OK, would you think terms like “dry period”, “dry spell”, or “water shortage” would be more appropriate then? Are we possibly looking at an entrenched translation problem?
In Taiwanese news i see the expression 旱 for which i have found the following translations:
(To use these URLs, you need to copy the kanji/hanzi in by hand, it seems)
PS: in Japanese, i get these definitions of the character itself and compounds using it: aa.tufs.ac.jp/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
日照り; 旱; 旱り 【ひでり】 (n) dry weather; drought
男ひでり; 男旱り; 男旱 【おとこひでり】 (n) (See 女ひでり・おんなひでり) scarcity of eligible men
女ひでり; 女旱り; 女旱 【おんなひでり】 (n) (See 男旱・おとこひでり) woman shortage
旱害 【かんがい】 (n) drought damage
干天; 旱天 【かんてん】 (n) drought; dry weather
旱天慈雨 【かんてんじう】 (n) welcome (beneficial) rain in a drought; realization of something eagerly looked for; a welcome relief
干ばつ; 旱魃; 干魃 【かんばつ】 (n) drought; long spell (period) of dry weather
The problem is not about Taipei, however, its not that long ago that Taipei experienced water rationing (2002). The savings would be island wide and would provide an additional 45 days of water supply. I always new you would be unimpressed, too because of the blinkers.
Leakage is one of the main problems and one of the more solvable problems and you laugh it off like a smarty pants. 69444USD is not a lot of money. If you can reduce the problem by 14% in 3 years. How about upping the ante and reducing it by 100% for 500,000USD.
I imagine the economic loss from missing a planting season in the rice fields will soon cover the 500,000. So if the problem with providing adequate storage is finding suitable locations, polluted water ways, etc. then solving that problem would be of high priority.
Anyway I found a good article about water and storage etc. It is well worth reading for anyone interested. It clearly explains why Taiwan has a lack of water at times, where the water comes from etc. It is very informative. It’s from the GIO, nicely written in the Taiwan review.
[quote]According to the WRA, the annual precipitation in Taiwan is around 2,500 millimeters, or 90 billion metric tons, about 78 percent of which occurs in the wet season from May to October. Twenty-two percent of Taiwan’s rainfall evaporates quickly, 5 percent filters underground, and as much as 73 percent, or 65.6 billion metric tons, becomes surface water gathering in rivers and creeks. Of that 65.6 billion metric tons of surface water, however, only about 14 billion metric tons per year stays on the island long enough to be utilized–the rest quickly runs off into the ocean.
More water would be lost but for the more than 90 reservoirs and weirs around the island, about 40 of which the WRA considers to be “large” with storage of more than 200 million metric tons each. Together they provided 4.3 billion metric tons of water in 2007, or 24 percent of all the water used in Taiwan that year. Taiwan’s dams might not provide the majority of water used in Taiwan, but their role is a crucial one, as they supply about 70 percent of all tap water, a basic need for everyone. Water drawn directly from rivers accounts for 56 percent of the amount used in Taiwan; however, most of that is used for agriculture and falls below the standards for drinking water.
Two new reservoirs are expected to come online in the near future, but they could also be the last. Now under construction, the Hushan Reservoir in Yunlin County on Taiwan’s southwest coast is slated to start operations in 2014. Another in Miaoli County on the northwest coast is still in the early stages of planning, but is very likely to receive the go-ahead. [/quote]
I just bolded the last part to highlight the need for conservation policies such as leakage prevention.
[quote]And there isn’t a drought happening either. There is worry about one. And yes, in the past ther have been adverse living conditions, as water is shut off for days at a time in some areas, and industrial zones scale down production.
As an aside, but this whole thread for you Australians seems to come down to some perverse need to brag to the rest of us about how tough conditions are in the homeland. Of course i keep wondering how a people who try to set up ranching and farming in severe drought tricken regions have the audacity to lecture others about competence. (I’m teasing here if that isn’t clear.)[/quote]
I think the perception is that there is a drought happening and it is due to global warming:
[quote]Dr Wang Chung-ho, a research fellow at the Institute of Earth Sciences at Taiwan’s top think-tank Academia Sinica, told The Straits Times: “We can’t tell how long this one may last. But we’re worried it may surpass even that previous drought.” The phenomenon is likely due to global warming, he added, intensifying the frequency and severity of droughts in Taiwan over the past 40 years.
[/quote]
I’m sure Taiwan doesn’t have a drought. It has less rain at time in certain areas. For example last year in the Shihmen catchment area, it had 90% of its average rainfall of the past 10 years at 1551mm (avearge=1727) 1551 is 63 inches (CWB). It’s a lot of rain in anyone’s language.
