On a never ending pursuit of an option to control these things. Any farmers, gardeners, animal hobbyiats, chemists, creative people have any ideas or experience?
Note: every permaculture person mentions ducks. They probably havent lived in the tropics with this species but they get way too big and hard for ducks.
Trying iron phosphate now but its not sold in bait form in taiwan that i can tell.
Night of beers on me if anyone has an effective sollition!
I can pick up 10 os kgs a night if i really want to strain my back…
First part of my answer
It’s late, and I don’t understand your question
Do you have problems with ducks or African snails?
…
Ducks do very well here in central Taiwan
no matter in the plains or in the mountains
They are not afraid of snakes and other predators
…
But obviously your problem is about African snails
You want them… or you don’t want them?
If you don’t want them, why do you pretend to do permaculture?
Permaculture is about to understand your land and live with it
Or you pretend to do permaculture, and do what you want to do
…
Do like my friend… Grow snails, and sell them! He is rich now, very rich!
Let me complete my answer asap
i dont want this species of snail. Im fine with the others.
On permaculture, i dont practice it tightly. Its like a religion almost a cult. Same with “natural” farming geoups in taiwan. Love them to death, but a bit unrealistic often times. That said i have many friends and customers who are and i tend to always get the exact same answer you gave about working with your environment etc but without any suggestions or experiences. Ive been doing this a while and am good with balance and have great success. That said this is an insanely unnatural, tip the balance kind of invasive species. I only mention the duck thing cause thats everyones first answer to snails, but they dont work with this species.
Yes selling them (snails) for food is profitable, thats why they have devasted taiwan (farmed release/escape). But farming them is where there is money. Picking up wild ones is not profitable or good on your back. At 15 to 30nt a jin, farmed is the only way to go. Plus there are real food safety concerns with wild snails.
Anyway, its a serious question about an incredibly serious problem here. Suggestions?
Sorry no solution, but I’d be very wary of touching them with your bare hands given the nasty parasites a lot of them carry.
The only containment would seem to be working with your neighbors to try and catch at least the bigger ones which do the most damage. It might be possible to train a dog to go fetch them but then there’s the parasite concern again.
They do seem to thrive in Taiwan’s climate. After prolonged heavy rain they come out from wherever they normally hang out and climb to higher ground and up trees. After Typhoons there are vast numbers of them around the cycling paths in Bitan, some of the locals go around collecting them, not sure if it’s for pest control or dinner!
The known predators are… The hermit crab is one of the most dangerous predators to the Achatinafulica and has been known to use the shell as its home. The coconut crab also views the Achatinafulica as a delicacy. The domesticated duck along with a vast variety of other bird species forage on Giant African Snails. Other mammals such as the wild pig prey on Achatinafulica.
SEE! I knew someone would mention damn ducks again! Im not getting into the duck thing haha!! they dont work. truly. trust me. they eat some small ones, thats it. chickens too…
And yes, Achatina fulica. Common names arent that good, sorry, we should always try to use the scientific name. apologies (+1 for biology forum naming ) and they are friggen impossible to manage. Back home in Canada i used to breed these things for pets and for monitor lizard food. i sold 1cm babies for $5 CDN each, about $125nt. oh the irony of my fate plant propagating here…
“So did they become a pest here because farmers imported them to grow for food originally ?”
Yes. basically. they were, and still are, farmed commercially for food here. in fact a good chance your canned escargot isnt that lovely slimy french species but this diseased goon cut into pieces. To add salt to the wound, they breed new morphs/varieties that taste better. Every time i see a new color form im delighted inside followed by a swift feeling of i need to grab a bat and find that farmer.
@keroliver
hermit crabs have 2 issues. one is they live by the ocean, so only coastal areas can benefit. and truly coastal farms dont have a massive snail issue as they are somewhat sensitive to salt (spray). They are also not big, so dont affect the big snails i wouldn’t think, but not sure. im interested in reading more about this though.
as an aside, ive tried raising different, or catching and observing, firefly species. they were studied in depth by the government a while ago as well as various fireflies are snail eaters. same problem as a duck though, only eat the small ones.
from my previous breeding in canada in captivity ive seen: snails have 30-90 eggs a piece. they breed all year if weather favors them (it doesnt in Taiwan lowlands, so call it 6 months on 6 months off in general, higher mountains that are wetter are all year breeding). they can bred after about 5 months. they eat everything. not just plants but dead animals, concrete, clothing etc etc. plastic seems not on the menu though.
in the wild they dig down to lay eggs. they also dig down and rest in dry weather. so its not easy to kill them during this time as they are not easily found.
big ones dont break when stepped on. so duck beaks stand little chance. probably ducks only really take care of 2cm and under. but ducks sleep at night, snails are not often out in the day unless rainy or wet. so even if all the snails are duck sized, they probably can only encounter 10% of them over time and then its iffy if they actually eat them. so not reliable. plus the crops that are mostly damaged by snails are sensitive to ducks as well (often, not always). trees are so much easier, but we wont only eat tree crops, so the issue needs to be resolved, and the poisons used currently are not an ideal solution as they are proven to harm mammals, birds, soil fauna such as earthworms etc.
so…? hows to kill the buggers? and their babies too!
