Look, everyone, the father did not ‘‘know’’ what he was doing. He was drunk, betel nut induced even more. He merely pushed her around, in his stupid drunken state, he was not trying to ‘‘solve’’ any problems or "teach’’ her anything, he was just drunkenly telling her to shut up. It was 1 am.
I have no compassion for that guy. He serves life in prison. No parole.
The 2 doctors deserve same.
Mayor Ma will be president someday.
I really wish the media focus would shift off of the doctors and on to the father, who is the real criminal in all this. Instead of the outrage at the medical system , there should be more outrage targeting domestic violence. Taiwan has the death penalty right? Really hope he gets it.
[quote=“lane119”]Look, everyone, the father did not ‘‘know’’ what he was doing. He was drunk, betel nut induced even more. He merely pushed her around, in his stupid drunken state, he was not trying to ‘‘solve’’ any problems or "teach’’ her anything, he was just drunkenly telling her to shut up. It was 1 am.
.[/quote]
I’m sorry, he “merely” pushed her around? And that is acceptable?
“He was drunk”…yeah, so what? It was demon rum that did it? Horse shit.
“He was drunkenly trying to shut her up.” Again, what a guy!
“It was 1 am.” WTF is your point here, late nights make drunk abusive people insane? My take might be, even if he hadn’t killed her, why the hell where you out, drunk, with your kid, in a nightmarket, at 1 am?
Why are you trying to defend this guy’s inhuman behavior? Why not blame his ex-wife for getting knocked up years ago?
ps: and you’ll vote for Ma? Wasn’t he the guy who originally said there would be no punishment handed out to the drs?
Drunkenness is not an excuse for hitting your kid. After all, more than a few dads have been drunk around their children on rare occasions without it meaning that they bet up the child.
Wait a minute, the man did not beat his kid to death. He did not murder her. He beat her, he smashed her up against a concrete wall, yes. And she got injured. Had she been taken care of quickly by the doctors, she would be alive among us today. It is the doctor at the first hospital who really “killed” this kid. Don’t forget.[/quote]
Bullshit. He contributed to it, but if the father hadn’t beaten the shit out of his kid to such a degree that she needed hospitalization in the first place, none of this would have happened. It’s not the father’s fault alone, but the bulk of the fault rests on his shoulders.[/quote]
Say hey for you legal beagles, doesn’t this give you flashbacks to your Torts class shudder 
Who gives a shit? I know plenty of people who don’t even hit adults when tired and drunk, let alone children.
I wonder what would do more to help prevent things like this from happening again:
or
Out of greed, fear and laziness people abuse each other all the time. We relish in it. Think it is funny. And then when the ultimate act of abuse happens we are suprised.
The oldest Hindu or Egyptian philosopher raised a corner of the veil from the statue of divinity; and still the trembling robe remains raised, and I gaze upon as fresh a glory as he did, since it was I in him that was once so bold, and it is he in me that now reviews the vision. - Henry David Thoreau.
Or to put it negatively, it was the self centeredness and violence in ourselves that killed that child.
Wait a minute, the man did not beat his kid to death. He did not murder her. He beat her, he smashed her up against a concrete wall, yes. And she got injured. Had she been taken care of quickly by the doctors, she would be alive among us today. It is the doctor at the first hospital who really “killed” this kid. Don’t forget.[/quote]
Nonsense. Let me get this right. I beat someone in the head. Now, according to you, my culpability in the matter depends on whether or not someone intervenes to absolve me of my blame. If a doctor refuses to treat the girl, he has killed her. If the doctor treats the girl, and she dies anyway, I have killed her. :loco:
I could have a lot of fun with this. OK. So I cut off a man’s arms and legs, and take him to a hospital. If they refuse to treat him, and he dies, they have killed him. If they treat him and he dies anyway, I have killed him. What happens if they negligently treat him? Do we share the blame?
It may interest you to know that all legal systems I know of, and certainly the British, Canadian, US, Australian, and Irish ones, hold that the person causing the injury which leads to the death is responsible for the homicide.
I’ve got one for you: What happens if I shoot at a corpse, thinking it is alive, and intending to kill the man (who is of course already dead) and the bullet ricochets off the ground and hits an elderly lady with heart diease who promptly has a heart attack. I rush her to hospital where she is treated for the gunshot wound only, but in fact dies of the heart attack. I did not know she had had a heart attack.
Who killed her?[/quote]
The question is a classic negligence tort question (in the US and probably most other common law countries like Britain, Australia). All of you are right. Check the doctrine of contributory negligence. Most US states no longer use contributory negligence due to the exact reasonings posted here and have adopted comparative negligence when assigning fault/blame/responsibility etc.
Honestly,
What is going on in your head? Hippy babble? Actual facts? claims to know how to end all child abuse?
Actual fact: Domestic Violence exists.
Actual Fact: whether or not a child is directly abused in the home the effects of domestic violence are damaging.
