You’re absolutely right. Here in Ontario we have a literacy examination in Grade 10. Many native speakers of English cannot pass it. Subsequently, they are not able to receive their Grade 12 diplomas and enter college or university.// Incidentally, the ‘literacy’ test can be taken either in written or oral form…it has to do with receptive language skills; ability to formulate an argument, etc.
ACdropout-
how will they see failures? i simply don’t get it. maybe the Taiwanese ppl my parents hang out with are just different… but i actually see successes more often than not.
cornelldesi,
You have family friends that have USA citizenship and went back to Taiwan to make a living permenantly, and there was no value judgement on their decision.
Not the tansient got to stop by and check on a subsidary in Taiwan type of people, but gave up their USA citizenship and have decided to go back to Taiwan and scratch out a living in the low and middle class.
Yes, it would be a major loss of face to emigrate…only to return. Can’t believe I never thought about the ‘face’ thing before.// Is there any positive attribute to the concept of ‘face’? I am so glad I don’t have to live the ‘what will the neighbours think?’ mentality. Restrictive. However, having said that, I have met many Taiwanese who emigrated to NA, didn’t like it, and then returned Taiwan. I think their neighbors should take it as more of a compliment!!! As in, I missed you guys so much! // Here is another idea: a lot of people emigrate TO SAVE FACE in the first place. For example, some people (through standardized testing from a very young age) realize their kids aren’t going to kick ass in the local Taiwanese school system and may even be sub-standard in terms of performance, so to save face…they emigrate. In North America, their kids turn out to be top students because of the ‘different learning styles’ and all that jazz…even though the parents secretly hate North Americans and yearn to go back home. Just a thought. Emigration of middle class Taiwanese to North America is somehow related to ‘pride.’
[quote=“SuchAFob”][quote=“pissedpookie”][quote=“SuchAFob”][quote=“pissedpookie”]
Hmmmm… perhaps I should be the posterchild of why Western women don’t want to date Taiwanese men (although I’m pure Hostess). 
)[/quote]
Doesn’t count. Most of the issues addressed are cultural, not racial.
You don’t think I’m culturally Asian growing up with an Asian mother as the primary parent?[/quote]
I grew up with Israeli parents but I am an American. If you didn’t grow up in Taiwan, you grew up in a different culture.[/quote][/quote]
Yes, but it doesn’t mean my personal culture isn’t closer to Taiwanese than stock “American”. As such, my world view and reaction to stimuli could mirror Taiwanese culture a lot closer than American culture. And it does, if people repeatedly telling me that “I’m too Taiwanese” is any indication.
Furthermore, culture is transmitted primarily through parents. Seeing as my aforementioned primary parent was Taiwanese, I think that’s a pretty good indicator too.
Now why are you trying to tell me what I am again?
You are not (by what YOU have a said) a person who grew up in Taiwan. Thus you are someone with a different cultural upbringing.
Now if I am wrong. And you did grow up in Taiwan, then I am sorry. But if you didn’t, you grew up in a different society, surrounded by different mores, surrounded by different laws and (oh this is a big one) a different educational system.
And I find it rather amusing how you are reacting to all this even after YOU have called yourself a Twinkie. (what is that, “white on the inside…”)
YAY! I got floundered!!!
No one said you weren’t asian, BTW. I said you didn’t count as the local men we were talking about. I think someone is a llittle touchy.
[quote=“SuchAFob”]You are not (by what YOU have a said) a person who grew up in Taiwan. Thus you are someone with a different cultural upbringing.
Now if I am wrong. And you did grow up in Taiwan, then I am sorry. But if you didn’t, you grew up in a different society, surrounded by different mores, surrounded by different laws and (oh this is a big one) a different educational system.
And I find it rather amusing how you are reacting to all this even after YOU have called yourself a Twinkie. (what is that, “white on the inside…”)[/quote]
It’s one thing when I state something, it’s another thing entirely when YOU tell me what I am. I find it no different from me calling you an ugly, white cow. It’s my opinion, but it sure as hell doesn’t make you less angry for having been called it.
Furthermore, I love how you snipped your completely assinine comment and my relatively level response to it. Nice cover-up, mod.
I did grow up in Taiwan, as well as the U.S. Cultural identity is a gradient. I identify with my Taiwanese background a lot more than my Caucasian one. But thanks for checking first, before making a whole lot of statements about what I am.
