319 "spinning" quote changed to "presenting"

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

A reporter for the New York Times, based in China, came to Taiwan to write a story about the 319 shooting more than a year ago, and in his first article, online and in print, he compared the shooting incident and the subsequent 319 investigations to something “found in a dime store novel.”

However, the reporter later rewrote that remark online on the NY Times website, changing SPINNING to PRESENTING…

However, the China Post newspaper has since hopped on the phrase three times, since then, to keep repeating that same “dime store novel” quote in order to criticize the 319 incident as a staged shooting.

Now…Mayor Ma, in a public speech last Sunday during the KMT anti-DPP demo in Taipei, uses the same quote: “The March 19 shooting has put shame onto our democracy,” Ma said. “The New York Times said it is material for writing a cheap crime novel.” (China Post quote front page)

So even Ma’s speech writers continue to parrot the statement, and attribute it to the great and august New York Times, to buttress the KMT argument that the shooting was staged etc.

This is a good example of a suspect quote that won’t die. Now even Ma is using it.

“Taiwan Police Say Who Shot President, but Suspect Is Dead.” was the NY Times headline back then.

The article started off like this: “Spinning the sort of story once found in dime store novels, the police said in Taipei that a middle-aged man had carried out the shooting on March 19 …”

SPINNING as later changed to PRESENTING, big difference!

2

Update

The Taiwan government didn’t like the tone of that first NYTimes article, which was later corrected. Taiwan government got angry over Times report language:

“Taiwan may seek an apology from the New York Times over an article about the investigation into the shooting of president Chen last March. Reports say the government is furious over the language used by a Times reporter in describing the police findings in the case. Times reporter called the findings “the sort of story once spun in dime store novels.” Premier Frank Hsieh frowned at the report, accusing the Times of not knowing the full picture.”

**** MONEY QUOTE HERE: "Meanwhile, the International Herald Tribune version rephrases the Times article, reading:

“Presenting a sequence of events worthy of a pulp crime novel, the police in Taipei said that a balding man, Chen Yi-hsiung, had carried out the shooting because he had been depressed about difficulties in selling a house and blamed the president’s management of Taiwan’s struggling economy. While the police did not give his age, Taiwanese media reported that he was 63.”

Later, the entire phrase was deleted and a correction issued by the Times, but neither the China Post nor Mayor Ma have been informed. Or cared to look!

One more quote: “The omission of “spinning” doesn’t seem quite so critical of the police, but pulp still seems a little strong, unless one presents the other dubious circumstances surrounding the shooting. As for “dime novel”, it sounds awfully old-fashioned (and “dime store novel” is just plain wrong), so if you’re going to go that direction, I agree with the “pulp” designation, although it has a lot of unfortunate cinematic associations.”

And the now corrected phrase also gets into the United Daily News here:
網路城邦｜【spiritofnyc 的網誌】網誌｜創作文章得知了林某的「來函溝通」﹐Keith Bradsher把先前在「紐約時報」報導對三一九槍擊案 偵辦情形描述為「廉價小說情節（Dime Store Novel）」的用詞﹐稍後在「國際先驅論壇 報」的報導中，已改用「事件情節有如坊間犯罪小說內容（a sequence of events worthy …
city.udn.com/v1/blog/article/article. jsp?uid=spiritofnyc&f_ART_ID=183365

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What passes for “journalism” in the United States of America is even more laughable when you consider reports on foreign affairs.

The comic-book ignorance and imbalanced reporting about Taiwan in the U.S. media is a well established fact.

Just look at this tidbit from today’s Reuters (which is so balanced, it’s appearing in the China Daily).

With the exception of these 4 censored sentences:

[quote]China views Taiwan as a breakaway province and has threatened to attack if it pushes for formal statehood.

“Mainland China is not particularly noted for its rule of law. They don’t need a piece of law in order to invade Taiwan,” Ma said.

The KMT, or Nationalists, once ruled all of China and fled to Taiwan after losing the Chinese civil war in 1949. The party enjoyed uninterrupted rule of the island until 2000, when it lost to Chen’s DPP.[/quote]

Yeah, and Saddam Hussein’s rule of his state was “interrupted” in 2003. :laughing:

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But STOP_Ma, what i was trying to say above, read it again, is that the New York Times reporter became aware of his ill-thought out comic book approach to the article and later apologized in print and corrected the phrase. So the Times did try to rise to a higher level, once the DPP people asked them to issue a correction, which the Times did. Good on them!

But what I am trying to say here is that even though The Times did correct the first initial report published in its paper and website, the CHINA POST and MAYOR MA continue to USE the first mis-statement of fact from the Times initial report to fuel their diatribes. So it is not the USA media that is in comic book mode form here, it is the China (sic) Post and Mayor Ma. The Post, I can understand, they are dummies. But Ma is Harvard educated. How can he continue to use disinformation like that? Oh yeh, I forgot…

5

[quote=“Cola”]But STOP_Ma, what I was trying to say above, read it again, is that the New York Times reporter became aware of his ill-thought out comic book approach to the article and later apologized in print and corrected the phrase. So the Times did try to rise to a higher level, once the DPP people asked them to issue a correction, which the Times did. Good on them!