'Hippy Babble": I, like I should imagine many people would, would like to help to stop domestic violence. I don’t think it should have a place in society. It could take a long, long time, but that is not an excuse not to try to do something about it now.
It is not unimaginable that changes can be bought about. Societies do undergo overhauls. I’ve started looking into what Non Governmental organisations exist in Taiwan that deal with the effects of, and work towards the prevention of, domestic violence. I intend to do something about how I feel. Even if people only, as bob suggested start to raise the subject in disscussions it’s a start, to bring the issues out into the open.
Better still be able to point people who feel that they would like to see changes made in the direction of a website of an active NGO or two, if they’re up for it they can put their words into actions. ‘Hippy’? I call that being a normal, responsible member of society.
[quote=“jdsmith and tetsuo, were you missing the point? Lane119 also”] I have no compassion for that guy. He serves life in prison. No parole.
[/quote]
If we are getting into Taiwanese society’s responsibilities in child abuse, and I think we are, then I have a question, or maybe just an observation:
Why has there not been more public outcry to this case? Why no marches in the streets? I told my wife that this is one issure were I would actually walk down the streets of Taipei with a headband on, without hesistation.
Is there an embarrassing culture issue that I’m missing here? Collective loss of face?
[quote=“smithsgj”][quote=“jdsmith and tetsuo, were you missing the point? Lane119 also”] I have no compassion for that guy. He serves life in prison. No parole.
[/quote][/quote]
No, I did not miss that…nor did I miss where lane 119 says that the father was “merely” beating the kid, and that the father was drunk, as if that somehow explains/exonerates his violent behavior.
Lane 119 seems to want things to go both ways…
[quote=“smithsgj”][quote=“jdsmith and tetsuo, were you missing the point? Lane119 also”] I have no compassion for that guy. He serves life in prison. No parole.
[/quote][/quote]
No, I saw that. But the first half sounded remarkably like he was making excuses for the guy, and there are no legitimate excuses for something like that.
There may not be excuses but there are explanations. Or do you imagine that the abuse he suffered as a child had nothing to do with it? Do you imagine that the general atmosphere of competition and hostility that we call society had nothing to with it? Do you imagine the liquor store had nothing to do with it? How about the society that granted him custody in the first place or the family, neighbours and teachers who knew about this situation? Did they have too have nothing to do with it either?
I don’t know what should happen to this man but I certainly have compassion for him. He must be suffering right now more than any of us could even imagine. Or did you imagine that in the depth of his soul he actually “wanted” to kill his own child?
I agree that there is a level of culpability in most of those you state bob, but they’re not going to change by us saying pretty words, and they’re not going to undo what’s been done.
And I don’t for a minute buy into the “oh he was abused as a child so that’s why he did it” bullshit. Everyone, everyone is capable of controlling their own actions. You are not solely the product of your childhood. If being abused as a child was all it took to get adults abusing their children, there’d be a lot more of an already widespread thing.
The general state of fear and animosity in which so many of us live “is” going to be improved somewhat by some kind and careful words. If I didn’t believe that I would stop talking.
Human nature is a paradox. Each of us is a product of our environment but within this context we experience something like free will. But how free is that will really when the individual has never experienced kindness or compassion himself?
Bob and Tetsou,
I happen to agree with you BOTH.
I do not buy the “past determines the future” BS. This is just another way of saying, “it’s not my fault.” I do not believe that abuse beats the maturation process out of the person. People mature and upon reflection grow into better people. If this guy decided to get drunk for 20 years to help him deal with his pain, it is his fault, not his neighbors who failed to intervene. People who chose not to mature and become adult/children are responsible for themselves and their actions.
Now on the other side, is society responsible? No, not yet. But I will probably answer differently in 25 years. The world is so connected now, and it will get more connected. When it is, there will be no reason for backwards societies to ignore what more advanced societies have figured out. Exhibit A: you don’t brutallize children under any circumstance, and the brutalization of children is not tolerated under any circumstance.
This is getting close to the “Is one society better than another?” argument. I think some are. And I think most of them developed under both a market system and democracy. The behavior of this man, in particular AND the doctors who neglected to treat this little girl, should not and would not be tolerated in a truly advanced society. Sometimes, I feel Taiwan is flying by the seat of its pants.
People abuse their kids all the time in the West. This doctor was negligent and he is being hung out to dry for it. This is NOT an East West argument IMHO. Taiwan needs more social services, that fact is recognized, and they are being develpoed. No need to bash Taiwan over this one.
[quote=“rantheman”]imaniou,
the buttocks have a good amount of fat and muscle. as long as you don’t go nuts one or two slaps on the butt won’t kill them.[/quote]
I’m not certain that I agree entirely with Imani… but, I am certain that you have entirely missed her point.
There is a toll-free number you can call to report domestic violence and child abuse included. The name of the organization is called 家扶基金會 and the number is
[color=red]113
[/color]. It’s toll-free I think.