A Drought -- you've got to be friggin' kidding me

[quote=“yuli”]Charlie Jack, things like that happen in all threads! And they don’t mean what you think it means…
This has happened to me more than once: I’ve just read the posts of X and Y and start formulating a response, which takes me some time, because I am going to reference some other document in that reply. In the meantime Z posts something, and when my post is done it ends up after Z’s post - and my post is perfectly out of sync, and I look like someone who can’t read (or worse).[/quote]

Exactly. My post was being put up while CJ was posting his. No big deal. At least if you are sane and wise. :bow:

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Muzha Man: Australia also has lots of mountains. My father had a Canadian friend in Australia who used to chuckle over all the hills with Mt in front of their name. I chuckle over the notion of a drought in Canada or Taiwan.

Likewise, Australia experiences snow, but if I told Europeans or North Americans that we’d had a particularly heavy snowfall one year because a couple of mountains (there’s that word again) had received an extra three inches of snow that winter, they’d laugh their arses off.

Getting less than average rainfall per year actually wouldn’t matter if they used water halfway efficiently here. If they did, they’d have too much of it. This can only be considered a water shortage or drought in the sense that it’s such a gross mismanagement of resources. There is no lack of rainfall. This is not a climatic issue.[/quote]

As I’ve noted, this isn’t much of an issue up north in Taipei. It is an issue in Taoyuan because of the conditions of Shimen Reservoir. Very silted and it also needs to be filled 5x a year to supply needs. It is also an issue in the south because of a shortage of rain. No amount of mismanagement would create a reservoir at 21% capacity. That’s weather related.

I regularly ride around Shimen Dam on the weekends.

This is what it was like very early this year on one of the few sunny days.

And this was what it was like two weekends ago.

Though the weather was quite rainy, it didn’t produce enough run-off in the catchment area of the dam, but the bigger problem is that the water authorities rely too heavily on nature and do not manage the water resources enough, if at all.

Everyone keeps saying that but what do they mean? I mean how is it managed in other places? In Vancouver we have reservoirs in the hills and we rely on snow melt to fill them. I mean not much management in that and there are many years where we have to go on water rationing measures because the snow pack was too little.

Short of covering Taiwan in more reservoirs what are people suggesting (improving transmission of water and raising prices has already been discussed)?

Education. Educating the public. Back in TO where water is hardly a scarce resource kids learn very early not to leave the faucet on while brushing their teeth, homeowners are encouraged to use water-saving shower heads, water their lawns in the evenings, etc. I automatically use water sparingly because it was taught to me when I was young. That attitude isn’t part of the local psyche.

[quote=“yuli”][quote=“Charlie Jack”]What a strange thing!

I post a quote from a website which is all about drought, and which characterizes, defines, and categorizes drought […]

And then you come back with this:

Charlie Jack, things like that happen in all threads! And they don’t mean what you think it means…
This has happened to me more than once: I’ve just read the posts of X and Y and start formulating a response, which takes me some time, because I am going to reference some other document in that reply. In the meantime Z posts something, and when my post is done it ends up after Z’s post - and my post is perfectly out of sync, and I look like someone who can’t read (or worse).


In short: quite obviously Muzha Man was not addressing you or your post. :slight_smile:

:2cents:[/quote]

That’s quite plausible, but my response had a little history behind it–and that’s setting aside the fact that, standing alone, the dressing-down of some of us for being deficient in that we hadn’t undertaken a serious study of an elaborately wrought a priori understanding of drought, which, you know, looks pretty a posteriori to me (I refer you to my earlier, related post about onager s***), was worthy of a response–but really our main shortcoming is that we’re not extensions of his personality (a tall order, by the way; it’s possible get in trouble with him for more or less agreeing with him–I guess you’ve got to word your agreement just so).

Nonetheless, :thumbsup: for trying to keep the peace. :laughing:

*Q

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled program:

[quote=“Charlie Jack”][quote=“yuli”][quote=“Charlie Jack”]What a strange thing!

I post a quote from a website which is all about drought, and which characterizes, defines, and categorizes drought […]

And then you come back with this:

Charlie Jack, things like that happen in all threads! And they don’t mean what you think it means…
This has happened to me more than once: I’ve just read the posts of X and Y and start formulating a response, which takes me some time, because I am going to reference some other document in that reply. In the meantime Z posts something, and when my post is done it ends up after Z’s post - and my post is perfectly out of sync, and I look like someone who can’t read (or worse).


