Regardless of the clearly good reason for this, not sure the optics of boycotting a US company are ideal at the moment.
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I would like to get some measure of how people feel about this idea. Thanks to everybody who participates.
Temporary boycott of Apple for making Taiwanese manufacturers say ‘Made in China’
- I will boycott Apple from October 4-10.
- I will not boycott Apple from October 4-10, because it would harm Taiwan.
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I didn’t eat any apples today and China didn’t invade Taiwan. You are welcome, guys.
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I see what you mean now. I read your post as meaning you will boycott apple for 1 week. Which is useless. I see now you mean more organizing a large scale one. I do agree that if everyone, or at least an incredibly large percentile, can collectively boycott together at the same time (even if for only one week) that would send a great message. The organizing for such a thing is a different monster. I am with you in principle, but not in practicality. Boycotting fully is the best voice a single person has. Large groups can very much get things done faster even if for short bursts. fully agreed.
Edit for your poll. I am always on board with that 
but the small time frame and lack of reach and organization wont accomplish anything. one would think this could take a good year or so of planning and work.
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My apologies. Now I understand your 
point of view.
Even boycotting Apple’s cloud services would be effective…doesn’t have to be physical.
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Do Americans really identify with Apple as a quintessentially American company? If Apple is really so “American”, then that would make the ease with which they comply with Beijing’s demands all the more perplexing.
I just can’t imagine any Americans getting sore about a one-week consumer boycott in Taiwan. I strongly suspect it would earn admiration more than anything else.
Glad that you’re on board. That’s precisely the aim.
You could be right, but a one week boycott (to my mind) allows us to accelerate the process. Nobody is being asked to toss their Apples or never buy from them again. And, it does no material damage to Apple’s business or that of their Taiwanese suppliers.
Most importantly, Taiwan is not in control of the clock. Plus, Hong Kong didn’t need a year to get things rolling, and this is logistically much simpler and less controversial than taking over a legislative chamber. If Taiwanese really needed a year to organize a one week boycott (this one or another one), especially fresh off of a grayzone blockade, then I think negotiating the best possible surrender may be the best way forward.
Ultimately, I think the way to building this kind of peaceful mass action is done through conducting peaceful mass actions, not waiting until all the pieces are set just perfect. I am not speaking from experience, however, so I could be quite wrong.
Very good point.
I can. Not saying it necessarily would happen, but I can definitely imagine it. It would depend on the media treatment.
So if you boycott Apple for 2 weeks, what would you replace it with? You know android devices are just as Chinese made and Google is more aligned with China as Apple ever is.
It’s like boycotting Proctor and Gamble. They make so much stuff that boycotting them means not using any consumer items at all.
I suppose anything is possible, but I would regard it as extremely unlikely. Would you regard it as likely enough and serious enough to vote against attempting such a boycott?
I know the original post is long, and I apologize for that, but I would have to more or less have to copy and paste it here to reply to this.
Edit:
This is just going to intensify. The Taiwanese government is inevitably going to be hamstrung by geopolitical demands, but the Taiwanese people have an opportunity to make a statement.
Taiwan blames politics for cancellation of global Pride event | Reuters
I don’t think it’d make the news in the west other than a few tweets, to be honest. The media coverage of Taiwan over here (in the UK) suggests its some kind of militarised breakaway state that isn’t recognised by the UK because it’s chaotic and rebellious, rather than what it actually is.
I’ve said this before but I think Taiwan needs to (somehow) portray itself a bit better in Western media, hosting Worldpride would definitely be a step in the right direction (if it gets coverage over here)
The only way I can see Apple changing their policies to support Taiwan better is if shipments of Apple components were stopped at the ports or something of that nature (I am not suggesting and certainly not instigating this), but then again, this likely will be spun against Taiwan as it will have a knock-on effect to Western countries and their big scary inflation rates that everyone is currently consumed over.
Just my humble, one person opinion.
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No, I’m just raising it as something to think about. I don’t use Apple products anyway so my voice is moot I guess. FWIW I read about this briefly and I understand it only applies to products being exported to China for processing there. It’s not great but I’m not really upset about it under those circumstances.
Actually if I had to vote, under the circumstances, maybe that would be enough reason to make me vote no. I’d have to think about it a bit
Taiwan won’t be hosting it, because China got Interpride to scuttle it.
This is first and foremost about the Taiwanese people and their dignity.
