He’s either thinking “I am the world’s biggest putz” or “I still can’t believe this is happening to me” or more likely, both. We’ll never know
I think the other guy drove, and knowing all too well the way things work here and how it was going to play out, he made some bad choices. Key word “think.” I haven’t seen anything utterly convincing either way despite how utterly convinced some people seem
[quote=“Tempo Gain”]
I think the other guy drove, and knowing all too well the way things work here and how it was going to play out, he made some bad choices. [/quote]
I dunno what those sentences mean. Who was the killer?
If those KTV places deliberately drive their wankered clients away from road blocks then they are culpable to some degree. But Dean had proven that night that those sorts of clubs will drive you to where you want to go…
Fucking weird the whole way through.
[quote=“superking”][quote=“Tempo Gain”]
I think the other guy drove, and knowing all too well the way things work here and how it was going to play out, he made some bad choices. [/quote]
I dunno what those sentences mean. Who was the killer?[/quote]
Setting aside the issue of who was in the driver’s seat when the Mercedes hit Mr. Huang, I’m not sure of the identity of the valet driver:
[quote=“hansioux”]Although 卓俊呈 and the manager of the KTV claims that 卓俊呈 is the driver, [color=#000080]the actual driver’s face cannot be seen on the footage[/color].[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 4#p1497764
[quote=“GermanStereotype”] Court used very long and very confusing reasoning to said that the inner light of the car maybe not in function and thus [color=#000080]unable to identify[/color] whether there was or [color=#000080]who it was in the driver’s seat[/color].[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3#p1501043
I’m not sure who you refer to with this. I can see many people (including me) being appalled by the circumstances of the pre-trial phase, especially the media leaks and craze, plus questioning the police work and it’s interpretation by the court - based on what was made public so far.[/quote]
I refer to those who keep harping on about how this guy is innocent, or heavily suggesting the same. You obviously haven’t read much of these threads if you’ve missed the people I’m referring to.
[/quote]
Sorry, must have missed that, even I followed this case pretty much from the beginning. My impression was that the loudest mouths were those that
a) decry that he obviously must be guilty of killing the newspaper delivery guy because of [insert favorite piece of incidental evidence / alleged character trait here]
b) attack Taiwan and the justice system in general
But to be honest, I must have missed the multiple people explicitly declaring Zain innocent - and not just taking his version of the story into account as well.
For example I refer to media already waiting in front of the police station at the time Zain went there for the first time, having been tipped off by someone.
I also refer to the trial by media. For example, every Taiwanese and their grandma knew from the start that he 100% sure was the driver at the time of accident, because there was video footage showing him getting into the driver seat. Except that there was not (the video instead showed that he got into the passenger seat instead). You know, stuff like that. This kind of shit happened in my country too, and I am appalled by it as well - regardless of whether or not the accused in the end is found guilty or not.
Naaah, I mean way before that. More like in the very beginning, when this news story was just unfolding. by the way, that video he referred to was not “new”, it was the one shown in the court.
I’m referring to the publicly available information, mostly from the media. Apart from that and the court docs, I have no insight into what else happened and thus cannot be appalled by it.
I’m glad you are so sure about all this stuff, good on you. What I mean is that in such a case, where it was crucial to find out who the driver was at a certain point of time, I would imagine it should be possible to collect much more evidence than was available, if police was working on it from the beginning. Phone location records for example (Cell Tower Records). It’s just my feeling after reading translations of the court documents, that if the police did more work on this case, there could have been much more third party evidence backing up the KTV provided material and witnesses.
I didn’t see any allegations of Zain illegally fleeing Taiwan before so far. All I read was that he did openly leave Taiwan at one point in the past, and before that had been convicted of software “piracy” of some kind (being the boss of the company involved) and did paid some fine for that. So if you have some more insight into why you allege that “this is a guy who committed crimes in Taiwan and illegally fled”, please do share. Unless there is some more info to back that up, to me it sounds too much like character assassination… even though Zain might may be not be the hardest target for that 
You are right: For sure he is guilty of drunk driving, and was admitting this pretty much from the beginning as far as I gather. He also for sure is guilty of illegally leaving Taiwan with another person’s passport, as well as not showing up for his prison term. Things about a “dystopian hellhole called Taiwan” obviously is nonsense as well. Whether the “stitched up by corrupt police” part is indeed complete bullshit will hopefully be a bit clearer after the Scottish court proceedings…
Zain claimed to like Taiwan, and wrote that he was even giving Taiwan’s justice system as a positive example at times. Thus, he wrote, he was very surprised and disappointed when he ended up in what he perceived as a set up at the police station and later in the trials.