But what I am trying to say here is that even though The Times did correct the first initial report published in its paper and website, the China POST and MAYOR MA continue to USE the first mis-statement of fact from the Times initial report to fuel their diatribes. So it is not the USA media that is in comic book mode form here, it is the China (sic) Post and Mayor Ma. The Post, I can understand, they are dummies. But Ma is Harvard educated. How can he continue to use disinformation like that? Oh yeh, I forgot…[/quote]

I understand your point, and yes, the NY Times seems to be doing a lot of apologizing lately.

As for Ma – he can’t even get his conspiracy theory details straight. He’s a bold-faced liar and a distorter of the truth. What else is new?

And a Harvard education? C’mon. Dumbya was educated at Yale – so what?

I expect the U.S. media to make more glaring inaccuracies and biases in the next few days during the Ma visit.

6

More like a cheap soap opera.
Daytime TV at its worst.

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[quote=“STOP_Ma”]
I expect the U.S. media to make more glaring inaccuracies and biases in the next few days during the Ma visit.[/quote]

Please post them here. We can make a list.

8

A letter in the Taipei Times by Sing Young in
Taoyuan reads: “Case in point: the New York Times March 7 article which described the Taiwanese (Mainlander-dominated) police’s announcement of a suspect in the assassination attempt on Chen as “spinning the sort of story once found in dime-store novels.” The Times reporter sent the dispatch from Hong Kong, only a few hours after the police’s disclosure in Taiwan; he never set foot to Taiwan for that article and based his subjective claim entirely on hearsay out of Hong Kong.”

And let’s note, the Times later rewrote that sentence.

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[quote=“Cola”][quote=“STOP_Ma”]
I expect the U.S. media to make more glaring inaccuracies and biases in the next few days during the Ma visit.[/quote]Please post them here. We can make a list.[/quote][color=red]Typing with one hand may be hazardous to your intelligence.[/color]

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Can anybody find the actual correction on the Times website?

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[quote=“Cola”][quote=“STOP_Ma”]
I expect the U.S. media to make more glaring inaccuracies and biases in the next few days during the Ma visit.[/quote]

Please post them here. We can make a list.[/quote]

Well, here’s a knee-slapper from the LA Times, which ranks as one of the top 5 worst distorted articles about Taiwan in my recent memory.

Some laughable excerpts include:

The title of this alarmist report is: “Taiwan on Brink of Instability” :laughing:

Michael Turton is watching the U.S. media closely during the Ma visit, so I encourage everyone to read his analyses at A View from Taiwan.

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At times, the international media is just as bad.

Check out this “philosophical” caption on this BBC photo.

Yeah. And my “perceived hunger” is going to make me eat this “perceived sandwich”, too.

Let me put it another way: at what lattitude / longitude co-ordinates does this “perceived threat” turn into an “actual threat”?

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[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Typing with one hand may be hazardous to your intelligence.[/quote] :bravo: :laughing:

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“cheap dime store novel?” I like it, although I prefer “Even more buffoon-like than the Keystone Cops.” Who cares if the reporter was in Hong Kong. He still hit the nail squarely on the head. :laughing: Bunch of inept clowns.

15

I’m going to be Pan-Blue for a while.

STOP_Ma stop pretending that there wasn’t some cheap and dime store back on 319. The fact is the investigation of an attempt on the highest ranking official in the country was not clear cut. I’m not saying that Chen Yi-Hsiung did not pull the trigger, but the presidential bodyguards were incompetent. The fact that something like this could happen to the President says something cheap about Taiwan law enforcement. The investigation did not happen so cleanly that all doubts were left answered. The DPP say that they’re less corrupt than the KMT, and that may even be true, but it’s not because they’ve been able to do anything about the quality of law enforcement or investigation since Peng Wan-ru was slain. What happened on 319 says that law enforcement here sucks. It sucked under the KMT and the DPP clearly haven’t been busy doing anything about it.

In fact, let me rant. Ma Ying-Jeou will stop himself. If he shoves one more boot in his mouth before 2008, he’ll explode. The real problem is making sure that the DPP have any real form of opposition to make sure that government here works properly. With the keystone cops running the NPA, this is going to be quite a feat.

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[quote=“zarathustra”]I’m going to be Pan-Blue for a while.

