This boy is bright, has a strong sense of justice and is one of the more creative students in my class but recently has discovered or experimented with swearing and the like. Unfortunately, he also has a foul temper and an attitude problem.
He stepped well over the line yesterday when blatantly raising his middle finger in class (during my lesson) to my co-teacher. In some respects he has been treated unfairly in the past, but more often than not only THINKS he has.
After taking him out and lecturing him for 5 minutes (which is very unlike me). I felt responsible for taking him out as it was his behaviour during my lesson. In my anger,I told him I would be writing to his parents to explain that his behaviour was totally unacceptable and that he should write a letter of apology to the teacher involved, I still feel that I should follow through with this, but then again maybe I should leave it between themselves and not become involved.
Now I’ m not so sure how I will discipline him, if at all. Any comments would be appreciated.
Ask him to stand up in the fronmt of the class, and explain what he thinks it means in Chinese. Then ask him to say it 10 times loudly and clearly to the Chinese teacher in Mandarin.
Do anything but write the parents. I once wrote a student’s parents about their son cussing at me during a test. They never apologized, they only stated that he was talking to another girl and the comments were not aimed at me. It was an interesting response, especially since the girl their son was supposedly talking to was absent that day. Their response literally accused me of being a liar. I know how Taiwan parents are with their rods and I would never write parents without, first, being sure of the situation and only after repeated offenses.
On another note, I once gave a girl a low score on her test for cheating. She had ignored my repeated warnings to not turn her head and stare at her classmate’s test. After five warnings, I stood by her desk, she did not notice me, and she did it again. Once again I told not to turn her head. But by now she had already changed her incorrect answers. Well, I gave her a 60 for cheating. Anyway, her parents wrote a long letter stating that their daughter is an excellant student and would never cheat(they must not know their daughter that well, she had been punished by other teachers for cheating before). They demanded that I change her grade to 100… :bluemad:
I disagree Yapipi. The parents should be informed of their son’s behavior. Personally I would call them immediately but I realize Viba may be in a different situation than me as teacher/boss.
What’s right is right, and the parents should know what their children are doing. Hiding it from them is wrong regardless of their potential reaction. The people you talked to reacted poorly, but not all people here are that way. Not to say that this is the case, but if there is one person who wants to know against 99 who don’t want to hear it then it is worth it, no in fact a responsibility, to inform them.
On a practical level informing the parents may be enough to modify their son’s behavior.
What are your thoughts on my situation? There is a chinese kid who has been saying “f*ck you” to my first grader at school. My kid doesn’t like it, wants to know what it means. It has happened almost daily in the last week. I’m considering taking it to the teacher and/or principal so they will deal with this kid. What do you think?
I’ve stooped so low as to tell my son to tell this kid that if he says it to him again, my husband and I will come and have a talk with him or his parents.
In my opinion, this is violent language (not saying I haven’t used these words myself :embarassed:) and I think it borders on bullying. I know there will be different opinions on this so no flames please. But if you think about it, how do you feel when someone says this to you for no reason at all? Anger, right?
I once got fired for informing the parents about their brat’s behavior. Don’t inform the parents. Many of them can’t handle the truth and will put the blame on you for being a “bad teacher”.
Actually, I was kind of being sarcastic when I said not to talk to the parents. Most parents react well and are willing to help with their childrens’ problems, as most good parents should. But, the few times I have tried, I have not gotten the good parents. It is always a struggle.
braxtonhicks, there is a Chinese equivalent… But I am not sure if that would help. I went to a local school here when I was young and I ran into similar problems. Everytime, I was the one who ended up in trouble. If your child uttered a bad word in Chinese, in response, every student would rat on him/her. Some teachers don’t care if bad words are uttered in a foreign language, they just think that it is funny (they sadly seem to think that since it is in a foreign language it does not mean anything). Parents here usually jump to the defense of their children in public, to save face, but then “fix” (Chinese word for it) them in private. Point being, that I am not sure of the success of talking to the kids parents. Could go both ways… Some parents here are very polite and would make their child apologize. Others… well, anything could happen.
Ask the kid in a friendly fashion to show you what he did. Gently encircle his hand in yours, so that the offending digit protrudes and can’t go anywhere, then poke him in the eye with it. If he won’t cooperate then poke him in the eye with your finger.
Then explain to the whole class the meaning - the challenge - of the gesture, and ask if anyone else wants to challenge you.
I don’t teach kids because my methods would get me into trouble, so don’t follow my advice.
[quote=“stragbasher”]Then explain to the whole class the meaning - the challenge - of the gesture, and ask if anyone else wants to challenge you.
[/quote]
How would you expain the finger and the words? To me, the finger means “fuck you”… how about everyone else? I’m bothered that this kid is harassing my son, but I’d be even more bothered if he was harassing a girl with this language.
braxtonhicks, does your son’s school have any counseling staff that you could consult on this situation? It might be better to try them as intermediaries between you/your son and this brat kid. Before having to explain to your son what the expletive means. And before going directly to the parents.
“Fuck you” is basically an abbreviation of “I can/will fuck you”. It’s a challenge, an aggressive statement/gesture intend to assert dominance - I’m going to be on top, and you’re going to do whatever I say.
