15% of fruit and vegetables contain excessive or illegal pesticides

Arts & Sciences Science & Nature
,
21

I think i would trust most private organizations for testing than government ones here. Anyone know how much it costs to have a sample tested at SGS?

in the end though, 15% seems VERY low in my opinion just from personal observation. Also the rate of scary chemicals being sprayed seems to go up further from city centers.

some very heavy pesticide crops here are:

rice (for snails mostly i believe, also bad HM contam), wax apple, mango, watermelon, Annona species (sugar apples) etc. Usually heavy bug targets. Banana i actually dont see sprayed as much as other crops. Taiwan uses a lot of bagging techniques for fruit, and that does wonders for macro animal damage, but bad for garbage/pollution still.

If you are truly worried, your only real option is importing and growing your own. I am not sure how strict the organic folks are here, i will be getting into that mess early next year myself to see about certifying our farm organic. One thing to consider though is in places like Canada you actually need to prove soil quality and cleanliness for XX years (i forget exactly how many now, but i think it was 3-7 years). Taiwan is so insanely polluted, even with the gift of gods typhoons doing a cleanup on the island every now and then, that the soil itself is bad. Heavy metal pollution can be really bad in some areas (old factory areas/cities).

Just a guess, but I think the only real organic (meaning actually clean, not just “not sprayed much”) is going to be from very specific areas, probably mountainous. The amount of time and energy to actually take out pollution from soil is incredible, and i honestly do not see this happening much at all here. Our farm will be “organic” but i doubt we would get certification due to neighbors spraying and contaminating our crops/soil.

22

In Europe you need 3 years, at least.

What are you planning to grow? Some of the vegetables I took for granted in Europe are insanely expensive here (bell peppers, tomatoes…), and would be nice to have a trustful supplier nearby :slight_smile:

23

I believe in Taiwan it is 3 years. Taiwan organic produce from Hualien and Taitung is also sold in Canada having passed inspections so I think we can safely say there is real organic produce at least as defined by the west.

24

Wow, thats cool. any idea what types of plants are being exported to Canada, it is one path i have thought about taking.

Blaque, I’m on the other end of the island ) we mostly grow tropical fruit, but are expanding into aquaculture and more vegetables. starting mostly to supply ourselves with clean food, then once kinks are worked out we will likely make a run at it for profit.

One of the hardest parts for organic to compete with is size and loss of crops. Most people think dragon fruit are tasteless, or at best very bland. but they can be grown sweet. Its the california strawberry situation, over fed/watered crappy genetics that usually take into account shipping/handling/storage and weight. And to be fair, organic and non GMO just cant compete with the new stuff. What they do compete for is nutritional quality, not being toxic and usually far better taste. Local attitudes seem to follow the bigger=better.

i have wondered lately, the “Known-you” seed company, are they affiliated with monsanto or other big international companies at all? Or is taiwans GMO R&D fairly independent?

25

An as FYI, Costco sells some bottles of fruit and veggie wash. Might not get rid of the stuff inside, but should remove the stuff on the outside. Comes in a pack of two bottles. One bottle lasts me 5 months and I use some 5-7 days a week.

26

[quote=“Pingdong”]Wow, thats cool. any idea what types of plants are being exported to Canada, it is one path I have thought about taking.

Blaque, I’m on the other end of the island ) we mostly grow tropical fruit, but are expanding into aquaculture and more vegetables. starting mostly to supply ourselves with clean food, then once kinks are worked out we will likely make a run at it for profit.

One of the hardest parts for organic to compete with is size and loss of crops. Most people think dragon fruit are tasteless, or at best very bland. but they can be grown sweet. Its the california strawberry situation, over fed/watered crappy genetics that usually take into account shipping/handling/storage and weight. And to be fair, organic and non GMO just cant compete with the new stuff. What they do compete for is nutritional quality, not being toxic and usually far better taste. Local attitudes seem to follow the bigger=better.

I have wondered lately, the “Known-you” seed company, are they affiliated with monsanto or other big international companies at all? Or is taiwans GMO R&D fairly independent?[/quote]

AFAIK most of Taiwan’s GMO was developed here. Some fruit strains that are grown were never officially approved for public use but farmers got the seeds and grew them themselves. For instance the papaya are almost all GMO to resist papaya virus. Im guessing the giant guavas here could also be GMO.

I’m not sure what’s the situation for grains. Almost all the soya beans imported into Taiwan are GMO though.