I’m upset about the way China is strangling Taiwan and getting the international community to help do that on its behalf. I think if this is permitted to continue, it will fatally damage Taiwanese morale and a nation and its freedoms will be lost. I do not think this is hyperbole.
By “that”, you mean American fury over a temporary boycott in Taiwan over being forced to say their products are made in China?
If your point is that a one week boycott of Apple products would jeopardize the US’s interest in helping defend Taiwan from attack, I talked to a bunch of Americans tonight. I couldn’t find any who thought that would be the case. America has its own interests in the region. A Taiwanese unwillingness to resist was a bigger problem in their estimation. I do not think Taiwan’s foreign minister repeatedly saying Taiwan is ‘not afraid’ and Taiwan will ‘fight to the last day’ (whatever that means) has been especially convincing.
The two general objections I am reading thus far are that this ‘day of dignity’ boycott would do absolutely nothing and that it would threaten relations with Taiwan’s key ally. It feels very internet.
Taiwan is vulnerable to the current Chinese campaign of intimidation and demoralization, if people sit on their hands. The country was blockaded, and Taiwan’s military was, for obvious reasons, incapable of clearing it. However prudent it was for Taiwan’s military to not try to reopen the seas and skies, it is psychologically demoralizing. I am proposing a way for Taiwanese to build morale and build the habit of speaking up against bullies (and those who do their bidding).
This is first and foremost about Taiwan, not Apple. Apple just happened to choose to side with China after blockading Taiwan and, when this was picked up by international media, doubled the humiliation.
Like I said, I will boycott Apple October 4-10 in support of Taiwan’s dignity. If people have better ways to be proactive on countering China’s new campaign in Taiwan, I am all ears.
Like Guzifer Leong said, “Taiwan is Taiwan”.
Kaohsiung to Host WorldPride 2025 - YouTube
The price for saying that is that Taiwan lost the event. In exchange, Taiwan earns awareness and respect. I doubt that the international LGBTQ community is questioning Taiwan’s commitment to LGBTQ issues because the Taiwanese organizers insisted on using the name “Taiwan”.
I think the Taiwanese people and foreigners who want to support Taiwan should follow the Taiwanese LGBTQ community’s lead on taking stands for Taiwan’s dignity and trying to be as peaceful and creative as possible about it.
You also qualify to not buy Apple products on October 4-10! So, you can vote “Yes”.
No, just that the negatives could outweigh the benefits, in terms of promoting a positive image and achieving international space for Taiwan. Anyway, I don’t see much to it either way and this seems to be getting a bit contentious so I’ll back out.
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what I meant was in such short notice and low visibility for your cause, how many millions do you think will do this? I mean, I am all for it. I just think, pragmatically, it should be organized to get some quantity or it wont be noticed by anyone That’s what I assume takes a year, organizing to get 5 million people in one country on board. even then, likely difficult.
But, I am on board.
by proxy.
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The hollow Taiwanese declarations of fearlessness over the last two weeks have left me more shook than the Chinese blockade.
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How so? Actual declarations and acts not only get Taiwan into a clearly impossible war, but moreso gives the international community all the legal and social justifications to turn their backs on defending a moral cause and the victims that share the same beliefs. That is exactly what needs to change, and is also exactly what China is intentionally trying to provoke. And erode. The world has no right this day and age to play so naive.
I think you’re misreading me. You are contrasting my misgivings about “hollow declarations of fearlessness” with an advocacy of belligerent “declarations and acts”, but that is not at all what I am suggesting, as I think this thread illustrates.
It’s the hollowness that needs to change. I have the foreign minister primarily in mind, but also Taiwanese who are declaring that they will fight ‘when that day comes’. In the meantime, they will post these stupid emojis 
like it is still 2019.
If he says he is not scared, it’s because he is (a) an idiot, (b) a liar, (c) carrying a US passport, or (d) has a lot of money stashed away abroad. All of this bravado is cheap.
Same baloney as last year: Taiwan will fight ‘to the very last day’ if China attacks.
I don’t even know what the phrase ‘fight to the last day’ means. It sounds like something that somebody who thinks it sort of sounds like what a determined person might say would say. A Taiwanese friend told me they think he meant ‘fight to the last man’.
The defense minister “vowed a fight to the last man to defend the island’s sovereignty and democracy” two years ago. Maybe Wu just got the slogan mixed up.
I think it’s all bluff. It’s rhetoric that Westerners like to hear, makes for good media headlines and retweets, again with nonsense. I feel sorry for the mostly young people who are sincere and naive and will take this seriously and might throw away their lives well after Taiwan has been sold out and surrendered or left unprepared for war.
