn isn’t coming. I hear all the time of people who have been teaching here illegally and don’t worry about it too much. Just because it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean it won’t happen one day.
Unless they cause trouble or get seriously unlucky they almost certainly won’t get caught. By seriously unlucky I mean getting involved in a very, very bad accident or pissing someone with influence off. They probably won’t get deported until they decide they want to return home and walk into a police station to declare themselves illegal.
Illegal teachers work in the same town for years and nothing happens to them. It really isn’t that uncommon, especially with certain nationalities who find it difficult getting a work visa or doing visa runs. A mickey mouse industry gets mickey mouse regulations and enforcement.
Even more problems arise if you do it for an extended period of time. You can’t exactly report illegally earned income. When you finally decide to return home, the IRS or your country’s equivalent, might want to know how you’ve been surviving for the past few years.
Has anyone posting on here ever done it? It would be interesting to know what happens when you decide to give yourself up. My money would be on the following:
- Illegal teacher decides he finally wants to return home, so walks into police station and gives himself up.
- Police officers feign anger and hold teacher, possibly overnight, whilst grilling him about how he’s been surviving for the past x years.
- Teacher constantly repeats story that he has a private income and has been studying Chinese.
- Police give up and send teacher to airport, where he is expected to pay a 10,000NTD fine after going through immigration.
- Illegal teacher doesn’t bother paying fine and flies home.
- Illegal teacher is banned from reentering Taiwan for a period of time equal to the time he has overstayed. If he returns he will also have to pay the 10k fine.
- Illegal teacher couldn’t give a fuck because he has no intention of returning.
Is that a pretty accurate guess?
Let’s not forget, as well, that all of these illegal teachers are knowingly employed by Taiwanese buxiban owners who pay them cash in hand.
[quote=“tomthorne”]Has anyone posting on here ever done it? It would be interesting to know what happens when you decide to give yourself up. My money would be on the following:
- Illegal teacher decides he finally wants to return home, so walks into police station and gives himself up.
- Police officers feign anger and hold teacher, possibly overnight, whilst grilling him about how he’s been surviving for the past x years.
- Teacher constantly repeats story that he has a private income and has been studying Chinese.
- Police give up and send teacher to airport, where he is expected to pay a 10,000NTD fine after going through immigration.
- Illegal teacher doesn’t bother paying fine and flies home.
- Illegal teacher is banned from reentering Taiwan for a period of time equal to the time he has overstayed. If he returns he will also have to pay the 10k fine.
- Illegal teacher couldn’t give a fuck because he has no intention of returning.
Is that a pretty accurate guess?
Let’s not forget, as well, that all of these illegal teachers are knowingly employed by Taiwanese buxiban owners who pay them cash in hand.[/quote]
But what would be the point of giving yourself up? There’s nothing stopping you from just leaving. Unless you’re trying to get some documentation showing your income so you won’t get in trouble back home, but that would mean paying all the back taxes you owe to the Taiwanese government.
Would they even care? If you’re not living in your home country, then there’s not really much they could do about it regardless of whether your money is legally or illegally earned. Last time I filed tax in my home country (in 2002 I think), I simply declared myself no longer a resident for tax purposes on the tax form. There’s no reason for them to ask me nor obligation for me to tell them for as long as I’m not living in Aust. The Taiwan tax office might be a different story though.
I know a friend who didn’t even graduate highschool who has been teaching in Taiwan since 2001. He got married around 2005 so I guess that changed his visa status, but before that I believe he had a 5 year multi-entry visa.
[quote=“cfimages”]
Would they even care? If you’re not living in your home country, then there’s not really much they could do about it regardless of whether your money is legally or illegally earned. Last time I filed tax in my home country (in 2002 I think), I simply declared myself no longer a resident for tax purposes on the tax form. There’s no reason for them to ask me nor obligation for me to tell them for as long as I’m not living in Aust. The Taiwan tax office might be a different story though.[/quote]
I’m not sure about other countries, but the US government definitely does care. You have to file US taxes regardless of whether your income is foreign or domestic. If the IRS decides to audit you, then you need to provide proof of what you were doing. They also require you to report all savings or investments over US$10,000; even if it’s in foreign banks. There are strict penalties if you fail to do so. On another note, I know of a Canadian that had to leave the country in a hurry because of some legal problems. The Canadian tax service wanted to see proof of his tax statements. Since he couldn’t ask the Taiwanese government for copies, he had to pay a huge fine in Canada.
Bit of confusion here? Have you over stayed your visa? If you haven’t? Then who knows what you have done. Just go home.
Now… are you saying you’ve been caught teaching illegally? Then your in trouble… maybe.
Either way I’m not going to walk into a police station and tell them I’m doing something illegal.