GMO is not a problem in terms of toxicity.

27

Interestingly, Costco currently has organic ones.

28

Saw a discussion about problematic vegetables on Taiwanese TV yesterday. String beans and peapods seem to be the worst affected cause insects, fungus and what not likes them. So farmers spray them with cocktails of up to 20 pesti-, fungi- und what not -cides. Also, they pointed out that young beans will be sprayed when the older ones on the same fields are not yet harvested, meaning that the older ones get the poison meant for the younger ones as well, so they are showered several times in their life time. Not sure how that works. Maybe some of you farming experts can explain? Also near the top of the list green pepper, tomatoes, chili, small cucumbers, broccoli and so on.

What they didn’t present in the show was a list of vegetables and fruits that are least likely to contain chemicals. Are root vegetables less effected, carrots, turnip, potatoes, etc.?

29

There’s some info on the web on that, based on US and Australian research, at least:
weekendnotes.com/fruit-and-v … esticides/

[quote]The EWG’s list of the Clean 15 for 2013
(Fruits and Vegetables Least Likely to Contain Pesticides - ranked in order of least to most.)

  1. Asparagus
  2. Avocados
  3. Cabbage
  4. Cantaloupe
  5. Sweet corn
  6. Eggplant
  7. Grapefruit
  8. Kiwifruit
  9. Mangoes
  10. Mushrooms
  11. Onions
  12. Papayas
  13. Pineapples
  14. Sweet peas (frozen)
  15. Sweet potatoes

The Clean Thirteen (based on Australian research)
The Top 13 that have low pesticide risk, ranked in order

  1. Onions
  2. Sweet Corn
  3. Pineapple
  4. Asparagus
  5. Sweet peas
  6. Mango
  7. Eggplant
  8. Kiwifruit
  9. Cabbage
  10. Watermelon
  11. Sweet Potatoes
  12. Grapefruit
  13. Mushrooms[/quote]
30

[quote=“Dragonbones”]There’s some info on the web on that, based on US and Australian research, at least:
weekendnotes.com/fruit-and-v … esticides/

[quote]The EWG’s list of the Clean 15 for 2013
(Fruits and Vegetables Least Likely to Contain Pesticides - ranked in order of least to most.)

  1. Asparagus
  2. Avocados
  3. Cabbage
  4. Cantaloupe
  5. Sweet corn
  6. Eggplant
  7. Grapefruit
  8. Kiwifruit
  9. Mangoes
  10. Mushrooms
  11. Onions
  12. Papayas
  13. Pineapples
  14. Sweet peas (frozen)
  15. Sweet potatoes

The Clean Thirteen (based on Australian research)
The Top 13 that have low pesticide risk, ranked in order

  1. Onions
  2. Sweet Corn
  3. Pineapple
  4. Asparagus
  5. Sweet peas
  6. Mango
  7. Eggplant
  8. Kiwifruit
  9. Cabbage
  10. Watermelon
  11. Sweet Potatoes
  12. Grapefruit
  13. Mushrooms[/quote][/quote]

Cool. I think sweet potato (especially the leaves) and papaya should be rather clean, cause they grow fine even when unattended by farmers.

31

best bet is to try and find local farmers (old ladies) selling their own small harvests. seek out them and find one that doesnt spray. i would not trust any labeling here to be 100% truthful based on how often things are tainted here.

probably the cleanest non animal food here is mushrooms. they eat wood and wood is often taken form mountains and rivers, sometimes farms. So it is probably the cleanest food in general grown here.

from the list of 13 safe foods, i know for a fact the following are sprayed heavily here: mango, pineapple, eggplant, watermelon.

mango doesnt really need spraying, but there is a fly here that is really bad. this year i saw whole orchards basically throw away their crop.

something i dont see reported here but was informed by the family my first year is poisonings via farm produce in Taiwan. I would bet most of those get swept under the rug on paper, but its fairly common. people go pick (could be called stealing) veggies from fields that were sprayed and poison themselves. usually youngins and I havent heard of anyone dieing lately, usually just really sick. I do worry about unknown long term side effects of all these things though.