As I said before, I understand why Taiwan can’t take military action. For one, Taiwan can’t do a thing unless the US green lights it, and obviously the US is not going to green light jack squat. The US has shown itself completely unprepared for China’s strategy. China has redrawn the status quo, and it appears that the US can’t figure out how to stop it except through oblique means (sanctions, Chip 4 alliance, congressional delegations, rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric). I do not think I am the only one reading the situation this way. The US is way behind the curve.
The military/political/economic/social cost of reestablishing the status quo in the Strait would be so large for the US, which is already overstretched and doing nothing to prepare the American public for such a risk.
Japan is even farther behind despite being the one most at risk of annihilation by China. The Japanese PM just yesterday: “Prime Minster Fumio Kishida vowed on the anniversary of Japan’s World War Two surrender on Monday that his country would never again wage war”.
Japan PM vows no more war
Actually, neither he nor the Japanese have much of a choice, unless he is prepared to vow to surrender as well? In any case, it does not look like they will be revoking Article 9 anytime soon.
Neither the US nor the Japanese nor the Taiwanese are prepared to fight to restore the status quo ante either through military or economic means. When I saw the headline about Apple, that was the last straw for me. If the Chinese want to stop buying Taiwanese pineapples, that’s up to them, but it is clear they made a point of telling Apple to enforce this ‘made in China’ stuff just after having humiliated Taiwan and her allies with their military ‘exercises’. Forcing Taiwanese people to print ‘made in China’ at precisely that moment is a clear message to the Taiwanese people: “we can make you do whatever we want whenever we want; neither you nor any of your friends will do a goddamn thing about it”.
It’s true that Taiwan cannot engage in a solo trade war with China. I would not suggest that it ought to. But, not starting a war with China does not mean simply shrugging one’s shoulders. The Taiwanese can’t sanction Apple, because it would damage the Taiwanese economy too much. Fair enough. Taiwanese civil society is too lackadaisical to throw their iPhones into the ocean. Good. It would be a pointless gesture.
The reason I came up with the Apple boycott for October 10 is because I tried to design a masa action that would not threaten a war, not threaten an economic downturn, but would build the habit of mass action and counter China’s psychological campaign.
This guy telling me he is going to fight to the last day ain’t gonna cut it.
If he had come out and said soberly, ‘China’s actions are threatening; we are doing everything we can to mitigate that threat; the Taiwanese people need to prepare themselves for a long, hard road of struggle to preserve their democracy and way of life’. I would have found that somewhat reassuring. Churchill did not say ‘we are not afraid’. He said, ‘I only have blood, toil, tears, and sweat’ to offer.
This did not come from President Tsai either. Just a call for unity and a plea for the international community to recognize Taiwan’s innocence.
At this point, I am convinced that nobody has any real intention of fighting for Taiwan (except the Chinese). If they do, it will be accidental. It will all of a sudden dawn on them that there was never any other option. Except for those who can flee abroad, I mean.
Unfortunately, the Chinese are right. There is no more median line. They erased it. Last year, an ‘angry’ Taiwan told China to “back off” over mere claims from Beijing. Now China owns the median line. Who cares what the Taiwanese government says? It’s all bluster, and none of it is backed by the Taiwanese people.
There is neither a permanent boycott of Apple nor a temporary boycott of Apple nor any other mass action at all. I see no reason why I should believe anybody’s overblown rhetoric about fighting China or protecting Taiwan. The only ones I believe are sitting in Hong Kong jails.
So, to be clear, I am not calling for war or any type of belligerent action. I am calling for peaceful, active resistance for at least one week, but at the end of the day, it is not my country, and if nobody can be bothered, I will just look out for myself and the interests of my own community.
I think I am just repeating myself. I’ve said all I have to say about this. Everybody can do what they want, of course, and I hope everybody makes it through whatever is in store for Taiwan over the coming years safe and sound.
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I think you misread me. I mostly agree with all you are saying. However. If Taiwan actually stands up and fights, it will give the international governments a legal “out” and wont come to taiwans aid, likely. it is a hard spot to be for Taiwan to be big and tough because the world has been fairly clear on being ambiguous and that Taiwan should never rock the boat (even though we are being quasi “invaded” already). that’s the hollow issue I see that’s as important as Taiwanese individuals being scared and maybe not being noble front line soldiers. Without international support ,on paper, I honestly cant see how Taiwan could “man up”.