My mistake. You’re not the mod. Someone else is.
I may be, if you could develop some objective way of determining it, less “Taiwanese” than the men you are talking about, but again, it’s not for you to say. As I stated earlier, it’s a gradient and things bleed through.
Enh. That came out a little wrong. I apologize to the mod for my comment about a “cover-up”. That was uncalled for. You were doing your job.
[quote=“SuchAFob”]YAY! I got floundered!!!
No one said you weren’t Asian, BTW. I said you didn’t count as the local men we were talking about. I think someone is a llittle touchy.[/quote]
No. What you said was that my “posterchildism” didn’t count because I’m not culturally Taiwanese. And I argue that my background is very Taiwanese, even given the circumstances, making me, more or less, “Taiwanese” somewhere on the gradient.
I understand your point as well. It’s just that the manner you delivered it caused a bit of a flare up on my side.
You do a lot of flaring up it seems.
I think you being touchy about the subject caused the flare up on your side.
Then again you do very easily flare. (which I am sure adds for much entertainment to your real life friends)
Please explain to me how this "Doesn’t count. Most of the issues addressed are cultural, not racial. " is an inflammatory statement?
And explain it in a way that does not include your personal issues with people having said things to you in a certain way your whole life my problem.
SuchAFob>
It was dismissive, based on an assumption. In being so, you assumed to know me. That WAS arrogant and ignorant. I was trying to smooth things over and see things for your side, but if you want to keep playing the alpha bitch, fine.
It’s not your problem. I don’t have delusions of persecution about EVERYTHING, as you seem to think. But I do have a right to say it’s lame for you to tell me what I am.
You still have shown absolutely no recognition to my arguments about culture. I’m beginning to think it’s simply out of your reach.
bob> If there weren’t so many walnut-brained, immature English teachers here, I probably wouldn’t flare up so much.
I am not “ABC” but I am close. I moved to Texas when I was 8 and basically become American, because I pretty much didn’t want to get near any Asian (I somehow couldn’t trust them, because they seem to only care about money) and so I lost my Chinese writing skill and all, plus I started listening to heavy metal/hard rock/ 70’s stuff, and I found chinese pop music annoying (actually I don’t like ANY pop music, western or chinese) and I was having dreams about playing heavy metal in front of everyone, with the guitar amp (something like Marshall JCM800 with 2 of those huge cabs) turned to 11. I was having a lot of trouble adjusting to Taiwan because I speak perfect english, I can’'t speak or understand Taiwanese, I can’t write chinese… I can speak it and all, but have trouble writing them because they are so complicated. I got teased alot in the Military (I had to serve them… no way around it) and people found reason to make my life hell.
You assume to know me. You call me a fat white cow. I am not fat or white.
You called yourself (YOU CALLED YOURSELF) a twinkie. Are you too stupid to see what comes out of your own keyboard? I didn’t start that on an assumption. I said you don’t count (being the twinkie that you called yourself in the directly previous post) because this is cultural.
If you don’t want people to say or think you are something, don’t tell people you are.
Of course this is my last attempt of explaining this to you. Because it is clear to me that you have the "everyone judges me blah blah blah"chip so big on your shoulder that you can’t even see that you started this.
typically i get a lot of asians commenting that i look like a mix of caucassian and chinese. i moved state side when i was 5 and pretty much only went to taiwan to visit a total of 4 or 5 times. typical visit would last 2-3 weeks. my chinese accent ranges from pretty good to really heavy. my vocab is lacking, and my reading/writing skills are rudimentary at best.
relocating to taiwan has been fairly eventless. i dont get any harrassment about being ABC, but then i havent had much time to meet people. the biggest problem i’ve had was with the constant, terrible obentos that my company makes me eat. going to fast food restaraunts in taiwan have been fairly simple. the ladies at subways in hsinchu science park prefer that i use english since my chinese for the ingredients is terrible, lol. the times i have been alone and had language difficulty, there has always been someone with some skill in english to help out. or i’ve been able to describe it in some wierd chinese-with-english-grammar-and-thinking.
overall it’s been a fun learning experience. wish the ladies paid more attention to me tho. i met some friends who say they know that there are some chicks who think everything foreign is great and wonderful. i keep asking them for proof.
