That’s right. Not “rapist” excommunicated. The “doctors”. In fact anyone involved according the reports from a TV station interview notes. So, raping kiddies is OK with the Roman Catholic church (how many kiddie-fucking priests have been excommunicated) but aborting a child rapist’s foetus is not. This act was sanctioned by the High Court of Colombia. Obviously that’s irrelevant to the Vatican which sees itself as the sole repository of the law for RCs, but this is a specific post about a specific case, not a theology debate. I find this hard to believe, even though I am from Northern Ireland where we casually murder each other over issues such as the Intercession, transubstantiation, and the real meaning of Vatican 2*. (Yeah right)
That’s a nice story. I am genuinely interested in the views of Roman Catholics on this, in the following context:
The girl’s step-father, also a Roman Catholic, who had been raping and abusing the girl since she was seven, was NOT excommunicated.
None of the Roman Catholic priests who have been caught raping and sexually abusing young girls and boys has been excommunicated.
Surely this is simply medieval? Are people still being burnt at the stake? How can anyone want anything to do with an organisation that would force an 11-year old raped by her step-father to bear that child? THIS is your God? Really. I don’t get it.
Should the 11-year old girl be excommunicated too?
Here you have a bunch a “religious” people debating the point that the doctors “excommunicated themselves”. Wow. This makes me very angry. Remember, these people believe that a man was killed and then came back to life three days later as he was “the son of god”. If they do not believe that in the strictest literal terms, they are hypocrites. As well as sick sociopaths. Jesus wept. Indeed the Jesus of the gospels would strike these people down where they stand. Makes me want to go out and burn a church down. These fuckers are so wrapped up in their intellectual masturbation that they would force an 11-year old girl to carry a child rapist’s child to full term and give birth to it. If that does not make you sick to your stomach then you have serious ethical issues, IMHO.
I assume Protestantism has its own version of this ultra-fundamentalist shite. And this is different from the Taliban in what way exactly?
*The Pope’s second album, released in the early 1960s.
Lets try and seperate this despicable situation from the usual anti-Christianity blather that is SOP for this type of subject.
Some more on this:
[quote]Colombia Media Reports Wrong on Catholic Excommunication Over Abortion
by Steven Ertelt, LifeNews.com Editor, August 31, 2006
Bogota, Colombia (LifeNews.com) – News outlets in Colombia are coming under fire for falsely reporting that a leading bishop in the Catholic Church indicated anyone involved in a recent abortion of the baby of a raped 11 year-old girl would be excommunicated. Other news agencies such as LifeNews.com relied on those reports for the latest in an ongoing controversy.
The reports were the latest in a fierce battle over abortion in this South American nation and Colombia’s leading newspapers yesterday featured headline articles about the excommunication.
However, the bishop quoted in the articles says the story is false lifenews.com/nat2557.html[/quote]
More controversy in an historically controversial machine.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Lets try and separate this despicable situation from the usual anti-Christianity blather that is SOP for this type of subject.
Some more on this:
[quote]Colombia Media Reports Wrong on Catholic Excommunication Over Abortion
by Steven Ertelt, LifeNews.com Editor, August 31, 2006
Bogota, Colombia (LifeNews.com) – News outlets in Colombia are coming under fire for falsely reporting that blah, blah, blah, blah, in a recent abortion of the baby , blah, blah, whatever. . . [/quote][/quote]
Ha, ha, ha. :roflmao:
Now there’s an unbiased “news” source on the subject. Lifenews.com? Who was the reporter on that story, Jerry Falfell? Jeff Gannon? Incidentally, I also highlighted the part about aborting a baby because that clearly shows (as if the name of their organization isn’t enough proof) that your “news article” is simply christian anti-choice propaganda. It was a fetus that was aborted, not a baby, and I don’t believe anything else reported by that organization.
However, I believe the OP asked some valid questions. For god’s sake, if anyone should be excommunicated it should be the rapist (or the many priest pedophile/rapists) not the doctors. But I’m not a catholic, I guess I wouldn’t understand their “logic.”