At least for the poster decrying Taiwan’s justice system as utterly broken, I do wonder that myself as well. On the other hand, people typically don’t think they could ever end up in court, so even though they might have doubts, they probably think it would never affect them. Finally, this can happen pretty much in any country. Me, I am following this case and trying to understand the backgrounds to get a feeling whether or not I should be concerned. I know why I am concerned about the media already, but that is hardly news or endemic to Taiwan
You think they’ll be able to determine that from the other side of the planet? I don’t know. Maybe. I can’t help but have my doubts, though.
I’m almost certainly one of those biased loudmouths that you referred to. I guess it’s because I’ve been influenced by the media, especially by a news report that was published six days after Mr. Dean’s Mercedes killed Mr. Huang:
[quote][color=#000080]Banciao prosecutors and agents from the Ministry of Justice’s Investigation Bureau on Monday raided[/color] 32 locations, including [color=#000080]Taipei City Police Department’s Da-an[/color], Zhongshan and Nangang precincts.
A gambling den in Yonghe City, Taipei County, was also searched during the raids on Monday.
Casino personnel were detained on Monday for questioning, while [color=#000080]a total of 11 Taipei police officers[/color] — including Zhongshan Precinct’s Criminal Team chief Huang Chih-chin (黃志欽) — were interviewed by investigators.
Banciao prosecutors said they [color=#000080]had yet to decide whether to release the police officers on bail[/color] or apply to the district court to detain them, adding that they had obtained [color=#000080]evidence that suggested the casino runners might have bribed some police officers[/color] to cover up their businesses.[/quote]–Rich Chang, “Illegal casino runners, police questioned over bribery,” Taipei Times, March 31, 2010 taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003469397
Well some obvious lessons. Do not go in your own car to a drinking event. Take a cab. Do not drive if you are going to drink.
Even one drink.
[quote=“tommy525”]Well some obvious lessons. Do not go in your own car to a drinking event. Take a cab. Do not drive if you are going to drink.
Even one drink.[/quote] True, that.
The locals don’t have much different views to Dean’s claims.
wantchinatimes.com/news-subc … 3&cid=1103
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003443470
It’s well known how the cops here ‘subsidise’ their salaries to make 100k+/mth. Tax free for the most part. Cops are generally despised by the local population, look what happens when they interact with the locals, the locals just shout at them half the time.
Here’s another one from the Da-an precinct (2010).
chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/loca … police.htm
The famous case from Banchiao is already mentioned above.
Makio case- ‘the crucial video-tape was just lying in my desk’
news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+Ne … 27059.html
[quote=“superking”][quote=“Tempo Gain”]
I think the other guy drove, and knowing all too well the way things work here and how it was going to play out, he made some bad choices. [/quote]
I dunno what those sentences mean. Who was the killer?
[/quote]
The person who drove was the killer, that is, the other guy.
Nope, most certainly I was referring to other posters, especially recently. Those who, as far as it was my impression, do extreme justice bashing and don’t back that up with anything but “everyone knows…”. Please accept my apology if you felt included, this was not my intent.
I agree this would not be a very likely event. Still, I’m hoping that this can help us understanding more about how Taiwan is defending their trial and verdict, and how Zain is trying to defend his story. At least it looks to me like a more or less impartial third party is reviewing this whole mess - and if they are biased, then in the favor of their own citizen I guess. So if they say Zain’s story is completely made up, then I guess it’s harder to argue with. Or maybe there will be news of corrupt Scottish courts, being bribed by Taiwanese KTV owners? Now that would be a damn cool story…
Nope, most certainly I was referring to other posters, especially recently. Those who, as far as it was my impression, do extreme justice bashing and don’t back that up with anything but “everyone knows…”. Please accept my apology if you felt included, this was not my intent.[/quote]
No problem. You, along with hansioux and GermanStereotype, have done some good work in this discussion.
I agree this would not be a very likely event. Still, I’m hoping that this can help us understanding more about how Taiwan is defending their trial and verdict, and how Zain is trying to defend his story. [/quote]
Agreed.
I have been caught up in this whirlpool of negativity and distrust of the Taiwanese society, living in fear of what might happen if this or something similar happens to me and came to the conclusion that while it might, it’s highly unlikely. Why? I always take a taxi if I’m out drinking. I make sure I have nothing to hide. I try to not get physical as much as I’m irritated by the idiocy. I for one hope that claims of an unfair trial gets supported in some way, but it doesn’t change the fact that he was seen driving his car while heavily under the influence. I think the thinking of this might happen to me, or one of us, while remotely possible, is highly unlikely.
