[quote]Well it is usually assumed that an ABC will not be working 24/7 for the rest of their lives just to send their kids to college. America is their country now. So they can be just as lazy as the next American to live the “Dream” life.
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Um, I don’t necessarily see it this way. It completely depends. My parents had to work their ass off to even stay in the US. My dad had to wash dishes to pay for his college tuition and support me and my mom when we just came to the US. Everyone had gone through stuff here before if you immigrated in the 70’s and 80’s. Those were tough times. I remember my dad trying to get a job moving around in Texas and some hotels wouldn’t even let us stay cause for some fucked up reason (racially based).
Most of my parents friends who immigrated worked their ass off even until today. A lot of them were laid off recently because of the whole computer industry bubble, but at least their sons went to med schools, became lawyers, and bankers and making big bucks. Their parents suffered a lot.
When I come to Taiwan, I do see a lot of hardworking people. But I also see very many young people who are lazy. Especially in college. The drive is not apparent for most young people and entrepenuerism isn’t as evident as in some American youths. I don’t know if it is cause its NJ or what, but my family is part of the Chinese + Taiwanese associations there. Almost every parent is bragging about what their sons and daughters are doing. However, these parents are not rich at all – very far from it. They really struggled a shitload to stay in the US.
struggling with:
-language
-culture
-getting a job (with no green card in the beginning)
-Foreign degree (much harder to find a job in the states)
-limited promotions
-this all causes money problems…
----why did they choose not to come back?
because the education at the time (70-80’s) was not good in Taiwan.
I don’t know about now.
But we definitely do not live like the most recent wave of immigrants who travel from Taiwan to US more frequently, have much more money than previous immigrants, and a different work ethic mindset.
Actually I think you take it too seriously. When I first met you, I found out your name, said, ok or oh, nonchalantly. You then proceeded to tell me that you are Canadian in tones that could be taken as rude. I know of stagbasher, we’ve had a few drinks, and really I don’t care about who or what his gf is or is from, but that night, you took it far too seriously.
I don’t take offense to it, I just think it’s amusing. And it’s completely understandable. If you see a non-Asian foreign guy with a Chinese-looking girl, she is much more likely than not to be Taiwanese.
Btw, I usually don’t tell strangers where I’m from unless I’m asked.
[quote=“aprimo”]I don’t take offense to it, I just think it’s amusing. And it’s completely understandable. If you see a non-Asian foreign guy with a Chinese-looking girl, she is much more likely than not to be Taiwanese.
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Yeah, it’s like, in Taiwan, if you see a Chinese-looking person, they’re more than likely to be Taiwanese.
Now you are touching on the really issue of why ROC people immigrate in the first place. For most it is almost impossible to climb the social economic ladder as an 1st generation immigrant, no matter what education or social standing your family might have had in Taiwan.
So a lot of hope is placed on the next generation. Our success or failure is reflected back on the parents. I never like this beat the Jones’ game either with kids growing up in NYC. But in long run we do have it much easier than our parents if we choose to settle down in the USA.
The reason why most don’t go back is an asian face issue again. They will go back and be seen as failures. That and they are too adjusted to life overseas to put up with the nonsense in Taiwan now.
I knew 1 family that went back because it was too hard for them to make it in the USA. And due to the pressures at their new jobs in ROC. They were force to renounce their USA citizenship because of peer pressure.
I can understand if she presented the USA passport for entry into the USA. Have you seen the lines at international airports in the USA for non-USA passport holders. It’s a nightmare.
But what advantage could one gain by having an exit stamp on a Passport? Is there a particular reason your wife is doing this? Or is it just symbolic in nature?
It is totally, 100% legal for minors to hold multiple passports and get them stamped. However, under US law, once you’re over 21 yrs or something like that, you have to choose your allegiance and be either/or…not supposed to hold dual citizenship anymore UNLESS it’s Canadian-American. Those are the rules, I didn’t make them up.///
" ABC son has only visited Taiwan but he is as Taiwanese & Chinese in spirit and culture as he is American. We know that each individual has the capacity to embrace and participate in more than one culture. "
Do you believe that each individual has an infinite capacity for language acquisition? Do you believe that your son can be equally loyal to Taiwan, US, and China…even when those 3 cultures sometimes contradict each other? How will you feel if you son grows up to marry an American who can’t speak Chinese and then your grandchildren can’t speak Chinese? GET REAL. People aren’t omnipotent. You can’t learn everything about each of these cultures…something will be lost. I have met many Overseas Chinese who know DICK…absolutely nothing…of Taiwan and can speak marginal Chinese at best while their parents are living life with their heads in the sand Stateside, believing they’ve raised ‘good Chinese sons & daughters’…the only thing Chinese about them is the way they look. They’re Americans now…and what’s wrong with that?