So I like to see farmers posting and putting old bags of the chemical they just used on their posts or fences which warns everyone they are now toxic. I only see rice farmers in our area doing it, but its a good practice.

most greens will be sprayed and snail baited.

lastly, its not all about killing plants/weeds/disease etc, there are lots of other things used to switch plant behavior. hormones especially. mango tend to drop fruit very easily, and also get rotten fruit, so they are sprayed heavily for this. Other things like rambutan can be made seedless with GA3 applications. lots of things like this are common. Tilapia here are often fed a chemical to switch them to all male when young for grow out ponds. it’s unreal just how little food isnt tainted like this. some chemicals sued in this fish are illegal many places.

I know there is organic in Taiwan, but given the corrupt track record, especially with gov inspection type groups and food manufacture i really truly think if you are worried about it the only real way to avoid shitty food is make your own. even then it may be hard to get truly organic with all the pollution and rainfall/flooding. Just need to think how much work you want to put into it. its not usually a small time investment producing your own clean food.

32

The mushrooms are clean… before they get bleached, ha ha (the white ones maybe, no, making things up, but it might well be true).

So, what about papaya orchards, lots of spraying going on there too?

And how about the controls, is it like in sports where the doping inspectors have trouble keeping up with new advances in technology? Are they even able to detect when new chemicals/methods are put into play?

33

Just to add to the discussion. A friend of mine who run an aquaponic farm was denied a booth at an organic farmer market in Xindien since she did not grow her vegetables in soil. Makes me really wonder what is considered organic here. I’d trust produce from an aquaponic farm before an organic farm that is based near a city center.

34

[quote=“hannes”]The mushrooms are clean… before they get bleached, ha ha (the white ones maybe, no, making things up, but it might well be true).

So, what about papaya orchards, lots of spraying going on there too?

And how about the controls, is it like in sports where the doping inspectors have trouble keeping up with new advances in technology? Are they even able to detect when new chemicals/methods are put into play?[/quote]

I think it’s an issue of way too many items to inspect.

I would trust American/western produce more than Taiwan’s. We might use too much pesticide/insecticide but I don’t think the US is going to be using illegal chemicals. In Taiwan I can easily see a big market for cheap insecticides/pesticides of unknown origin as long as they kill the pests. It just washes off after all.

35

The food here is dirty for a variety of reasons. Besides growing your own food, which many of us cannot do, what other options do we have? Perhaps we should start a listed of trusted farmers.

36

Like this idea a lot,. It’d probably need some kind of checklist though. What would the items on the checklist be?

37

Usually, to be considered organic, you have to grow your vegetables on soil which has not been treated with chemical additives during a certain period of time (you can use natural sources for nutrition, meaning crap or other traditional stuff). In Spain -and Europe, i think- you need to do that for three years, then submit your fields and vegetables to an audit to get the certification. In Taiwan works pretty much the same.

38

Usually, to be considered organic, you have to grow your vegetables on soil which has not been treated with chemical additives during a certain period of time (you can use natural sources for nutrition, meaning crap or other traditional stuff). In Spain -and Europe, i think- you need to do that for three years, then submit your fields and vegetables to an audit to get the certification. In Taiwan works pretty much the same.[/quote]

Good to know. It still doesn’t make sense though. There is no soil in aquaponic gardening. So with this rule, an aquaponic farm could never be certified organic. Of course, the rule was created to make sure there are no chemical additives in the environment where the vegetables are grown. But it doesn’t take into account that you do not need soil to grow food. :loco:

Adding any kind of pesticide/herbicide to an aquaponic system will kill (or at least damage) the fish.

39

Usually, to be considered organic, you have to grow your vegetables on soil which has not been treated with chemical additives during a certain period of time (you can use natural sources for nutrition, meaning crap or other traditional stuff). In Spain -and Europe, i think- you need to do that for three years, then submit your fields and vegetables to an audit to get the certification. In Taiwan works pretty much the same.[/quote]

Good to know. It still doesn’t make sense though. There is no soil in aquaponic gardening. So with this rule, an aquaponic farm could never be certified organic. Of course, the rule was created to make sure there are no chemical additives in the environment where the vegetables are grown. But it doesn’t take into account that you do not need soil to grow food. :loco:

Adding any kind of pesticide/herbicide to an aquaponic system will kill (or at least damage) the fish.[/quote]

In Australia, where there’s a very robust system for classifying as organic, they don’t allow aquaponics. aquaponics.com.au/aquaponics … icsorganic

40

Doesn’t seem very robust to me if they don’t allow aquaponics. :slight_smile: A bit surprised as Australia is probably the leading country for aquaponics worldwide. Just wish I could get some better insight on why the rules does not permit aquaponics to be considered organic.