It doesn’t matter. They will still try and speak English to you because ALL foreigners speak English. Just ask any Taiwanese… 
Yeah my Taiwanese gf gets really pissed off with me on this particular topic. I lived in China and it was something I experienced all the fucking time, especially since I lived in Shanghai. When I visited other cities in China they just didn’t talk, e.g. I’m buying a bottle of juice, rather than say the price (like they did to everyone else), they would stand there in silence and point at the number on the cash register.
Here in Taiwan I haven’t experienced it so much, but I have had a few incidents. One in particular that comes to mind was when we were in a department store (me and my Taiwanese gf) I went over to look at a pair of shoes at the clerk came over and said to me in English “Hello, welcome to our store”, to which I responded, in Chinese “I’m sorry I can’t speak English”, then I said to the guy “are you not Taiwanese” and he said “yes I am” and I said, “so can you speak Chinese” and he said “a little”.
I also like to fuck with people, because I’m proper white, blonde hair, blue eyes all of that and I’ll say to people “I’m Taiwanese”. It does get a bit frustrating because I go into English language schools to apply for jobs with my Taiwanese gf and tell them I’m looking for a job and I’d like to give them my CV if that’s ok, that type of thing. Then when they start speaking Chinese they speak to my gf, and ask them something about me, for example “is this his phone number” or the best one “can he understand Chinese”. I’ve just been speaking to you in Chinese!!!
There’s also occassions where someone will bump into me and say “sorry” in English, and that really pisses me off. If they were really sorry they’d say it in their mother language. Yeah it does get frustrating the whole speaking English thing, but it is 10 times worse in China. Although just browsing this thread many of the stories people have said, like the McDonald’s thing, happened to me all the fucking time in China.
I remember once I went into KFC and asked for a hot chocolate, the woman looked at me like it was the most disgusting thing she’d ever heard in her life and simply said “huh”. But yeah it is a major point of tension between me and my Taiwanese gf, because I view it as racist and xenophobic, whereas she thinks they are just trying to be helpful. I remember asking one guy why he won’t talk to me in Chinese and he said “I want to practise my English, just like you are practising your Chinese”. No, I’m not practising my Chinese, I speak Chinese because I live in Taiwan and it’s the official language of the country I live in, I’m not practising, I’m just using it.
I could rant about this all day and tell you literally hundreds of stories, but yeah in my experience it seems to be an Asian disease. If you want to live in the UK you have to speak English, I mean the UK government will actually test your English before giving you a permanant visa for example. Why Chinese and Taiwanese don’t demand that foreigners speak Chinese if they want to live here I don’t know.
If you observe people long enough, you’ll actually hear some Taiwanese people say “sorry” and “hello” to each other, not just to foreigners. I used to think they were just saying that to me because I’m foreign, but many people say that to anyone, not just foreigners. I don’t know why they use English, though.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, don’t get so worked up over everything. It doesn’t really help at all. 
However the old speakee Englishee quotient does ratchet up about 10X when they see a foreigner within ear-short, especially the need to suddenly speak English to their kids. I just view it as an impediment to a good conversation, that’s what really annoys me (not that Taiwanese are good conversationalists anyway).
It doesn’t really bother me, they can speak English or Chinese it makes no difference, I can understand everything. The point is that they are treating me differently from the way they treat a Taiwanese person. It’s called discrimination, or racism. I also like to fuck with people’s expectations. I remember once I went into a book store in Shanghai and the girl started talking to me in English, and I said “I’m sorry I don’t speak English” so she went away and came a few minutes later saying “do you speak French, German,…” and I said “Swedish”. She looked like she had just been shot. To me lying and saying I can’t speak English is my way of pointing out that they can’t make any assumptions about me based on my appearance, they don’t know me, they don’t know who I am, where I come from or what languages I can speak. So it’s more fun for me to fuck with their expectation that as a white man in Taiwan I should speak English and not speak Chinese, by pretending that I don’t speak any English and speak Chinese fluently.