As long as you can curse in 2 languages it is all good.
Just vote KMT, Democrat, and CCP. There is common platform somewhere. Or don’t vote and its all the same.
Disown the bugger and make another kid. He’ll get it right eventually. Anyways divorce rate is 50% in the USA. He’ll have another chance to get it right the next time down the aisle.
Have you seen the matrix. But with the advent of the internet, its getting much point where information is ubiquitous.
Well I’m the extreme opposite of the case you describe. So it is possible. Lots of work on the individual ABC part, but not impossible.
That’s really a choice for the kid to make. If he wants to be totally bi-cultural and fluent in both culture it is that individual’s right. If that individual wants to be totally assimilated into USA mainstream culture and forget that their Chinese, it’s their right as well. If an ABC wants to reclaim their birthright of being Chinese, power to them as well.
Please not everyone forms their identity around political rhetorics or geographic boarders.
Many people in Europe and even a young lady home schooled on the Galapagos, have mastered 10 languages.
I will certainly admit that it is possible for a human being to master 10 languages. I will even admit that it is possible for a human being to ‘master’ 15 languages. I am an optimistic about the possibilities of the human brain. However, I am also a pragmatist…who reads a ton of linguistics journals…and I KNOW that the percentage of the population in any country who have mastered more than 3 languages (birfructalism) is INFINTISEMAL. For your son’s sake, I hope that he masters 4 or 5 languages. In terms of reality, I would be willing to be that he masters one language and gains fluency in a second.// However, there is a new phenomenon cropping up these days: some Overseas Chinese have masterd neither English, nor their parents’ native tongue. This can have far-reaching effects on cognition.
As for ‘Overseas Chinese’ who know very little to nothing about Taiwan, for the obvious reason that they have never lived in Taiwan or China and have marginal language abilities…it is what it is: a subculture.
Weren’t there theorist that once stating it was impossible for a bubble bee to fly. We’re taking about two languages only. Not impossible. There are no cognitive issues. They will not become social misfits or asian gangsters or white washed twinkie banannas.
Those kids you mentioned are usually abandoned in the USA while their parents go back to Taiwan or where not schooled properly in the USA. Has nothing to do with an individuals desire to learn and what they are able to learn. I’ve seen Taiwanese kids grow up in the USA and speak Cantonese perfectly. Language is just a tool for survival.
Not everyone needs or has to ability to write college thesis in two languages.
A bubble bee? :saywhat:
I wouldn’t call them ‘abandoned’. In most cases the parents are working hard (if not harder) in Taiwan to pay for their children’s living expense and education overseas. Whether or not that’s the best thing to do is a whole other issue.
thats true, some of them do work harder in Taiwan to support their children in the states. However, I think the trend these days are that it is just way too expensive to live in the states, many opt for N.Zealand, Canada, etc.
Well, the Taiwanese I met in the states are pretty rich though for the most part.
“Not everyone needs or has to ability to write college thesis in two languages…”
I was responding to a previous post when I used the word “mastered” a language…which would include being able to write a college-level essay.
On this topic of ABCs…I have to laugh…my Korean friend brought her kids from Korean to North America to ‘get a leg up in life’ and prepare them for university here…and now she’s peeved that they are both dating ‘foreigners’ (a.k.a the people who live here). Well, what the #$@% did she expect to happen? They are teenagers. Walking hormones, essentially. Were they supposed to stay chaste until a fully Korean prospect came along?
It’s all just so…ironic. There is obviously something she likes about North America…but she only wants her children to acquire certain parts of it. She probably wished she could dissect North America and remove the parts that seem ‘most Korean’ to her. She is petrified that they will turn North American…yet they are at a very impressionable age, and probably will. She can blame herself. She’s the one who brought them here in the first place.
Maybe a community college level essay in the weaker language. But it really depends on the individual. Out of all my ABC friends there only a handful of us that are completely bilingual and bicultural enough pass overselves off as native in North America and Asia. Our parents usually invested quite a bit in our language training so that we end up this way.
Language is just a tool in the end.
As for ABCorean (anti-Japanese are we) it is nothing new. I know of some foriegner that come to Taiwan when they are young and marry the native…how scandalous.
I can point to all of Vancouver and Richmond as a location with Asians and non-asians are intermingling in Canada. I think my cousin is chasing Honger or Taiwan tail in that city.
Tiggerrr,
I’m not saying the parent did not in their own special way try to make sure their kids could make in North America. But it does leave a potential for these kids to get into a lot of trouble and forget about their studies.
Using that definition, some people never ‘master’ their first language! I’m not quite sure what that has to do with the topic at this point, just thought I’d mention it. I’m sure some people achieve competence in each of two languages to a higher level than some people manage in one.