According to Wookie’s photo it was pretty much full at the beginning of the year and almost empty now. If 20 to 30% of that is from leakage then that is a serious problem because it can empty in just a few months. 69444USD is not enough money to be throwing at that particular aspect, especially if it can empty so quickly through usage.
It’s hard ti tell if you aren’t completely trolling here fox. But I’ll play the game for a little while as long as you remain somewhat civil.
The TT reported that NT2 million or so was going to be spent to get Taiwan’s leakage rates down to world averages. Hmmm. Yes, sounds like a non brainer. Only the Commonwealth article i linked to on the other thread says that the figure is actually $27 billion. I know which figure I trust.
i was wrong to say authorities don’t believe we are in a drought. They believe we are in a long term drought cycle. c’est la vie.
[quote]The TT reported that NT2 million or so was going to be spent to get Taiwan’s leakage rates down to world averages. Hmmm. Yes, sounds like a non brainer. Only the Commonwealth article i linked to on the other thread says that the figure is actually $27 billion. I know which figure I trust.
[/quote]
Is it 27 billion to fix leakage or repair typhoon damage to reservoirs and maintain reservoir viability? I think its for that isn’t it?
Taiwan Water Corp. is in charge of delivery and pipes and they have allocated 69444USD.
Fox, you need to work on your routine a bit more. It’s amusing me but it isn’t funny.
Anyway, in case anyone thinks the TT posted correct figures, please reconsider. That paper is often off in their figures, sometimes within the same paragraph, and often confuses million with billion.
Yes, the TT’s figure is nonsense, as usual. NT$27.2 billion is the actual amount of Taiwan Water Corporation’s budget for reducing the piped-water leakage rate during 2009~2012.
[quote=“Taiwan Water Corporation”]降低漏水率
早期，囿於財源，台灣各地輸水、送水及配水系統多採用經濟管材。供水管線之接頭及閥控等亦多是早期落後器材，不耐重壓。而該等管線、零件長期飽受重車動態行駛輾壓且汰換率低，致漏水量相當驚人。
在缺水危機日亟的台灣，因「開源」相對不易的情況下，故「節流」益顯重要。本公司配合行政院「振興經濟新方案」，奉院核定「加速辦理降低自來水漏水率及穩定供水計畫」（98~101年），挹注特別預算198億元，其中降低漏水率部分為108億元，加上公司自籌164億元，合計共272億元，全力加速降低漏水。[/quote]
In essence, it says that when Taiwan’s water distribution infrastructure was built in the early days, fiscal constraints forced the use of cheaper piping materials. Also, the pipe-connection and other materials available back then were not very durable. Hence, the wear and tear over the years, especially from the vibration of heavy vehicles on the roadways under which the pipes are buried, and the low rate of pipe replacement, have resulted in a shockingly high rate of leakage (now officially put at 22%, though that’s not mentioned here). With Taiwan facing increasingly severe threat of water shortages, and with the relative difficulties involved in developing new water sources, it is essential to place emphasis on conserving available supplies. Accordingly, under the economic stimulus package introduced by the government in response to the 2008 recession, a special budget of NT$19.8 billion was allocated to a plan to accelerate the reduction of the piped-water leakage rate and stabilize the water supply during 2009 to 2012. NT$10.8 billion of this amount was specifically allocated for dealing with the leakage problem. Taiwan Water Corporation allocated a further NT$16.4 billion from its own funds for this purpose, making a grand total of NT$27.2 billion available for mending and replacing leaking pipes during the current 4-year period up to 2012.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]Fox, you need to work on your routine a bit more. It’s amusing me but it isn’t funny.
Anyway, in case anyone thinks the TT posted correct figures, please reconsider. That paper is often off in their figures, sometimes within the same paragraph, and often confuses million with billion.[/quote]
Well it appears I was wrong about that misled of course – 200 millionUSD is more like it and what I would have expected and hoped for. Of course leakage is still higher than the world average and that by itself is indicative of a sytemic failure presumably and so is the 200 million to remedy it.
According to this older artcle published by AmCham much of the problem with water has indeed been the result of incompetence such as polution, eutrification, making many of the reservoirs unviable they don’t quantify this, however: amcham.com.tw/content/view/382/301/
In defence of Fox’s original figure. It is possible that that was the actual amount of money that will actually get applied to the problem after all the various officials get their cut.
Edit: smily added to avoid people thinking I was serious
Yes, like, for example, 7 months: huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/1 … 63310.html
Maybe there’s been a kind of meaning inflation going on here while we weren’t paying attention.
What to do? What to do?
[quote=“Gman”]In defence of Fox’s original figure. It is possible that that was the actual amount of money that will actually get applied to the problem after all the various officials get their cut.