STOP_Ma stop pretending that there wasn’t some cheap and dime store back on 319. The fact is the investigation of an attempt on the highest ranking official in the country was not clear cut. I’m not saying that Chen Yi-Hsiung did not pull the trigger, but the presidential bodyguards were incompetent. The fact that something like this could happen to the President says something cheap about Taiwan law enforcement. The investigation did not happen so cleanly that all doubts were left answered. The DPP say that they’re less corrupt than the KMT, and that may even be true, but it’s not because they’ve been able to do anything about the quality of law enforcement or investigation since Peng Wan-ru was slain. What happened on 319 says that law enforcement here sucks. It sucked under the KMT and the DPP clearly haven’t been busy doing anything about it.

In fact, let me rant. Ma Ying-Jeou will stop himself. If he shoves one more boot in his mouth before 2008, he’ll explode. The real problem is making sure that the DPP have any real form of opposition to make sure that government here works properly. With the keystone cops running the NPA, this is going to be quite a feat.[/quote]

First, let me say that I’m not really sure what the NY Times columnist meant by this “dime-store” remark.

If he meant that security was lax and the investigation was sloppy then you’ll get no argument from me.

If he meant that the the Taiwan investigators deserve no credit for finding the identity of the shooter, then I disagree.

Not having read the column, I can’t really comment too much on the article – however, I do know that the foreign media (especially the U.S. media) have a notable bias and lack of understanding when it comes to Taiwan.

17

It doesn’t exist, except in the imaginary world of TI and ROT.

18

If the quote appeared as quoted, why is it “incorrect?” It’s not a factual error that can be “corrected.” The writer is certainly free to qualify or retract his statement, but that doesn’t expunge it from history. I don’t see why someone quoting the article is obligated to point out that the writer had second thoughts.

But more importantly, why should a blatantly subjective remark by an ill-informed foreign reporter matter to anyone in Taiwan? Why this excessive fawning over the NY Times? Sure it’s a good paper, but infalliable Scripture it’s not.

19

[quote=“STOP_Ma”][quote=“zarathustra”]I’m going to be Pan-Blue for a while.

STOP_Ma stop pretending that there wasn’t some cheap and dime store back on 319. The fact is the investigation of an attempt on the highest ranking official in the country was not clear cut. I’m not saying that Chen Yi-Hsiung did not pull the trigger, but the presidential bodyguards were incompetent. The fact that something like this could happen to the President says something cheap about Taiwan law enforcement. The investigation did not happen so cleanly that all doubts were left answered. The DPP say that they’re less corrupt than the KMT, and that may even be true, but it’s not because they’ve been able to do anything about the quality of law enforcement or investigation since Peng Wan-ru was slain. What happened on 319 says that law enforcement here sucks. It sucked under the KMT and the DPP clearly haven’t been busy doing anything about it.

In fact, let me rant. Ma Ying-Jeou will stop himself. If he shoves one more boot in his mouth before 2008, he’ll explode. The real problem is making sure that the DPP have any real form of opposition to make sure that government here works properly. With the keystone cops running the NPA, this is going to be quite a feat.[/quote]

First, let me say that I’m not really sure what the NY Times columnist meant by this “dime-store” remark.

If he meant that security was lax and the investigation was sloppy then you’ll get no argument from me.

If he meant that the the Taiwan investigators deserve no credit for finding the identity of the shooter, then I disagree.

Not having read the column, I can’t really comment too much on the article – however, I do know that the foreign media (especially the U.S. media) have a notable bias and lack of understanding when it comes to Taiwan.[/quote]

Bizarre things happen because they are allowed to happen. If the NPA and their pals in the presidential bodyguard do what they’re paid to do then nothing would happen that is wierd enough to call ‘dime store’ - no matter which side of the Taiwan spectrum you’re from. The fact that DPP haven’t had the balls to do those things says ominous things about them.

20

CORRECTION & OOPS: Apparently, the entire March 7, 2005 article by the New York Times reporter has been deleted from the New York Times archives. Not a trace left. Conspiracy?

But here it is: !!! in GOOGLE. [Gotcha!]

nytimes.com/2005/03/07/inter … wanted=all

iht.com/articles/2005/03/07/news/taiwan.html

However, if you go to NYTimes archives at nytimes.com, and type in this info, nothing comes up. Strange. Deleted from Times archives but not from Internet spiderfiles. [hehe.]

…there never was a ‘‘CORRECTION’’ per se. All that really happened is that the first printing in the New York Times mothership paper used the phrase “Spinning a sequence of events worthy of a dime store novel…”

…while a later edition of the IHT, International Herald Tribune, also owned by the Times, changed the wording slightly to “Presenting a sequence of events worthy of a pulp crime novel…”

So there never was a correction per se. But there was a re-write which changed SPINNING to PRESENTING, and changed DIME STORY NOVEL to PULP CRIME NOVEL. (after the GIO complained to the Times in NYC)

That’s all. Tempest in a T(imes)-pot.

The pulp crime novel quote still stands. Just SPINNING changed to PRESENTING and dime store novel changed to pulp crime novel…

Wish Mayor Ma and the China Post editors would read the FINE print!