Also I should point out that they are not saying “Hello” and “Goodbye” they are saying 哈罗 and 拜拜。 Sorry my computer doesn’t have the correct character for “luo” for some reason it should have a 口 in front of it, but you get the idea. Those are Chinese words, not English. It sounds like English, and it comes from English, but it is not English. Much like words such as “restaurant” come from French, but it’s not a French word.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too. Or a guy speaks English to his girlfriend to show off, only for her to look at him like “WTF? You never speak English.” 
But that’s just people being people. How many of us would not love the opportunity to show off for friends and family if we were at home and ran into a group of Chinese speaking people? It’s just human nature. I would guess the people who complain about English speaking here are the one’s most likely to do the exact same thing at home (if the opportunity presented itself). People hate things in others that they hate in themselves, that’s all.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too. Or a guy speaks English to his girlfriend to show off, only for her to look at him like “WTF? You never speak English.”
But that’s just people being people. How many of us would not love the opportunity to show off for friends and family if we were at home and ran into a group of Chinese speaking people? It’s just human nature. I would guess the people who complain about English speaking here are the one’s most likely to do the exact same thing at home (if the opportunity presented itself). People hate things in others that they hate in themselves, that’s all.[/quote]
Perhaps, but lets be clear, if you were at home would you assume that those Chinese people can’t speak English? Yeah everybody loves to show off, hell I do it too, but I try not to have any preconcieved ideas about foreigners in the UK. The only Chinese person I speak to in Chinese at home is my ex wife.
Is it really? OK. When you get your next job, you can have the local pay rate. Fair’s fair.
Your labelling of this innocent behaviour as racist devalues the term, even more than it has already been devalued through PC thuggery.
Why do this? Why do you try to project your PC mores in places they don’t fit? Guess what? You don’t look like a Chinese. That’s because you aren’t. Get over it. Chinese have not experienced mass immigration of caucasians in the same way we have received mass Chinese immigration in our home countries. As a result, they aren’t used to non-Chinese people speaking Mandarin and won’t assume you can speak the language. There’s no malice intended in this. It’s all in your head.
Myself, yes in my experience I have noticed a few who have trouble with the Chinese-speaking foreigner idea. But, on the whole, we are in a giant Chinese speaking environment with more than enough opportunities to use the language. I view people who seemingly have to seek out practice opportunities and/or resort to linguistic bullying as strange… or perhaps they aren’t as fluent as they claim to be.
As an additional point, rather than “fuck with people” or lying to them, why not simply say the following: “I am a language student. I want to practice Chinese. Please, let’s speak only in Chinese. Thank you.”
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too. Or a guy speaks English to his girlfriend to show off, only for her to look at him like “WTF? You never speak English.”
But that’s just people being people. How many of us would not love the opportunity to show off for friends and family if we were at home and ran into a group of Chinese speaking people? It’s just human nature. I would guess the people who complain about English speaking here are the one’s most likely to do the exact same thing at home (if the opportunity presented itself). People hate things in others that they hate in themselves, that’s all.[/quote]
Perhaps, but lets be clear, if you were at home would you assume that those Chinese people can’t speak English? Yeah everybody loves to show off, hell I do it too, but I try not to have any preconcieved ideas about foreigners in the UK. The only Chinese person I speak to in Chinese at home is my ex wife.[/quote]
No, I wouldn’t…but as Toasty said, I am quite used to Chinese looking people speaking English. There aren’t many foreigners here and they just don’t have the experience to make such decisions. There are TONS of foreigners here who come only to teach English and who speak little to no Chinese. Based on what is likely their actual experience, why would they assume you DO speak Chinese. I always find people pleasantly surprised when I do speak with them in Chinese.
I agree with Toasty…no need to be a thug about it and it’s not racism or xenophobia at all. When I go to starbucks, if there is someone new, they almost always speak English at first. When they see their coworkers talking casually with me in Chinese, they no longer speak English. Everyone who knows me speaks Chinese with me, unless their English is near native, then they speak English-which is fine with me. I’m not wrapped up in what language I speak.