If you’ve overstayed more than 30 days you have to pop into the cop shop, AFAIK. I might just be confused, though, it’s happened before 
. Also, the ‘rules’ do tend to be a tad fluid in Taiwan.
[quote=“chrisE30bm”]Not to say many are doing this but my last trip to Taiwan I met 2 teachers teaching without a arc, degrees, work permit, or anything.
The surprising thing is they both were doing this for more then 2 years and can only think they must be very lucky to have
not been caught, deported yet or have some great evasive skills. I want to wait for my arc to teach as I am scared to do so without it,
but in the meantime I sure could use an income[/quote]
You’re kind of discussing two very separate issues: 1) People who teach over the long term without work permits by using language class visa extensions and visa trips 2) working while your work permit/ARC is pending.
The first scenario used to happen a lot in Taiwan. When I first arrived in Taiwan, the ratio of legal/illegal teachers seemed almost 1:1. There used to be visa mill language schools close to Taipei main station where you would pay for “language classes” and get extensions on visitor visas. Of course, few actually attended any classes. Every so often, one would have to take visa trips. I’m told originally, ARCs weren’t common and virtually everyone taught here this way. Over time, though, the number of illegal teachers has fallen off dramatically-- if my perceptions count for much. Most of the language schools are gone and those that remain require at least 80% attendance from visa students. In my opinion, the illegal route wasn’t worth it back then, and it certainly isn’t now. If your work place was visited and you were caught, you were deported.
The second scenario is kind of a grey area, at least as far as I can tell, and one that many teachers find themselves in. Once a contract is signed and the work permit is pending it is still, strictly speaking, illegal to work. On the other hand, plenty of people do. A lot of schools will ask you to start work and many teachers would rather earn some pay as well. The amount of time you are “illegal” is actually very short and, I assume, the school has a case to back you up with if caught: The permit is pending. Personally, I haven’t heard of people booted under these circumstances, but deportations are a constant risk for those working solely on visitor visas (a dying breed if not already extinct).
[quote=“Naughtius”][quote=“cfimages”]
Would they even care? If you’re not living in your home country, then there’s not really much they could do about it regardless of whether your money is legally or illegally earned. Last time I filed tax in my home country (in 2002 I think), I simply declared myself no longer a resident for tax purposes on the tax form. There’s no reason for them to ask me nor obligation for me to tell them for as long as I’m not living in Aust. The Taiwan tax office might be a different story though.[/quote]
I’m not sure about other countries, but the US government definitely does care. You have to file US taxes regardless of whether your income is foreign or domestic. If the IRS decides to audit you, then you need to provide proof of what you were doing. They also require you to report all savings or investments over US$10,000; even if it’s in foreign banks. There are strict penalties if you fail to do so. On another note, I know of a Canadian that had to leave the country in a hurry because of some legal problems. The Canadian tax service wanted to see proof of his tax statements. Since he couldn’t ask the Taiwanese government for copies, he had to pay a huge fine in Canada.[/quote]
I know you have to file each year in the us - which incidentally is a ridiculous law - but if you declared a nominal amount or even nothing, wouldn’t they have to prove otherwise if they tried to fine you? I don’t see how they could show you were working if you aren’t on any books and it’s in another country.
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Naughtius”][quote=“cfimages”]
Would they even care? If you’re not living in your home country, then there’s not really much they could do about it regardless of whether your money is legally or illegally earned. Last time I filed tax in my home country (in 2002 I think), I simply declared myself no longer a resident for tax purposes on the tax form. There’s no reason for them to ask me nor obligation for me to tell them for as long as I’m not living in Aust. The Taiwan tax office might be a different story though.[/quote]
I’m not sure about other countries, but the US government definitely does care. You have to file US taxes regardless of whether your income is foreign or domestic. If the IRS decides to audit you, then you need to provide proof of what you were doing. They also require you to report all savings or investments over US$10,000; even if it’s in foreign banks. There are strict penalties if you fail to do so. On another note, I know of a Canadian that had to leave the country in a hurry because of some legal problems. The Canadian tax service wanted to see proof of his tax statements. Since he couldn’t ask the Taiwanese government for copies, he had to pay a huge fine in Canada.[/quote]
I know you have to file each year in the us - which incidentally is a ridiculous law - but if you declared a nominal amount or even nothing, wouldn’t they have to prove otherwise if they tried to fine you? I don’t see how they could show you were working if you aren’t on any books and it’s in another country.[/quote]
The longer you stay abroad, the less believable your story of not working becomes. They will also be able to see activity in any domestic bank accounts you might have. There is no statute of limitations on auditing unfiled taxes, so they can go back as far as they want. Also, if you can’t provide proof of what you were doing or what your actual income was, the IRS can “make assessments based on their best estimate of your income.”