Edit: smily added to avoid people thinking I was serious[/quote]
Well I can only go by what I know, but I accept I should know better.
[quote] urodacus wrote:a drought isn’t measured in three or four month periods. a drought is much more prolonged than that
Yes, like, for example, 7 months: huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/1 … 63310.html
Maybe there’s been a kind of meaning inflation going on here while we weren’t paying attention.
What to do? What to do?[/quote]
Most definitely. However, I still think that there is not really a drought even technically in Taiwan. There is a water shortage bought about by neglect and Taiwan’s unique circumstances as they are unique to any country – partly historical, partly incompetence and wishful thinking, and partly just bad luck.
It rains a lot and has done so this year and the past year, too as the stats bear out. 90% of average rainfall in the last year in the Shihmen catchment area shouldn’t lead to a designation of drought. There must be systemic problems that lead to water shortages that are man made and can be mitigated by our own activity. I’m sure there is a solution out there. It might not have been properly conceived of yet but with this much rainfall there simply must be a reasonable solution.
I don’t see what’s wrong with the definition of drought based upon how the vegetation is doing. Everything around me is pretty green. In fact, it’s incredibly green. The argument that there’s a lot of rainfall, but it’s falling in the wrong places seems a bit odd to me. How damned unfair and inconvenient of the clouds to rain in the wrong places! Are the trees in the mountains dying? Are they dying anywhere else? People are the ones with a water problem. If the problem is that the rain is falling in the wrong places, then build dams in those places. Oh, we can’t, because people live there. People problem, not drought.
No not really, I was just making a wise crack really. I’ve stopped taking this thread too seriously some time ago. Rereading my comment I see I should have left out the “wrt to climate change” I was influenced by another article I was reading on that topic. Maybe I’ll edit it out but, probably not.
The problem is manifold. First, vegetation in tropical and subtropical regions has adapted to heavy rainfall in certain seasons. A drought could well be along without much change in the vegetation, especially if we are getting small amounts of rain (though not enough to affect resevoir levels).
Second, with respect to your contention that this is a people problem. No kidding. What in all the defintions that have been provided has convinced you that a lack of water sufficient for human habitation (including farming and industry) but enough for local vegetation is not a drought? I wish you guys would stop with the conjecture and spend a minute actually reading some of the source material provided. Droughts can and do happen in all climates, including rainy subtropical environments because the term is a relative one, defined against the norm, and not an absolute figure.
Third: as has been explained, rainfall amounts are irrelevant if the rain doesn’t fall in the manner and location that a water system was set up to exploit. 800000000m of rain a year in taiwan would still result in severe water shortages if it all fell in a couple days.
Mucha Man: Look, I agree, the drought has (fortunately!) finally returned, and now that the constant, heavy rain from the past few days has stopped, the kids at my school have had time to sweep great masses of water away. I mean, it’s not like anyone could have actually captured any of that water, right? Hence, the sweeping it away.
Less sarcasm, more thought, if that isn’t too much to ask. You are sounding a lot like the posters you frequently rail against for being unable to think their way out of (Taiwanese) drought-ridden paper bag.
Mucha Man: No, here’s a really simple concept. Don’t waste water. Build massive collection tanks everywhere. Build plants to recycle the water that is being used, rather than having one set of water that is used once. I can’t really feel much sympathy for people complaining about a lack of water when the same people waste so much water. So there’s supposedly a drought during winter. Go out to any farm in winter. How many have the sprinklers going full bore? How many are watering the road at the same time? How many are using drip irrigation (at night) to administer water straight to the roots of plants? How many are covering said irrigation systems and the ground with mulch to further reduce evaporation? If they were doing all of that and there was still some sort of major water shortage, then I could buy the argument that there’s a drought.
I think tanks everywhere is just repeating the same problem we have: namely what happens when it doesn’t rain much for most of the winter and spring. yes, I know where you are it’s fine, and in taipei as well, but not so much the south and centre. It would also be very costly to run pipes from all these tanks to treatment centres to make it potable. I honestly doubt it is a very good solution but you are welcome to use it to bash the government over the head with.
As for farmers, in many areas they use stream water. You see tanks everywhere in small village areas collecting water up in the hills. These are off the grid so to speak so however much they use is irrelevant.
I agree the solutions are not impossible and will require a combination of conservation, prevention of waste and better management. But like I’ve said, none of this is a sign that there is criminal negligence.
Land management: now that is a far more serious issue and one after typhoon Morakat that does rise to gross negligence. Two years later and we still haven’t got a land use bill that should have been passed 10 years ago. Disgraceful.