PissedPookster, I somehow sense an identity crisis and that’s fine. You’re defending your heritage which is alittle much because I do remember you stating that you are hapa? I’d have to agree with SuchaFob. Your identity is form by your surroundings and in your case, you were raised in the States (?). You seem to be American more than you are Taiwanese or Asian.
I’m mix blood of Irish/French and Native Canadian Indian but ya don’t see me performing a rain dance while guzzling a bottle of Bourdeux wearing a four leafed clover in my hat. OH wait…ya would…I’m Canadian.
My earlier point was simple. My friends back home claim to Asian pride in such a way and yet they’ve never set foot in an Asian country. Just because you went to a few Asian Jams (asian parties) in the west, doesn’t make ya Asian.
It’s just my humble opinion man. No need to riled up about it. If ya feel more comfortable around asian folks who make you feel whole, than so be it.
Pdk902, I’m surprised that there are not more ladies hunting you down. The friends I’ve made in Taipei who happen to be ABC/CBC are harassed constantly when they go out. The ladies love ya! You can give them a unique perspective on the world that they lack here without the judgement of their family or friends unlike a white or black foreigner would.
Saturday morning. Excuse me if I’m not making much sense.
A lot of people don’t seem to “get it” about the existence of ABC, Latino/a, African-American, Asian-American, etc. identities. Of course self-segregation is problematic. But these kinds of dash-American identities exist because the normative, mainstream white culture that gets portrayed on tv and that most Americans assume, does not fully represent these people. People who use dash-american identities do so because mainstream white culture does not fully accept them as American in all circumstances. That’s something that a “Welsh-born Canadian” doesn’t have direct personal experience of: the way that these groups of people are excluded from mainstream culture. They create those kinds of identities because their experience is not the same as the typical mainstream white American (or Canadian). Outside culture says “hey, you’re different,” and they respond by acknolwedging it and trying to make it a matter of pride rather than scorn. But the separate identity won’t go away until the mainstream culture lets them in, and blaming it on the self-segregation response isn’t really productive.
“German-American” or “Irish-American” are terms that did make sense at one point in time. In the 19th century, there was a lot of anti-Irish discrimination in the East; plenty of anti-German sentiment in the early 20th century. But as time wore on, and (it must be said) new waves of even more exotic “others” showed up, those distinctions became less important, and the separate identity shrunk a lot. You can see the “fossils” of this in different US regional attitudes towards ethnicity: on the East Coast, which was settled back when a lot of those differences really, really mattered, there’s a big awareness of “Oh, I’m Irish” or “Oh, I’m Polish” etc. As you go out west towards Texas, California, that sort of thing, it becomes more of a “Oh, I’m white,” or “Oh, I’m black” – the categories of white ethnicity collapse, so that basically nobody cares if you’re Irish or Polish, etc. [Though there are some families and individuals that work very hard to preserve ethnic identity, in which case German-American, Polish-American, etc. might make sense – I know a guy whose parents immigrated from Germany and who was educated in a German school in NY; he is an authentic German-American (though he is not a German except by passport).]
But that’s why there is an embrace towards Asian (aka Asian-American) identity: it’s not that “Oh, I’ve been to a couple Asian Jams, therefore I must be just like Beijing ren,” it’s this realization – that for a lot of people first happens in college, which is why you see increasing ethnic identification at that time – that all the little subtle racisms and ways of excluding you as an Asian-American from the mainstream culture have happened to other people too. Your experiences are not unique, there are others with your experiences. So you want to bond with them. They’re with you, when the rest of the culture has never 100% accepted you. Sometimes this is mis-expressed by reference to a homeland, whose culture they don’t really share; but the reality is that the Chinese-American (for example) experience, and thus Chinese-American culture, is neither the same as Chinese culture NOR as [white] American culture. Just as African-American culture is neither African (a hopelessly broad classification anyway) nor mainstream-white-American. Both are some third (and fourth) thing, separate identities based on shared experiences.
Now maybe we don’t like that (America should be a melting pot!) or maybe we do (let a hundred flowers bloom in our national stir fry). Either way, the only way it’ll change is for the white folks to stop defining others as “others,” and for the others also to follow suit. Self-segregation doesn’t of itself create dash-american identities, and it’s only rare cases where it can really perpetuate them if the mainstream doesn’t help it out.
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