A BRICS thread

It’s been around for a while, personally I’m not impressed. I think we’re seeing more hype than results

There is this, I only read the abstract

Why BRICS Is No Threat to the Post-war Liberal World Order

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0020881719884449

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I read the abstract and skimmed most of the article, it’s very good but seem to be written before the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the liberal world orders response, which I would suggest has changed the calculus somewhat.

Some key points.

Surprisingly or not, the USA has been remarkably slow to admit its declining economic capacity and influence and share global economic decision-making power with the emerging economies. It still clings to a hegemonic role.

Very important point to those who argued that the West allow room for the developing countries to take a place at the table rather than cling to power by all means.

The USA, apart from its bid to maintain control over the post-war order undergirded by the Bretton Woods institutions, has often violated world order rules and even resorted to violence to protect its interests, imagined or real.

Yep, they are not playing fair. But the article goes on to point out there is no alternate world order in BRICS and there is no real cohesion between them and they are not all on the same page and that some of the goals seem lofty.

I would agree with all that, except with the response to Russia following the invasion of Ukraine, the kind of culture the West is currently trying to encourage others to adopt and green policies they are currently adopting in combination with ESG scores which will predictably be used against those countries outside of the liberal world order as leverage the writing is on the wall.

There’s a bit of panic in the rest of the world right now.

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2020, a handy thing about journal publications is they are always dated

I would argue the success of the western response has scared the Chinese into being desperate for an alternative financial that will protect them as they oppose the established order

If you mean wokeness, the west is hardly united. Otherwise, the west still remains the immigration destination of choice for most of the world.

Pretty hot these days, eh?

Yeah, China and Russia are bullies, and Russia invaded it’s neighbor right after China lost control of a dangerous virus they were playing with. Wildfires, glacial melt, and extreme weather are confirming climate change models. Most economies aren’t doing well. At this difficult time, Russia launched an unnecessary qar and China is pushing at borders (including against India, so much for BRICS working together).

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Well we are not saints either, let’s be clear, they are certainly pretty tyrannical regimes I can agree with that.

As for China losing control of a virus on it’s own back door step, that is one theory, the leading one. There are alternate theories which would make a lot of sense too. We just don’t talk about it on here.

Unimpressed people can still live in their shell.
Brazil buying Russia oil.
Russia selling its oil despite Western-led sanctions.
India buying Russia oil.
China buying Russia oil.
South Africa storing Russia oil and considering buying oil.

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Buying it because it is cheap.

Lol, wake up cheaple!

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Wasn’t sure where to put this fine example of how well these 2 of the BRICS are getting along

Because in realpolitik, there is no more of an emerging multipolar world order than there has ever been. There is only a -totally understandable- dislike of a unipolar world order with China trying to establish itself as first an equal and ultimately the more powerful of the superpowers. And obviously India and others aren’t interested in replacing one hegemon with another that will likely be less in their interests

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Taiwan is much more peaceful national than the USA from this wiki (a bit surprised Taiwan ranking is higher though, maybe they consider crime too though)

The problem in my opinion with political science is that it ignores the factors of sociology, psychology, and anthropology almost (but not quite) entirely

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Amen froggen men! A common thing that seems to be popular amongst reguritators :frowning: Number crunchers on paper arent nothing, but they also arent everything…Too many conversations surrounding china have this exact problem not being understood and debated further.

It doesn’t ignore these things

What will happen sooner? The coastal cities under water from climate change or BRICS becoming the next economic and political powerhouse?

BRICS has been said to be the next big thing since in was in school in 2010. Yet nothing much has come from it. There is potential but something is seriously wrong with these countries. It seems like their people just can’t get it together and make something of themselves. India can’t even make enough toilets.

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You’re not wrong. In the same sense science is absolutely about being unbias and testing ourselves wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. However, in practice…nuh uh.

Perhaps to fine tune @DogmaticStoic point is to say many people and writings tend not to adhere to the purest form of their trade and overall they dont give sociology, psychology, and anthropology the attention it actually deserves in regards to modern politics. We see this everyday with the china debates. people countering numbers with seemingly little regard to these realities that fundamentally form the base blocks for all conflicts.

To be very blunt, it is worrying.

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Should someone tell the Russians that China has a working station now?

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-07-24/russia-offers-brics-partners-a-module-on-its-planned-space-station

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Mr. Lula said he supported at least three countries joining BRICS: Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Argentina. He also suggested that Indonesia, which is widely seen as a natural fit given its size and location, would be a welcome addition.

An expansion, though, could make consensus in BRICS even more elusive. “When you have more countries join, and it’s such a disparate group to begin with, it’s harder to get anything accomplished,” said Theresa Fallon, director of the Center for Russia Europe Asia Studies in Brussels.

BRICS Debates Adding New Members - The New York Times (archive.is)

https://archive.is/LE6OG

Rumours swirl after Xi Jinping fails to give key Brics speech (msn.com)

Maybe Xi was passing around the new covid to the hotel staff?

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Russia now has a bunch of useless currency that they can’t offload elsewhere.

I don’t see BRICS amounting to jack squat. People may hate the US and the Western led rules based liberal order, but honestly, think about it, who else would you want running the show? the USA certainly is not perfect, but we’re dealing with a “cleanest dirty shirt” kind of situation here. The US doesn’t get enough credit for what they do to keep the world in the state it’s in. again, I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s about as good as it’s even been, and much of the world are a bunch of ungrateful c@#*$ for the security, order, stability and prosperity that America provides. The present era we live in is known, and will be known to history, as the Pax-Americana, or “American peace.”

If the world continues to deglobalize and if America continues to disengage with the world, then we will see more regional blocs popping up and instead of the harmonious cooperation that a bunch of diluted fools think will emerge, it will be whoever is the regional strongman dominating the weaker states around them, basically things will go back to how they were hundreds of years ago in those terms. people will no longer be able to interact economically with anyone anywhere for anything, for the most part, people will be confined to their region and perhaps allowed, or not allowed, to trade depending on the regional strongman.

And basically, since most countries have outsourced their security to the US, very few of them spend more than 2% of their GDP on defense. when the Americans pack up and go home and stop being “global police” many countries will be woefully unprepared for the world that will soon become. bottom line, the world will become a more brutal, complicated and less civilized place once the US ends its role as global hegemon.

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China seems to want to create a bipolar society economic model, one not based on the Breton Woods ideal of free trade, we’ll do security.

Go for it. Go spend your money.

I am nearly in full agreement with the tone of the rest of your post. :bowing:

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