The thing is, if they want to push their anti-abortion agenda, that’s fine. But the OP is correct: why the heck are they so lienent on the rapists in their midst? Doesn’t that double-standard/hypocrisy/lack of credible ethics and integrity undermine whatever decent, legitimate, good actions they might take?
This is not the first time this has happened. I appreciate Tainan Cowboy’s caveat, but it remains to be seen whether the journalist or the church is lying here.
[quote=“Lord Lucan”]This is not the first time this has happened. I appreciate Tainan Cowboy’s caveat, but it remains to be seen whether the journalist or the church is lying here.[/quote]LL -
My money says both are spinning like atomic tops to CYA on this story.
On one hand I agree. WooTiDo. Kick me from a church and let me cry.
On the other, Catholics think that this bars them from heaven. So for a catholic this is a horrible fate.
The girl’s step-father, also a Roman Catholic, who had been raping and abusing the girl since she was seven, was NOT excommunicated.[/quote] Please read the link you posted again. This is what it said:
[quote]
[color=darkred]Cardinal Alfonso Llopez Trujillo announced Tuesday that the Colombian Catholic Church has excommunicated all persons involved in obtaining an abortion for an 11-year-old girl, who became pregnant after she was raped.
The order includes the judges, politicians and legislators involved in the decision, as well as the doctors, nurses and the girl’s parents, the Manila Bulletin Online reported today.[/color][/quote] The order includes her parents.
[quote]
2. None of the Roman Catholic priests who have been caught raping and sexually abusing young girls and boys has been excommunicated.[/quote] No, as of 2002, a meeting with PP II, a statement was issued. This is part of their explanation.
opinionet.com/article.php?id=353
[quote] “While recognizing that the Code of Canon law already contains a judicial process for the dismissal of priests guilty of sexually abusing minors, we will also propose a special process for cases which are not notorious, but where the diocesan bishop considers the priest a threat for the protection of children and young people, in order to avoid grave scandal in the future and to safeguard the common good of the church.”[/quote]
[quote]Surely this is simply medieval? Are people still being burnt at the stake? How can anyone want anything to do with an organization that would force an 11-year old raped by her step-father to bear that child? THIS is your God? Really. I don’t get it.[/quote] There are many things currently going on in this world that could be considered medieval. And God has nothing to do with it. I was raised with the idea that God has given us free will. Because he created us in His image as well as gave man rule over everything (Genesis). In the Old Testament there is this sense of a wrathful and angry God. Yet, God was seeing that this wasn’t leading his children toward him, but away from him. So, in order for him to grasp the concept of sin and human suffering, he incarnated as Christ. Who is His son. (You do the math on that one.)
Nonetheless, Christ’s message and work was to draw people closer to God, letting them know that he isn’t an angry God, but one of love and cares deeply for all his people, sinless and sinners alike. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. Christ is an intercery of sorts. In the Old Testament we had the high priest Melchizedek, who was considered to be the closest to God’s “ear”. Once Christ came, there was a change in God’s laws, Hebrews 7:15 “He became a priest not by meeting the old requirements of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he said of Christ “You are a priest forever. In the line of Melchizedek”. Now, I ran on about that to point out that this ideology has nothing to do with the Cannons of the Church, which should be considered separate, IMO. Even thought they use the bible to create their Cannons.
[quote]
Should the 11-year old girl be excommunicated too? [/quote]No, as she hasn’t gone thru confirmation, therefore, she really isn’t ‘apart’ of the church
Yes, the doctors excommunicated themselves, but you also failed to mention this:
[quote]The secretary of Colombia’s Episcopal Conference, Monsignor Fabian Marulanda, said he doubted that the Vatican would take the formal steps of excommunicating the doctors, but that the doctors should consider themselves excommunicated until they submit to penance.[/quote] Unless they give a confession and repent for their sin, then they aren’t’ allowed to participate in Church activities.
So you wag your finger at the Catholic Church for basically carrying out their laws. And condemning them for something they’ve been clear on for centuries. Well, thems the breaks. All were adults involved, aside from the child. If this was truly important for them then I guess they had to do what they had to do. If they want to be back in the Church’s good graces, then they have the option of penance.