In short: quite obviously Muzha Man was not addressing you or your post. :slight_smile:

:2cents:[/quote]

That’s quite plausible…
[/quote]

Plausible? I said above that is exactly the case. You’re weird, Charlie. Whatever I’ve done to make you act like a sniping grade 3 femme, I apologize sincerely. :notworthy:

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“Charlie Jack”][quote=“yuli”][quote=“Charlie Jack”]What a strange thing!

I post a quote from a website which is all about drought, and which characterizes, defines, and categorizes drought […]

And then you come back with this:

Charlie Jack, things like that happen in all threads! And they don’t mean what you think it means…
This has happened to me more than once: I’ve just read the posts of X and Y and start formulating a response, which takes me some time, because I am going to reference some other document in that reply. In the meantime Z posts something, and when my post is done it ends up after Z’s post - and my post is perfectly out of sync, and I look like someone who can’t read (or worse).


In short: quite obviously Muzha Man was not addressing you or your post. :slight_smile:

:2cents:[/quote]

That’s quite plausible…
[/quote]

Plausible? I said above that is exactly the case. You’re weird, Charlie. Whatever I’ve done to make you act like a sniping grade 3 femme, I apologize sincerely. :notworthy:[/quote]

I just see things differently from you, and you can’t accept that. Even if I hadn’t made that post, your approach to those who disagree with you is that their disagreement stems from their inferiority (e.g., that these people, some of whom are in their 40s and 50s, don’t know what a drought is). We all do that a little bit, but you do it a lot.

Nevertheless, I, too, apologize, for going off on you.

I come from a place–and in fact, a life–where, if there’s a problem, it’s usually a people problem at bottom (and I’m a people, too, and not immune to problems, and not immune to trying to ascribe my problems to outside factors). I usually look to the people side when I learn of a problem. That’s the way I see this problem. I don’t deny that there are technical aspects (meteorological, climatological, geological, hydrological, engineering, economic and financial), and I don’t deny that my understanding of those kinds of problems is limited, but to me, it still comes down to people.

And that’s based on a variety of experiences covering about half a century on this planet.

[quote=“Charlie Jack”]I come from a place–and in fact, a life–where, if there’s a problem, it’s usually a people problem at bottom (and I’m a people, too, and not immune to problems, and not immune to trying to ascribe my problems to outside factors). I usually look to the people side when I learn of a problem. That’s the way I see this problem. I don’t deny that there are technical aspects (meteorological, climatological, geological, hydrological, engineering, economic and financial), and I don’t deny that my understanding of those kinds of problems is limited, but to me, it still comes down to people.

And that’s based on a variety of experiences covering about half a century on this planet.[/quote]

No one, least of all me, has denied that mis-management of water resources is a huge problem. And I have not been condescending to anyone who holds that position since I hold it myself. My sarcasm, even contempt, was and is directed at those who post false numbers and conspiracy and then don’t own up to that. Or is it somehow my attitude that makes fox’s rainfall stats incorrect or the Ozzies limited definition of drought all that more limited? :unamused:

Could I be nicer to people who post shit? Sure, but I grow tired of every post about every topic being a veiled put down of this place. My coworkers wouldn’t help me this morning to get a coffee. ALL TAIWAN IS SELFISH. The girls at my school never exercise. NO ONE IN TAIWAN EXERCISES! I live in Wugu. ALL TAIWAN IS AN INDUSTRIAL HELLHOLE!

It’s tiring, depressing even, and turns off so many people from becoming members of Fcom. It also sours many members feelings about the country they live in. I have found over the years that a little bit of truth can really help people (including me) to deal with this place’s problems better whereas conspiracy and tangents and made-up facts just make it so much worse.

Anyway, I leave for Alaska tomorrow. This thread is now in your capable hands.

I was thinking this, too, as I have watched a construction site next to my gym spraying ENORMOUS amounts of water every day on the street outside the construction site. They do this all over the place, drought or not. The hose is on all frikkin day. What purpose does that serve? I don’t get it.[/quote]

I’ve seen that too. I’ve wondered if that water is even metered.[/quote]

They need to do it by law to reduce particulate matter in the air, i.e., dust. They cannot let any dirt leave the construction site.

It’s raining a lot out side today as the drought continues.

I’m not sure you can make a good comparison between Taiwan and Australia in this regard. Australia has a more than 200 times greater land area to support an equivalent population. A quick google check shows Australia receives maybe 450mm annual mean rainfall on this large area, in contrast to Taiwan’s 2500mm on a relatively small area.

Surely Taiwan could do more, but there don’t seem to be many easy solutions either. taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 2003468452 There are barriers to some of the obvious solutions. Improving the delivery system seems to be the big do-able no-brainer.