If someone gives you the finger you either accept the insult, and allow the ‘fingerer’ to assert their dominance over you, or you rise to the challenge and ‘make something of it’.
This kind of behaviour leads to violence - maybe just emotional/verbal violence as the protagonists face off, but it can easily escalate. Or the guy with the finger walks around with an over-inflated opinion of himself and a belief that it’s OK to push people around.
My ‘poking the guy in the eye with his own finger’ suggestion may be a bit extreme, but I do believe that you should bring home to kids the enormity of what they are doing. I’ve had kids swear at me in class before and challenged them on it. They were old enough and had good enough English to understand the explanation so my response has been to ask them what they mean (no real answer), then explain what they just said, and then put on my nasty face to ask them whether they really meant what they just said.
It’s very simple. You swear at people to get a reaction. Learn what that reaction is likely to be and you are less likely to provoke people without a good reason. It’s better coming from you now than learning the hard way when he arrives in LA.
Oddly enough, I used a Chinese Expression, that whilst not swearing, resulted in the person I said it to reacting badly to my choise of expression. I did that because of the context that I had learned the phrase in, and I didn’t properly understand how it could be used or should be used.
I suspect the same dynamics may be at play in Taiwan. The word f**k is often portrayed on TV as a common choice of expression, but the students never learn the subtleties of this choice of expression. Indeed, its usage is complicated, as this will be clear.
it seemed to me that how we (westerners) interpret the sign and how taiwanese kids use it are divergent. yes, it has nuanced meanings. as the adult/educator in such a relationship i would ask the kid if s/he knew what it meant. the ensuing shrug was always forthcoming. they saw it in a movie and picked up it’s rebellious power. i would tell them it means pretty much “go die” and is a sign of dislike. instead of scolding them in private, make a public discussion of it. enlighten them. one given a justification no one ever dropped it on me again. end of issue.
My dear American based colleague, you are far too kind.
I would beat the kid, at least light torture. Amazing the things you learn in high school about how to leave and not leave a mark. I find a nice serious private conversation about the dire consequences of pulling stupid stuff like that again normally solves any compliance problems. I normally have the conversation while doing my best Darth Vader “I find your lack of faith, disturbing” routines. Hence why I normally don’t teach children over 5 now.
CYA
Okami
PS hopefully this doesn’t run my chances of a job with DB.
BEIJING - A school principal killed two young brothers with an axe in front of their classmates, and then went to their home where he killed their mother. He then committed suicide, state media said yesterday.
Qiao Haijun went into two classrooms in a village school in Handan city in central China on Monday, killing a 14-year-old boy during a natural science class and then going to the boy’s seven-year-old brother’s class to kill him, said the Yanzhao Evening News in Hebei province.
Qiao then rushed to the boys’ home with the bloody axe in his hand and chopped their mother to death, the report added.
I haven’t hit a kid since I was a kid. But whether one favors corporal punishment or not, I don’t think it would be a good idea for me, a foreigner, to use any kind of corporal punishment.
I would tell the child to get out of my classroom and wait outside until I was ready to talk to them. Do not use please (it makes it seem like a request instead of a command). Do not accept any protests or questions:
“Why?”
“I’m not answering questions now. Just go.”
“No.”
“‘No’ is the answer to a question. I’m not asking you. I am telling you. Go.”
“I don’t want to go.”
“Your behavior tells me that you need to. I will talk to you outside.”
Turn your back to them to signify that the ‘conversation’ is over.
When you are able to go outside, tell them what they did (I saw you give Miss ____ a rude gesture). Ask them if they know what it means. Define it if they don’t know, emphasizing the fact that it is very offensive. Tell them how it made the teacher feel (It really made her feel upset and disappointed when she saw this gesture). Tell them how it makes you feel and your expectations (I know you are a bright student able to make good decisions. It disappoints me when a teacher feels threatened. It angers me to see such rude behavior. I expect all my students to treat others with respect. I also expect those who are disrespectful to do something to make up for their behavior). They are aware that this gesture has a negative connotation. They usually aren’t aware, however, of just how negative it is.
I had a four-year-old girl do this to me when I asked her if she was feeling okay after being grumpy. I stopped and took her aside away from the other children and asked her if she knew what it meant. She shook her head. I told her that showing that finger to someone is worse than telling them that you want to hit them and that it was like saying the meanest thing in the world to them. I asked her if that’s what she wanted to say to me. She shook her head again, began crying, and apologized. I haven’t seen her do it since then.
It’s similar to pretending to shoot people. One of the kindergarteners, of course being raised on junk TV, did it a few times. Again, I took him away from the eyes and ears of others and asked him “When people shoot guns at other people, what happens?” “They die,” he said. “Is that what you want to tell me to do?” “No, I was just playing.” “Shooting people hurts people. That’s not fun. It hurts my feelings to think that you want to hurt me.” “I don’t, really!” “Okay, then please don’t pretend to shoot me. There are better ways of playing with others.”
The sooner you make children aware of the meanings their gestures can have, the sooner they become more empathetic in the interactions.
:bluemad: