Unpaid "Office Hours" -- Are they legal?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

When I first started working at my school back in December '07, I made a verbal agreement to come to work 50 minutes early everyday for preparation, etc… It was understood that this would be unpaid. At the time, I agreed because a)since I was new I needed the prep time and b)I didn’t realize it was (probably) illegal.

Now that I’ve been there for six months, I don’t really need that much prep time. It is a major chain school, and once you’ve got a feel for teaching the lessons they require very little preparation. Also, since I recently bought a car I’ve found that I’m very often five-ten minutes “late,” due to traffic and the fact that it is sometimes impossible to find a parking space.

However, I’ve never been late for my actual teaching hours (starting from 4:50), I’ve only been late for the unpaid “office hours” (from 4:00).

Today I received my salary with a note from the owner stating that from next month I would be deducted NT$10 for every minute I was late. This strikes me as being ludicrous for many reasons, but I’m curious what others might have to say. I’m ready to find a new job, as this is just one example of the ridiculous way I am treated at this school as the only foreigner. But I want to know, am I wrong?

Some information about the position and why I feel unpaid “office hours” are illegal here:

  • unpaid national holidays
  • no paid personal days / vacation time
  • no paid sick days
  • hourly pay and not set salary

It should be noted that the unpaid office hours are not mentioned in my contract, but my contract was literally one sentence long and simply stated I would work at the school for one year. It was more of a verbal agreement, but from what I’ve seen the only reason they want me in the school for that extra 50 minutes is as an advertisement to all the parents dropping off their kids.

But since I did have that verbal agreement with the owner, am I wrong for now cutting 10 minutes off the unpaid hours? Can he legally deduct money from my salary for time that I’m not paid with to begin with?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

2

It’s not illegal, they’re just taking advantage of you. Tell them that as of now, they have to pay you for your time or you’ll quit. Or tell them that you’ll work the time you spend in class and that’s it. Or continue to take it up the bum. It’s your choice.

3

Are you sure it’s not illegal? Requiring someone to work without paying them is the very definition of slavery. I know it’s pretty standard with Taiwanese employees, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still illegal.

4

I think slavery properly refers one who is the property of another. Semantics aside, yes, it could be illegal. However, the fact that you agreed to it and that you acted on that promise could mean that you should held to your original agreement to come in 50 minutes early.

Still, withholding wages for any reason is definitely illegal. Tell your employer that you will file a complaint with your local labor bureau if they deduct money. Where do you live?

You are entitled to 50% pay for sick days. Make sure you go the doctor and get a receipt so that you can ‘prove’ your illness.

5

It’s pretty standard in EFL, internationally.

6

As the only foreigner…you are more than likely correct.
However, you did agree.
Yet…
He threatens to cut your pay when late giving generously of your time?
:bs:

  1. Tell him bluntly and gently your views on that. :no-no:
  2. Suggest that the CLA would be interested in the legality of such.:cop:
  3. How badly do you need that ARC?
    :saywhat:

OR …the ubiquitous “Pie Say” in front of the parents…and a show of tears. :secret: while further lamenting the loss of pay per minute all within earshot of the parents… :howyoudoin:

7

[quote=“Feiren”]You are entitled to 50% pay for sick days.[/quote]Are you sure that applies to people on hourly pay? How would you work it out if you’re doing different hours each day anyway? “Common knowledge” would have it that people on hourly pay aren’t entitled to sick pay, paid holidays, or severance pay. Most English schools here work in that way, and hourly pay is calculated on that basis. If employers had to provide these benefits, many of them would have to reduce the hourly rate to compensate.

8

[quote=“Feiren”]I think slavery properly refers one who is the property of another. Semantics aside, yes, it could be illegal. However, the fact that you agreed to it and that you acted on that promise could mean that you should held to your original agreement to come in 50 minutes early.

Still, withholding wages for any reason is definitely illegal. Tell your employer that you will file a complaint with your local labor bureau if they deduct money. Where do you live?
[/quote]

I live in Taichung County. I don’t really have a problem coming in 50 minutes early, because I do use most of that time to prepare. But there are occasions that I’m 5-10 minutes late from traffic/no parking. I don’t want to leave earlier everyday just to get to my unpaid hour early. The school should really be a bit more flexible about this, and I find it insulting that they would threaten to deduct money for every minute I’m late. A bit childish, no?