To be honest Ninman, I used to be like you. When I was a student, it really bothered me when people spoke English to me. When I dropped my expectations, not only did I find that I enjoyed my life here a lot more, I also found that people spoke Chinese with me more. I am guessing, based on what you have said, that there is a defensive edge to you that puts people off. The more you put them off, the more likely they are to speak English with you because they think they are being polite and they don’t want to piss you off. Yeap, it’s the opposite of what you expect and it makes no sense to you, but it’s the reality of what people here do. If you drop that edge, conversations will be more natural. Trust me-you’re creating the situation you find yourself in. I used to do it too.
[quote=“ninman”]There’s also occassions where someone will bump into me and say “sorry” in English, and that really pisses me off.
I could rant about this all day and tell you literally hundreds of stories, but yeah in my experience it seems to be an Asian disease. If you want to live in the UK you have to speak English, I mean the UK government will actually test your English before giving you a permanant visa for example. Why Chinese and Taiwanese don’t demand that foreigners speak Chinese if they want to live here I don’t know.[/quote]
Maybe you should understand that Taiwanese do a great job of teaching kids from a young age to learn English. I thought you wanted to get a job teaching English so you could spend more time learning Chinese.
First you say it pisses you off that they do so and the next thing you say you dont mind at all, so which is it? Seems you have a bad attitude to the locals.
I’d say they have problems dealing with your mainland Chinese accent at first.
People here are just being polite by trying to converse with your in English. When you become a real Taiwanese by gaining citizenship here you will be glad to note they have a language test for that. Only idiots go around lying about their nationality. You seem to have the disease called rant and rave over nothing.
Good advice from both suiyuan31 and Toasty. :bravo:
@ninman: Not all foreigners here are as ‘fluent’ as you are, so I for one do appreciate the effort some of the Taiwanese make to address me in English.
When I arrived here in Hsinchu City around 10 years ago virtually nobody (or so it felt to me) spoke/understood any English. Want to open a bank account? Get a mobile phone contract? File you taxes? Book a hotel/train ticket? Buy a pair of shoes? Order a meal at MacDonald’s? Look for something at 7-Eleven, Da Ren Fa, Ai Mai? You’d better speak Chinese mate or get somebody that does to go with you. My friends and I complained endlessly about the lack of English service and signs and ranted non-stop about ‘this backwater where everybody wants to make a buck off you but they can’t even speak fucking English’.
I know of plenty of foreigners who threw little tantrums out of frustration because ‘everything is a struggle, nothing can be easy, people don’t even understand a basic word like Coca fucking Cola’, etc, etc, etc.
Good for you that you want to practice your Chinese, but show a bit of understanding. The locals are (mostly) just trying to be helpful.
It sounds like you are doing the exact same thing to them. How do you know that the person saying sorry to you is actually a Taiwanese who speaks Chinese? Because they look Chinese? Plenty of foreign born ethnically Chinese around here whose native language in English.
I admit that I’ve had that assumption busted a few times. Someone comes up and says hello, I think oh no, another person wanting to practice English, and it turns out to be a native English speaker and we have a nice conversation. Maybe you’ll argue that that’s pretty rare, but from the locals’ perspective, so is a white person who can converse in Chinese
And its probably foreigners like me who ruin things for you uber-fluent Chinese folks. At the beginning of the conversation, my Chinese is fairly good, and people will usually switch to Chinese when talking to me, but after about 10 minutes, once we’ve made it past the usual well-trodden questions and responses and my conversation partner has picked up the pace a bit, the ting bu dongs start coming and the limited extent of my Chinese becomes clear. Why should they assume that, just because you can throw out a sentence or two, you can really speak Chinese? Especially if they see a lot of foreigners.
The thing that does annoy me is the pointing or hand signaling while not saying anything. At least say it while you point. Or even worse, ignoring me because they’re not sure how to handle me. But I’ve generally only gotten that in China, not in Taiwan.
