Well and with the push to have people here learning English it’s expected that they speak to people in English as well. I am quite happy to have conversations with local people in English. Of course at places like star bucks and other foreign eateries the staff are asked to speak English to foreigners as they do not assume all foreigners speak Chinese.
Of course they will reply to you in Chinese if you start talking to them in Chinese. Some of the staff get nervous when needing to suddenly switch from their native language to a foreign langauge. It’s not like they do it all the time as say the staff in some expat run resaurants who do speak English very well.
I have also made the mistake of speaking Chinese to Chinese people whose first language is English and who cannot speak Chinese.
One of the tenants on my floor I first started a conversation with him in Chinese. He stood there with a bit of a blank stare before telling me he had just moved here from the USA, and he didn’t speak any Chinese at all. ooops
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?[/quote]
Perhaps that is because genuinly that is very rare in Taiwan. However a good German friends mother came to visit and she could not speak any English. She was more shocked to see all the religous temple signs in the shape of the Nazi Cross more than anything else.
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?[/quote]
You miss the point. How often do they meet a westerner who doesn’t speak any English? 1 in 5, 1 in 10, 1 in 100? I haven’t met any in Taiwan. How many have you met? Quite frankly, I would also be surprised to meet a westerner who came to Taiwan speaking no English.
Why? I have a Taiwanese accent when I speak Mandarin. Never had a problem with it in China as I adjust my vocab when necessary.
As for your earlier comment, Chinese is widely considered to be one of the more difficult languages to learn, requiring many times more hours to get to an intermediate level than say Spanish or French. If you’ve found it easy good for you. You are lucky. But it seems you have a hard time recognizing that your own experience in many matters is not indicative of the true state of the world. [/quote]
I don’t see what the problem is with that either. I have had tons of mainland friends/acquaintances that I speak mandarin with and the only semi-negative response I have received is that it’s “cute.” I have also been able to inspire laughter with some of my word choices-to them it sounded funny to see a white guy saying something in mandarin that they had only ever heard Taiwanese people say on TV. I certainly never had any weirdness from people, and my Chinese is definitely Taiwan-influenced.
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?[/quote]
You miss the point. How often do they meet a westerner who doesn’t speak any English? 1 in 5, 1 in 10, 1 in 100? I haven’t met any in Taiwan. How many have you met? Quite frankly, I would also be surprised to meet a westerner who came to Taiwan speaking no English.[/quote]
You haven’t met any foreigners in TW who couldn’t speak English? Are you serious? You need to get out more! I met a Spanish guy last week who couldn’t speak English. And that’s in Chiayi! Taipei must have quite a few more. When I attended classes at NCKU, every class always had two or three westerners who couldn’t speak English. On average, 38% of citizens of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) stated that they have sufficient knowledge of English to have a basic conversation. That leaves 62%who can’t converse in English, especially with Taiwanese and their infamous Chinglish.
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?[/quote]
You miss the point. How often do they meet a westerner who doesn’t speak any English? 1 in 5, 1 in 10, 1 in 100? I haven’t met any in Taiwan. How many have you met? Quite frankly, I would also be surprised to meet a westerner who came to Taiwan speaking no English.[/quote]
You haven’t met any foreigners in TW who couldn’t speak English? Are you serious? You need to get out more! I met a Spanish guy last week who couldn’t speak English. And that’s in Jiayi! Taipei must have quite a few more. When I attended classes at NCKU, every class always had two or three westerners who couldn’t speak English. On average, 38% of citizens of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) stated that they have sufficient knowledge of English to have a basic conversation. That leaves 62%who can’t converse in English, especially with Taiwanese and their infamous Chinglish.[/quote]
I really was curious about this. So they move to Taiwan unable to speak either English or Chinese? How do they get anything done?
And yes, I am well aware that there are many westerners who don’t speak English, but the general population of westerners is not the same as the population who choose to move to Taiwan.