If you want to go nuclear on the problem then encircle your land with a concrete ditch filled with salt water. Buy a shed load of ducks and fireflys and fill your land. Organize daily treasure hunts after it rains ala the Triffid hunters. Within a few years you might have the problem under control!
On a serious note, these buggers are bad news. According to Snail Stuff, "The natural predators of this species are caterpillars, ground beetles, other species of snails, and many types of vertebrates. " but most of those are also going to destroy your crops.
I am living in the countryside and growing vegetables and fruit trees. The snails can be a big problem. Luckily for us our snail population has declined. I hope that is due to our destroying all snails we encounter. Perhaps our area just has less than you do.
I can only suggest:
-keep killing as many as possible…who know? you may still get ahead of the population
if possible find a neighbor who feeds the snails to their chickens/ducks. I sometimes see the snail collectors come to the land next to us collecting snails at night. I have yet to find anyone who collects to eat, including the aboriginals we talked to.
-we had slight success with putting hollow concrete blocks around our garden and base of our fruit trees. The snails tend to go into the holes and stay there instead of climbing out and into the garden. This only helps a little.
In my experience the only effective way to control them is a strong heel to crush them and perseverance. I’m half kidding…I mean you need to pick them up regularly (every day!), after dark using a flashlight to search them out. The best time to pick them up is during a summer rainy evening following several days without rain. Under such circumstances they crawl out of their shelter en masse…After a while of this regimen, they’ll get noticeably less numerous, but don’t expect to eradicate them, that’s simply impossible.
I do permaculture but I’m not dogmatic. In five years I used metaldhyde based pellets 2 times (the only pesticide I used.) The first time it was for protecting some roselle seedlings and recently for protecting a fruit tree seedling which got all its new growth eaten by those snails (I don’t mind some damage, but in this case it was a matter of life or death, and I didn’t want to lose a rare fruit species…)
I didn’t scatter those pellets directly on the soil, but I used an empty milk bottle on which I made an entry hole for the snails. Most of the time the snails will die inside the bottle or next to it, so I can easily collect them before they get eaten by something else (I don’t want to poison non-target animals)
Metaldehyde is not persistent in the soil and degrades into non-toxic by-products (CO2 and water) BUT it’s semi-persistent in water, takes a much longer time to degrade and therefore can accumulate in river, ponds…so it’s better to use it as an exceptional emergency measure and not as a main means of control, in small quantity and not directly on the soil where the pellets can get easily dissolved and washed away by the rain or eaten by non-target critters.
Perseverance at picking snails up by hand regularly and a healthy ecosystem full of predators (crab-eating mangoose, wild boars, flat worms, some predatory beetles, yellow pond turtles…eat them.) is the only reasonable way that will keep them at a tolerable level.
Im of a similar belief. I dont like that poison simply because its wet here and it does trickle down into the soil and cause issues with some soil critters. Thebuse of a tray is a good idea. Though reading in the iron phosphate baits i much prefer that. Calling hemkcal storea found it ranging in price a lot. From 800 to 1800 per 500g. But well worth it as its mixed in with attractant and filler.
“If you want to go nuclear on the problem then encircle your land with a concrete ditch filled with salt water. Buy a shed load of ducks and fireflys and fill your land. Organize daily treasure hunts after it rains ala the Triffid hunters. Within a few years you might have the problem under control”
Yes actually that is the way to do it. I bought land here a while ago on the west and did exactly this with 2 foot deep ditches around my greenhouses. Salt isnt needed, water is enough as these snails wont cross it. This is THE sollution if you own land. Most farmers here are not in that position. But its a truly effective way if your land is fairly flat! Then just spend time killing over a few years.
Though salt can kill slugs and snails, it dissolves in water easily and thus rain and even dew causes it to leech into the soil and causes big problems over time for both the soil fauna and the plant crops. Which is why most studies on crop production include at least a mention of salinity tollerance.
according to the experiment results of Professor Chang of Chiayi University, soak Camellia oleifera Abel. meal (the dregs from oil manufacture) and use the water to spray on plants is very effective. 1KG camellia seeds meal with 4L hot water, drain it after half an hour then add 4 more liters of water.
) and they are friggen impossible to manage. Back home in Canada i used to breed these things for pets and for monitor lizard food. i sold 1cm babies for $5 CDN each, about $125nt. oh the irony of my fate plant propagating here…