I never saw it in more than three years of teaching in Thailand. In general, the benefits for and treatment of foreign workers in Thailand was far superior to anything I’ve seen here, though I was fortunate enough to work for foreign owned companies. Makes me wonder why I came here in the first place, actually.

9

These are the numbers of the labor bureau in Taichung Co. If you have a labor complaint, this is the correct place to file it. Deducting salary is a violation of the Labor Standards Law as is not paying for sick leave. Often threatening to call these people is enough to make the employer back off.

(04)25263100分機2810、2811、2801、【2812~2816】

(04)25266914、【(04)25240131、25154633、25154634】、Fax：(04)25285514

10

[quote=“Feiren”]These are the numbers of the labor bureau in Taichung Co. If you have a labor complaint, this is the correct place to file it. Deducting salary is a violation of the Labor Standards Law as is not paying for sick leave. Often threatening to call these people is enough to make the employer back off.[/quote]Feiren, I don’t want to be pushy, but it’s twice I’ve asked you about hourly pay v.s. salary. I’m sure you know the law much better than me, but why do you think it is that almost all foreign teachers on hourly pay don’t get sick pay, holiday pay, or severance pay?

I don’t have any kind of axe to grind either way. Just interested to know what the law is on this point, as every teacher and employer I’ve met here has accepted the norm that hourly pay = no benefits.

11

If you agreed to come 50 minutes early, you should come 50 minutes early. Not doing so only serves to damage your relationship with them. Nor do I think it entirely unreasonable that teachers be present as parents are dropping their children off for class. That said, for them to dock your pay, especially at a ridiculous $10 per minute is way off base.

12

[quote=“Feiren”]These are the numbers of the labor bureau in Taichung Co. If you have a labor complaint, this is the correct place to file it. Deducting salary is a violation of the Labor Standards Law as is not paying for sick leave. Often threatening to call these people is enough to make the employer back off.

(04)25263100分機2810、2811、2801、【2812~2816】

(04)25266914、【(04)25240131、25154633、25154634】、Fax：(04)25285514[/quote]

Feiren - how is sick leave supposed to work? In my former job, I had a provision in my contract that required me to forfit NT$650 whenever I was sick. Is that an illegal provision?

Also, what about sick leave for hourly jobs?

13

I’ve walked away from many a job offer because the terms of employment were unacceptable.

Why do people agree to do things that are unacceptable to them and then bitch about how unfair it is? :wall:

14

I have no clue about the legality of this, but I generally think that if you agree to something you should stick to it.

That said, your boss changed the rules by trying to fine you for being late for unpaid work so I think you have the right to negotiate on this. Tell him you either want to be paid for the time or you’ll stop doing it. You’ll find out pretty soon how much value they put on these office hours.

A general tip for any kind of negotiation is knowing how far you are prepared to go if the boss refuses.
Are you prepared to quit? Are you prepared to get the CLA involved? If you are not prepared to fight for this then the boss will continue to walk all over you.

15

I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Did you get paid for the day and fined NT$650? Or did you not get paid and get fined NT$650. The former is legal if you make more than NT$1300 per day. The second is not legal and what you contract says doesn’t matter because the law prevails over contracts when the law specifically prescribes a right. The Labor Standards Act and the regulations that flow from it give you 30 days sick leave at half pay. You cannot contractually waive this right in advance as you and your former employer apparently tried to do.

[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“Feiren”]These are the numbers of the labor bureau in Taichung Co. If you have a labor complaint, this is the correct place to file it. Deducting salary is a violation of the Labor Standards Law as is not paying for sick leave. Often threatening to call these people is enough to make the employer back off.

(04)25263100分機2810、2811、2801、【2812~2816】

(04)25266914、【(04)25240131、25154633、25154634】、Fax：(04)25285514[/quote]

Feiren - how is sick leave supposed to work? In my former job, I had a provision in my contract that required me to forfit NT$650 whenever I was sick. Is that an illegal provision?

Also, what about sick leave for hourly jobs?[/quote]

16

Here are the laws and regulations governing taking time off. The Labor Standards Act, which is a law passed by the Legislature, gives the Council of labor Affairs the power to set the duration of sick leave and wages of sick leave in Article 43 of the Act. The Council has set those matters in its Regulations of Leave-Taking of Workers. Article 4 of the Regulations means that you can take off up to 30 days of sick leave and be paid 50% of your salary. Note that Article 10 says that you must ask for leave in advance if possible and your employer can ask for documentation.