I rather be excommunicated from Church, than to live in South Dakota, where a governor can rewrite the Supreme Court decision of Roe VS. Wade, because it suits him.
[quote]
South Dakota lawmakers yesterday approved the nation’s most far-reaching ban on abortion, setting the stage for new legal challenges that its supporters say they hope lead to an overturning of Roe v. Wade .
And while you’re at it, should you be from the States, take a strong look at Bush’s record on abortion rights. They have backslid so much that it’s not even funny.
[quote=“Namahottie”]
I rather be excommunicated from Church, than to live in South Dakota,[/quote]
You’re an American, you can live where you like.
[quote=“Namahottie”]where a governor can rewrite the Supreme Court decision of Roe VS. Wade, because it suits him.
[quote]
South Dakota lawmakers yesterday approved the nation’s most far-reaching ban on abortion, setting the stage for new legal challenges that its supporters say they hope lead to an overturning of Roe v. Wade .[/quote] [/quote]
The governor didn’t rewrite anything. Your link says that it was the South Dakota legislature…governers don’t make law…they enforce laws passed by the legislature. And in the US, state governors and legislators are elected by the people. The US Supreme Court is not elected and thus can do whatever it wants regardless of what the majority of the citizens may like or dislike.
The girl’s step-father, also a Roman Catholic, who had been raping and abusing the girl since she was seven, was NOT excommunicated.[/quote] Please read the link you posted again. This is what it said:
Re-re-read, it states “all persons involved in obtaining an abortion for an 11-year-old girl”, “includes […] the girl’s parents”. That suggests if he was involved in obtaining the abortion he would be excommunicated, but not for the rape.
[quote=“Lord Lucan”]
I assume Protestantism has its own version of this ultra-fundamentalist shite. And this is different from the Taliban in what way exactly?[/quote]
Women aren’t paraded before crowds in soccer stadiums before being shot in the back of the head with an AK-47…that’s just for starters.
The girl’s step-father, also a Roman Catholic, who had been raping and abusing the girl since she was seven, was NOT excommunicated.[/quote] Please read the link you posted again. This is what it said:
Re-re-read, it states “all persons involved in obtaining an abortion for an 11-year-old girl”, “includes […] the girl’s parents”. That suggests if he was involved in obtaining the abortion he would be excommunicated, but not for the rape.[/quote]
Yes, but the OP’s post focused on the fact that the parents were excommunicated for the abortion not the rape. And given the current position that the Church is taking concering rape, pointing out that it wasn’t for the rape is irrelavent(sp).
[quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Lord Lucan”]
I assume Protestantism has its own version of this ultra-fundamentalist shite. And this is different from the Taliban in what way exactly?[/quote]
Women aren’t paraded before crowds in soccer stadiums before being shot in the back of the head with an AK-47…that’s just for starters.
[/quote]
That image has nothing to do with Catholicism. Let’s stay on topic, if we’re gonna debate/argue/discuss/ponder about the OP’s original post.
[quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Lord Lucan”]
I assume Protestantism has its own version of this ultra-fundamentalist shite. And this is different from the Taliban in what way exactly?[/quote]
Women aren’t paraded before crowds in soccer stadiums before being shot in the back of the head with an AK-47…that’s just for starters.
[/quote]
You can do better than that!!! I was relying on your contribution!
It’s a fucker when God is invoked to justify man’s evil visited upon a child.
Let him that is without sin… (Hey, this is theology!)
I think the problem here is that for Catholics (and many other Christian denominations), murder is a special category of sin.
Worst Sins-
Unforgivable Sins
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
Murder
Forgivable, Yet Heinous Sins
3. Rape
4. Adultery, Sodomy
5. Heresy
6. Pretty much everything else that causes great pain to others
So, while 1&2 ensure you of everlasing damnation, things on 3,4, and 5 can eventually be forgiven. If you are damned, then excommunication is called for. If you have some chance of forgiveness from God, you can stay in the Church, as long as your membership does not cause others to leave the faith (which is why heretics get kicked out).