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?[/quote]
You miss the point. How often do they meet a westerner who doesn’t speak any English? 1 in 5, 1 in 10, 1 in 100? I haven’t met any in Taiwan. How many have you met? Quite frankly, I would also be surprised to meet a westerner who came to Taiwan speaking no English.[/quote]
You haven’t met any foreigners in TW who couldn’t speak English? Are you serious? You need to get out more! I met a Spanish guy last week who couldn’t speak English. And that’s in Jiayi! Taipei must have quite a few more. When I attended classes at NCKU, every class always had two or three westerners who couldn’t speak English. On average, 38% of citizens of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) stated that they have sufficient knowledge of English to have a basic conversation. That leaves 62%who can’t converse in English, especially with Taiwanese and their infamous Chinglish.[/quote]
I really was curious about this. So they move to Taiwan unable to speak either English or Chinese? How do they get anything done?
And yes, I am well aware that there are many westerners who don’t speak English, but the general population of westerners is not the same as the population who choose to move to Taiwan.[/quote]
I’ve met South Americans at NCKU that couldn’t speak Chinese or English but still managed to complete an iMBA…
[quote=“zyzzx”]I really was curious about this. So they move to Taiwan unable to speak either English or Chinese? How do they get anything done?
[/quote]
There are scads of Japanese students at Tai Ta and Shi Ta who are studying Chinese and have no English.
Roughly, the total of American, Canadian, British, Australian and New Zealand visitors comes to 500,000.
Central and South Americans, and all Europeans (excluding the Brits) total 165,000.
Roughly, unless I’m on way too much meth or something.
Which means that about 75% of the western looking people who visit Taiwan speak English as a first language.[/quote]
I love it how they sort all people from all countries and regions into “Overseas Chinese” and lowly “Foreigners”.
Roughly, the total of American, Canadian, British, Australian and New Zealand visitors comes to 500,000.
Central and South Americans, and all Europeans (excluding the Brits) total 165,000.
Roughly, unless I’m on way too much meth or something.
Which means that about 75% of the western looking people who visit Taiwan speak English as a first language.[/quote]
I love it how they sort all people from all countries and regions into “Overseas Chinese” and lowly “Foreigners”. [/quote]
cant blame them. none of these countries recognize taiwan as a nation.
The question how many of the foreigners living in Taiwan do actually come from English speaking countries is beside the point. To be addressed in English constantly is a reminder. “We don’t expect you to speak Chinese. You are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner”. You are different, you are excluded from normal conversation and normal life. In Western countries immigration and integration of foreigners are hot topics. Here in Taiwan a “Hello you are American, hahaha?” is enough to settle the affair.
I guess some of you old-timers here, 20 years and more trotting this island, English speaking wife, English speaking friends, English speaking all the time to everyone, no knowledge of any Chinese whatsoever, without ever feeling the slightest urge to learn any Chinese, this kind of situation is ok.
It can bee seen as a form of respect to address a foreigner in English. Agreed. But it has other connotation as well.
I see it as a matter of respect to address people in Chinese. Do you?
Well, that is how you perceive it. But, more importantly, is that how it is meant? Or is it simply trying to be helpful, speaking to you in what is supposed to be the international language of business and communication.
20 years ago, Chinese ability was more of a survival tool than it is now (actually, it still is where I live). Anyone here 20 years ago would have been much more likely (out of necessity) to learn Chinese than noobs today. As a result, I don’t think I’ve met anyone that fits your description. However, I will say this: long-termers are much more confident and comfortable in their language abilities and in their own lives. They don’t feel the need to constantly force people to speak one language or another.
[quote=“touduke”]It can bee seen as a form of respect to address a foreigner in English. Agreed. But it has other connotation as well.
I see it as a matter of respect to address people in Chinese. Do you?[/quote]
It doesn’t matter what you or I think. What matters is local peoples’ perceptions. Do they really believe they are being rude to address a member of the international community in Taiwan using the international language of communication? Not likely. You can think whatever you want about this behaviour. If you choose to view it as a slight, you are going to be frequently slighted (in Taibei anyway). If you see it as a courtesy, you will meet many courteous folks. Up to you.
As a final note, I rarely see locals decline to speak Chinese with people who possess high levels of fluency. Speak fluently and the local usually prefers to go that route. Without prejudice to particular posters in this thread, ask yourself: are you really fluent; would you want to speak Chinese with yourself?