Maybe she couldn’t hide her facial expressions. Pehaps you are the most disgusting thing she has seen, who knows? Really white people sometimes look as if they are really ill.[/quote]
Or maybe she was thinking “Why the fuck would you order hot chocolate at KFC?” I agree-hot chocolate and fried chicken? Sounds gross to me, lol. Lots of places have it, but you will find that most fast food joints have a very small selection of drinks. My partner gets hot chocolate all the time at Starbucks, so it’s not that the locals think it’s disgusting-you definitely misinterpreted that one.
If you insist on speaking with a mainland accent, that could have been the reason for the look. Watch tv here. Learn to speak mandarin like people here do. I get an equally disgusted look on my face when I hear 兒 used here. People don’t like it…and they won’t like you if you use it.
Almost everything you have written can be boiled down to misunderstanding/misinterpreting the situation. Just relax. Enjoy your life here. You won’t last long with this kind of attitude.
I would have thought that it’s because very few people in China speak any English at all. At least thats the experience I have found over the last several years of doing business in China.
Much better to speak like a mainlander here, than a Taiwanese in China. I certainly wouldn’t want to try it.
I’ve merged and warned posters twice now about serial posting. Serial posting is considered a form of spam. If you feel you wanted to add something, go back and edit your post, don’t post two or three or more posts in succession.
That said, you guys are walking the borderline on the rules regarding personal insults:
Here is the full list for your perusal.
Edit: Parts of the thread have been flamed and parts have been temped. Please keep to the rules. Thanks.
It doesn’t matter. They will still try and speak English to you because ALL foreigners speak English. Just ask any Taiwanese… [/quote]
So just out of curiosity (and I really do wonder about this), how many westerners (the white European kind that people make these assumptions about) who come to Taiwan do NOT speak English? I don’t mean fluent English or great English, but any English at all. Is it really that many? Is the assumption that a westerner in Taiwan will speak some basic English really that unwarranted?
I mean if you look at numbers, I suspect that a) most westerners do not speak Chinese (or don’t speak much) b) most westerners in Taiwan do speak at least some English. So if a clerk makes the assumption that it will be easier to deal with a westerner in English, they will more often than not be correct. They just want to get on with it. Why do people get their panties in a twist over them wanting to do it in what is most likely to be the most efficient way?
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“zyzzx”]So just out of curiosity (and I really do wonder about this), how many westerners (the white European kind that people make these assumptions about) who come to Taiwan do NOT speak English? I don’t mean fluent English or great English, but any English at all. Is it really that many? Is the assumption that a westerner in Taiwan will speak some basic English really that unwarranted?
I mean if you look at numbers, I suspect that a) most westerners do not speak Chinese (or don’t speak much) b) most westerners in Taiwan do speak at least some English. So if a clerk makes the assumption that it will be easier to deal with a westerner in English, they will more often than not be correct. They just want to get on with it. Why do people get their panties in a twist over them wanting to do it in what is most likely to be the most efficient way?[/quote]
Well in 22 years here I have met one French chap in Taichung who arrived in the early 90’s here with almost no English, and recently an Italian cook who could not speak English.
All of the other expats I have met here either from Europe or South America or from other non native English speaking countries have had fairly good English.[/quote]
So 2 in 22 years, that’s about what I expected. Sounds like the Taiwanese are making a well-founded assumption.
Why? I have a Taiwanese accent when I speak Mandarin. Never had a problem with it in China as I adjust my vocab when necessary.
As for your earlier comment, Chinese is widely considered to be one of the more difficult languages to learn, requiring many times more hours to get to an intermediate level than say Spanish or French. If you’ve found it easy good for you. You are lucky. But it seems you have a hard time recognizing that your own experience in many matters is not indicative of the true state of the world.
Why the question mark? Are you uncertain if you’ve been dating a girl? 
Yes, yes it is. Most Taiwanese believe all western foreigners can speak English. Why do you think Taiwanese are so shocked when they meet a foreigner who doesn’t speak English?