I know what nailed it for me:
The poster has a past as Barrister I think, and if that’s his conclusion, then the case is settled as far as I am concerned.
We are well beyond reasonable doubt in this case, I am afraid - and then some.
The poster here even allowed for the video cams not to be calibrated etc.
I find it interesting that he mentioned that the Taiwanese authorities with a little skill could get him back here, so far it seems to be the case.
You have a good point. It’s helpful to keep reminding yourself that Taiwan is a 3rd world shit-hole with a fraudulent veneer of efficiency and modernity.
Don’t expect better and you won’t be disappointed or frustrated.
BTW, it could be argued that ZD’s position would be almost the same if the hit-and-run didn’t involve the DUI.
In that case you would not run, you would remember and you would pay what you could and get the matter sorted.
If he had done that even with the DUI, he would have been out of jail at the latest last year.
In that case you would not run, you would remember and you would pay what you could and get the matter sorted.
If he had done that even with the DUI, he would have been out of jail at the latest last year.[/quote]
Curiously, if Dean is to be believed, that is not what the KTV driver did. According to Dean the KTV driver killed the scooter driver and then carried on driving! I would still like to know what the KTV driver intended to do about the crash, if Dean is to be believed. “Dum de dum, taking pissed client home, dum de dum, bang, oh I have just propelled a scooter and driver X feet into the air and along the ground, think I will keep going, wonder what I will do about it, oh the pissed guy is awake, he is kicking me out, better walk back to work, oh he hasn’t even noticed the massive crash marks (even though he has just walked past them), ok, well, dunno how I am gonna get out of this one.”
This sounds more plausible to me, “Gnnn, where am I, who is that fucker driving my car, I just want to go home, I can drive, get out you, drive drive drive, sleepy time, zzzzzzzzzz BANG, what the fuck? shit hope it was a dog or something, head home, sleep, will be ok in the morning.” Once awake the memory played, or was allowed to play, certain slips of omission.
[quote=“Mr He”]I know what nailed it for me:
The poster has a past as Barrister I think, and if that’s his conclusion, then the case is settled as far as I am concerned.
We are well beyond reasonable doubt in this case, I am afraid - and then some.
The poster here even allowed for the video cams not to be calibrated etc.
I find it interesting that he mentioned that the Taiwanese authorities with a little skill could get him back here, so far it seems to be the case.[/quote]
That timeline is pretty convincing. I missed this at the time, I’d been hoping to see this kind of timeline. It’s hard to see under those circumstances how it could have happened without at least active knowledge by Dean of what had occurred.
That does sound more possible. And it’s certainly true that more fatal hit’n’runs are committed by people DUI, than folks who are sober and working a routine shift.
Although I’d add a few more nnnn’s and rrrr’s to your first Gnnn bit.
“Gnnnn’rrrrrrrrr’nnnnnnnn”.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”]
That timeline is pretty convincing. I missed this at the time, I’d been hoping to see this kind of timeline. It’s hard to see under those circumstances how it could have happened without at least active knowledge by Dean of what had occurred.[/quote]
The poster’s timeline analysis is based on a lot of supposition on which of the clocks is incorrect and by how much, without any evidence at all to support it.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Mr He”]I know what nailed it for me:
The poster has a past as Barrister I think, and if that’s his conclusion, then the case is settled as far as I am concerned.
We are well beyond reasonable doubt in this case, I am afraid - and then some.
The poster here even allowed for the video cams not to be calibrated etc.
I find it interesting that he mentioned that the Taiwanese authorities with a little skill could get him back here, so far it seems to be the case.[/quote]
That timeline is pretty convincing. I missed this at the time, I’d been hoping to see this kind of timeline. It’s hard to see under those circumstances how it could have happened without at least active knowledge by Dean of what had occurred.[/quote]
Without referring to certain things said IRL - are you less unconvinced now?
What got me was the timeline, Zain’s version basically required that that all evidence to the contrary of his version of events should be thrown out.
Without knowing anything about Taiwan courts, I would think that the same timeline of events was what got the judge. Other witnesses unable to recall everything in detail - neither here nor there. Small contradictions in video camera calibrations - not really that huge, if you have the call to the police from the scene of accident, and then 2 camera timelines at his house supporting that he could not possibly have switched drivers after the accident.
Not gathering even more evidence? I think they had plenty of pretty good evidence.
The police could have been more thorough, however they had to prove that they had a waterproof case against Zain. Once done, then they probably decided not to dig any more - and what for? They had enough.
Accusations of corruption, fine, however again, the proof still looks solid enough, so allegations irrelevant.