The Labor Standards Act applies to foreign employees of buxibans. There is no distinction in Taiwan between employees who are paid a monthly salary and employees who receive an hourly wage except that employees on an hourly wage may obviously receive varying amounts of wages based on how many hours they work.

Labor Standards Act 9 (勞動基準法)

Article 43 A worker may take time off for wedding, funeral, sickness or other proper causes. The duration of such leave and the minimum wage standards for leaves other than unspecified casual leave shall be prescribed by the Central Competent Authority.

Regulations of Leave-Taking of Workers (勞工請假規則)

Article 1 The Rules are prescribed pursuant to Article 43 of the Labor Standards Act (hereinafter referred to as the Act).

Article 2 On wedding day, a worker shall be entitled to eight days of wedding leave with pay.

Article 3 Funeral leave of a worker shall be given according to the following stipulations:

  1. On the death of parent, foster-parent, step-parent, spouse, a worker shall be entitled to eight days of funeral leave with pay;
  2. On the death of grand-parent, son or daughter, parent of spouse, foster-parent or step-parent of spouse, a worker shall be entitled to six days of funeral leave with pay;
  3. On the death of brother or sister, grand-parent of spouse, a worker shall be entitled to three days of funeral leave with pay.

[b]Article 4 When a worker must receive medical service or rest on account of ordinary injury, sickness, or physical reasons, he shall be entitled to ordinary sickness leave according to the following provisions:

  1. For the non-hospitalized, a total of less than thirty days in one year;
  2. For the hospitalized, not exceeding one year;
  3. The total of hospitalized and non-hospitalized sick leave shall not exceed one year;
    Where accounted ordinary sick leave does not exceed thirty days in one year, fifty percent of salary shall be paid. In cases where Labor Insurance payments do not reach fifty percent of salary, the employer shall make up the difference.

Article 5 In the event of the ordinary sick leave exceeding the time limit mentioned in Paragraph 1 of the proceeding Article, and the worker has not recovered after obtaining normal leave or special leave, he shall be entitled to work suspension without pay for a maximum period of one year.[/b]

Article 6 In the event of disability, injury, or sickness on account of occupational accident, a worker shall be entitled to occupational sickness leave during the period of medical treatment or recuperation.

Article 7 In the event of matters which a worker must personally deal with, he shall be entitled to normal leave without pay not exceeding fourteen days in one year.

Article 8 A worker shall be entitled to public leave with pay according to legal regulations, the time limit of which shall be determined by actual requirements.

Article 9 An employer shall not deduct full-attendance bonus payment from the worker who has either taken wedding, funeral, occupational sick leave, or public leave.

Article 10 When a worker demands a leave, he shall make prior oral or written statements giving the reasons and time for such a leave; but, in case of emergency, he may entrust some one to make the leave request for him. The employer may demand the worker to submit relevant documentary evidence.

Article 11 In the event of violations of the stipulations of the Rules on the part of an employer or worker, the competent authority may deal with them in accordance with the relevant stipulations of the Act.
Article 12 The Rules shall become effective on the day of

17

Thanks, Feiren.

18

I also highly recommend this article by Brendon Carr, a lawyer who works in Korea. It’s about what to do if you teach English and have problems with your employer there. But about 98% of this article applies to Taiwan. Just like Taiwan, Korea has Buxibans (known as hagwon apparently), also operated by snakes in the grass. Both countries has Labor Standards Acts. In Korea, your local labor office is the District Labor Office. In Taiwan its the Labor Bureau. In both countries, the way to deal with garden variety labor disputes is through the administrative system, not the courts.

19

Maoman just curious, maybe six months ago I posted that I was working 2o hours and that they dumped an extra unpaid 10 hours per week of “office time” on me. Your reply was something along the lines of don’t be so cheap with your time and work for free, and that if I worked for you you’d find somebody more accommodating.

How is this situation different ?

20

Well today was payday, and in spite of the threats nothing was deducted from my salary. I guess they must have realized just how foolish it was to begin with. I probably would have walked out had they actually deducted anything.