If you see a bear, be nice to it MM :slight_smile:

In response to a point in Muchaman’s last post:

This is not meant as a facetious comment, but what annoys me more is actually those who have a go at those who have a bit of a moan about Taiwan! Everytime I see a lighthearted thread here about comical language stories or dangerous traffic (or whatever), there’s a host of people who reply with “well if you don’t like it, leave!”. (Of course, this isn’t what Muchaman said above, nor has necessarily done, it’s just the general mentality I’m talking about here rather than him personally).

Obviously I can see why it might be annoying to see people constantly having a pop at the place you’ve made your long-term home, but equally everyone’s gonna suffer from a bit of culture shock (/clash) at some point, and it’s often fun to have a moan and share stories. Doesn’t necessarily mean everyone’s hatin’ on Taiwan. If anything, one of the best reasons about the “living in Taiwan” forum is all the moaning (and the arguing)!

Anyway, this isn’t really about the thread at hand, just something I’ve noticed around here.

[quote=“Horza”]In response to a point in Muchaman’s last post:

This is not meant as a facetious comment, but what annoys me more is actually those who have a go at those who have a bit of a moan about Taiwan! Everytime I see a lighthearted thread here about comical language stories or dangerous traffic (or whatever), there’s a host of people who reply with “well if you don’t like it, leave!”. [/quote]

It’s just droughtism. People who know what a drought is are being vilified by bozos who wouldn’t know the difference between a drought and drowning.

The people of Taiwan are suffering horribly. It turns out that during this hideous drought, especially in the south in places like Pingtung, Kauhsiung, Alishan, and Taitung they just can’t get enough water at 2846 mm, 2159.5 mm, 3654.6 mm, and 2000 mm these desperate counties only recorded greater than high rain fall classification on the Koppen Climate Index one desperate place by 60% and the other by 200% in 2010.

Koppen climate classification

Rain forests are characterized by high rainfall, with definitions setting minimum normal annual rainfall between 1,750 millimetres (69 in) and 2,000 millimetres (79 in).[72]

It’s truly horrible:

Gosh, can I ever leave this thread. :laughing:

Once again I apologize for pointing out the false statements made by fox. I did not think an Australian would be so sensitive to loss of face but I guess one does pick up the local habits. Sorry fox. :bow:

Gosh, can I ever leave this thread. :laughing:

Once again I apologize for pointing out the false statements made by fox. I did not think an Australian would be so sensitive to loss of face but I guess one does pick up the local habits. Sorry fox. :bow:[/quote]

Wrong statistics I think you’ll find. The statements were true and remain true. Taiwan is suffering from a once in a 40-year drought. I was glad when I got a good statistical source. It has allowed me to prove emphatically that Taiwan is being brutalized by this unrelenting drought, especially in Nantzu in Kauhsiung:

Or in Pingtung, one of the hardest hit by the drought:

Unforeseen anomalies, Fox! You SURELY cannot expect the fine stalwarts that run this GREAT, GREAT country to divert just a few paltry billion of, say, their “defense” funds, or maybe their Forex (FOURTH-LARGEST IN THE WORLD WOOHOO!!!) to … Oh! I dunno! Just a thought… DREDGE a few fucking reservoirs?
Utter and complete inept (and very very very likely criminal) mismanagement. Pure and simple.

[quote=“Mucha Man”]. . . I grow tired of every post about every topic being a veiled put down of this place.[/quote] Point taken. I think I understand now. Sorry for getting crossways with you. :bow:

Hope you check those faucets before you go.

Just kidding! (about checking your faucets, not about seeing your point)

I hear you guys have droughts in Australia, Fox. Especially in Queensland. This is just a few months ago. Looks pretty bad:

[quote=“Mucha Man”]I hear you guys have droughts in Australia, Fox. Especially in Queensland. This is just a few months ago. Looks pretty bad:

[/quote]

We do, except we have another word for it. We call it rain.

[quote]Unforeseen anomalies, Fox! You SURELY cannot expect the fine stalwarts that run this GREAT, GREAT country to divert just a few paltry billion of, say, their “defense” funds, or maybe their Forex (FOURTH-LARGEST IN THE WORLD WOOHOO!!!) to … Oh! I dunno! Just a thought… DREDGE a few fucking reservoirs?
Utter and complete inept (and very very very likely criminal) mismanagement. Pure and simple.[/quote]

Stop making sense. I’m waiting for them to start rolling out the desalination equipment. I suggest some of these naysayers get a head of the curve on that one and put a little of their hard-earned where their mouths are.

No really, the Queensland droughts. We’ve been hearing about them for years. Maybe the last decade. Hell, they had droughts even when I was there in 86. They do look severe.

I mean with droughts like that I can see why you have contempt for Taiwan’s troubles.