[quote=“tomthorne”]Has anyone posting on here ever done it? It would be interesting to know what happens when you decide to give yourself up. My money would be on the following:
- Illegal teacher decides he finally wants to return home, so walks into police station and gives himself up.
- Police officers feign anger and hold teacher, possibly overnight, whilst grilling him about how he’s been surviving for the past x years.
- Teacher constantly repeats story that he has a private income and has been studying Chinese.
- Police give up and send teacher to airport, where he is expected to pay a 10,000NTD fine after going through immigration.
- Illegal teacher doesn’t bother paying fine and flies home.
- Illegal teacher is banned from reentering Taiwan for a period of time equal to the time he has overstayed. If he returns he will also have to pay the 10k fine.
- Illegal teacher couldn’t give a fuck because he has no intention of returning.
Is that a pretty accurate guess?
Let’s not forget, as well, that all of these illegal teachers are knowingly employed by Taiwanese buxiban owners who pay them cash in hand.[/quote]
I doubt it would happen this way. I think the teacher would be detained until the funds for him to pay for himself to fly home were obtained somehow. If he tried to pull a fast one out to the airport, he would be detained again until he could pay his fine.
[quote=“tomthorne”]Unless they cause trouble or get seriously unlucky they almost certainly won’t get caught. By seriously unlucky I mean getting involved in a very, very bad accident or pissing someone with influence off. They probably won’t get deported until they decide they want to return home and walk into a police station to declare themselves illegal.
Illegal teachers work in the same town for years and nothing happens to them. It really isn’t that uncommon, especially with certain nationalities who find it difficult getting a work visa or doing visa runs. A mickey mouse industry gets mickey mouse regulations and enforcement.[/quote]
I still say that no matter how long one has been teaching in Taiwan, their day may becoming. Just because you have been teaching illegally at the same buxiban for 10 years doesn’t mean you won’t get caught on your 11th. And bad stuff does happen. There was a famous case here in Taichung were a foreign teacher was pissed off at his school for some reason. He decided to take pictures of teachers teaching illegally there and showed them to the CLA. You can guess how the story goes after that 
[quote=“Whole Lotta Lotta”][quote=“tomthorne”]Has anyone posting on here ever done it? It would be interesting to know what happens when you decide to give yourself up. My money would be on the following:
- Illegal teacher decides he finally wants to return home, so walks into police station and gives himself up.
- Police officers feign anger and hold teacher, possibly overnight, whilst grilling him about how he’s been surviving for the past x years.
- Teacher constantly repeats story that he has a private income and has been studying Chinese.
- Police give up and send teacher to airport, where he is expected to pay a 10,000NTD fine after going through immigration.
- Illegal teacher doesn’t bother paying fine and flies home.
- Illegal teacher is banned from reentering Taiwan for a period of time equal to the time he has overstayed. If he returns he will also have to pay the 10k fine.
- Illegal teacher couldn’t give a fuck because he has no intention of returning.
Is that a pretty accurate guess?
Let’s not forget, as well, that all of these illegal teachers are knowingly employed by Taiwanese buxiban owners who pay them cash in hand.[/quote]
I doubt it would happen this way. I think the teacher would be detained until the funds for him to pay for himself to fly home were obtained somehow. If he tried to pull a fast one out to the airport, he would be detained again until he could pay his fine.[/quote]
OK, you get a fine of 10kNTD if you’ve overstayed more than 90 days, plus you have to pay for the flight back home which you would have paid for anyway. That must have the illegals shaking in their boots 
.
[quote=“Whole Lotta Lotta”][quote=“tomthorne”]Unless they cause trouble or get seriously unlucky they almost certainly won’t get caught. By seriously unlucky I mean getting involved in a very, very bad accident or pissing someone with influence off. They probably won’t get deported until they decide they want to return home and walk into a police station to declare themselves illegal.
Illegal teachers work in the same town for years and nothing happens to them. It really isn’t that uncommon, especially with certain nationalities who find it difficult getting a work visa or doing visa runs. A mickey mouse industry gets mickey mouse regulations and enforcement.[/quote]
I still say that no matter how long one has been teaching in Taiwan, their day may becoming. Just because you have been teaching illegally at the same buxiban for 10 years doesn’t mean you won’t get caught on your 11th. And bad stuff does happen. There was a famous case here in Taichung were a foreign teacher was pissed off at his school for some reason. He decided to take pictures of teachers teaching illegally there and showed them to the CLA. You can guess how the story goes after that [/quote]
That case is famous for a reason. Anything that happens frequently isn’t news.
I think may is the operative word here. I could be wrong, though, maybe all those illegals are about to get deported en masse. I reckon it will happen in 2012.