I dunno, I think the expat culture back then was more exclusive. There’s a reason why so many Taiwanese people think foreigners look down on speaking Chinese, and do so themselves. For years, all the “best” foreigners, the rich, influential Tianmu villa package types, tended to not speak Mandarin or Minnan. To many, it was only missionaries and hippies, either crazy religious types or rejects from the Holy World of US TV programs, that deigned to learn the language. This kind of thinking was, and still is, the reason you get more of this type of behavior from supposedly “high-class” Taiwanese who want to put on airs, while more regular types typically don’t bother with it. In this way it’s actually a useful gauge of someone’s character and background.
OP – you’re post is pointless. You’re upset because the Taiwanese speak English to you rather than listen to your shitty Chinese. (If your Chinese sounded nice, they wouldn’t speak English with you.) It’s not they’re problem. It’s your problem. Get over it or get to studying.
This forum is too often used by people who come here and want Taiwan to conform to their every whim. “Please don’t talk to my kid” …“talk to me in Chinese”. People who talk like this remind me of the colonial British in HK…without the guns. To live in a foreign country means adapting to the way things are here. Seriously…why come here and demand respect based on completely unreasonable parameters? Why did you even come here? To live out some Cain from Kung Fu fantasy?
Suiyuan is right. When I was teaching, I told my students English was just a tool, like computing science or driving. A skill to extend your reach. And I always show them the statistics about higher usage of English among non-Native speakers than Natives.
I come from a country that is a tourist attraction. When people face a foreigner, they usually call him gringo even though most tourists nowadays are European. Same with Japanese, who are mostly called chinos even though an Asian person would most probably be a local. They would talk to the tourist in English, anyway. Same goes for foreign residents -which we have a lot. How can they tell by looking at someone if they are a resident or a tourist? Maybe if they do not wear sandals… talk about stereotypes.
Here, they may want to show off when they talk to you in English even though you may understand Chinese, but unless they are telephatic, someone who meets you for the first time will never know if you understand what they have to say. Do you wear a T-shirt stating you can read 3000 characters?
Seeing the assumptions the newbies have made here, I am amzaed they have not even taken the time to get to know the Forumosa community. Talk about barking up the wrong tree!
When I got here, even though I was also overeager to learn, there were many occassions I would have given a year’s wages to have someone talk to me in English, not to say that even now, over a decade has passed and still there are times I welcome it. It can be annoying if they insist on using English when it is not necessary, but the joke’s on them, no need to get all worked out. If you’re all tense because of this, how are you going to learn? Talk about affective filters and such.
[quote=“touduke”]I do indeed see it as a matter of respect to address people in Chinese. I do. You don’t? Never tried? Never bothered?
To me that feels like a little lack of respect.[/quote]
I agree, and even though I’m sure my tones are at least a bit wrong, in the first week I was here, I learned to say “good morning”, “hello” and “thank you” though I’ll admit that the phrase for “welcome” eludes me because it sounds a lot like the English “good morning” – though since I’m not in a position to need to say “welcome” very often, I guess it’s OK.
I also spent a lot of time agonizing about trying to learn the different flavors of “please” until I found out that culturally, it was actually a bit bad to say please… OK. I can go along with that, less for me to learn here at the beginning!
Are there really people who have lived in Taiwan for a long time that can’t or won’t say good morning and thank you in Chinese? Wow.
I have had the pleasure of meeting Tomas as well as Chris in person and they both have excellent mando speaking ability. I wonder if they have this problem at large?
Here is a guy who speaks mando well enough (along with the TW accent) for me to originally think he was Taiwanese American. And his taiwanese is pretty doggone good too (cept for some accent issues). But nope, hes a honky. I dont think he has a lot of problems with locals speaking Engrish to him?
maybe thats the trick , not only speak mando well but learn a bit of Taiwanese too? That oughta learn em not to speak engrish to you.
I met a Spanish guy last week who couldn’t speak English. And that’s in Chiayi! Taipei must have quite a few more. When I attended classes at NCKU, every class always had two or three westerners who couldn’t speak English. On average, 38% of citizens of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland) stated that they have sufficient knowledge of English to have a basic conversation. That leaves 
