Damn this is a really good topic. This situation, just confirms more and more to me, that should I get married one day, pre-marriage counseling is a must.
That gives me an idea. I think it would be helpful to have a serious area of forumosa â something like the parenting section â in which a respository of information like this could be established to provide those approaching marriage to a local with knowledge of the various traditions/expectations/common points of contention they might be likely to encounter.
It could also work for locals, too. They could find out about things like the idiocy of getting hitched to an Irishman, that kind of thing.
[quote=âsandmanâ]I think it would be helpful to have a serious area of forumosa â something like the parenting section â in which a respository of information like this could be established to provide those approaching marriage to a local with knowledge of the various traditions/expectations/common points of contention they might be likely to encounter.
It could also work for locals, too. [/quote]
Youâre right. I donât think my wife has considered how much hockey sheâs going to be subjected to when we live back in Canada some day.
That gives me an idea. I think it would be helpful to have a serious area of forumosa â something like the parenting section â in which a respository of information like this could be established to provide those approaching marriage to a local with knowledge of the various traditions/expectations/common points of contention they might be likely to encounter.
It could also work for locals, too. They could find out about things like the idiocy of getting hitched to an Irishman, that kind of thing.[/quote]
Since I was your muse for that lovely idea, can this single woman be a mod over it? I could just flame away comments about how explaining how to close the car door properly isnât necessary and cause for flame baiting.
My wife and I have separate bank accounts. We have separate businesses. The only kinda strange thing is that our house is in my wifeâs name even though I paid 2/3s and my mother-in-law paid 1/3. We share living expenses according to how much each of us has available, though weâre not extreme to the point of the couple mentioned previously which splits the cost of dinners out and donât count out every dollar each person pays for things. My wife has a pretty independent personality for the most part so this has worked out well for each of us.
In America, based on advice from a relationship class I took in college for general degree requirement credits, my wife (Taiwanese) and I (American) set up three accounts. We each had our own personal account and one joint account.
Everything needed to pay bills and expenses would go into the joint account. This was the main checking account and we used it to send out rent payments and to make payments to other budgeted expenses.
After subtracting the money that went into the joint account for budgeted expenses and subtracting money that went into various budgeted investments and savings (joint investment funds, emergency savings, etc.), we each put an amount of money into our personal accounts.
The money in our personal accounts was for us to spend on anything we wanted. We had no say what the other person did with that money. The purpose was to avoid the number one cause of arguments in families: money. If blew several hundred bucks on a Treo smartphone, I didnât want to hear about it. Similarly, if she wanted to buy more over-priced cosmetics that served purposes mysterious to me, fine, go ahead, as long as you have the money in your account, you donât have to convince me that you need it.
A close friend of mine, who is Japanese-American (his wife is Japanese), didnât agree. He felt that a married couple jointly-owned everything and should not need to separate accounts like this. Iâve talked to others, from a variety of cultural backgrounds, who feel similarly. They tend to be the same folks that find premarital agreements abhorrent. I donât share this world view, but I did stop the multiple and separate account scheme.
Eventually, I found that our finances were becoming too complicated given our income. Too many bank accounts, money market accounts, etc. Eventually, we merged many of our accounts. Having separate accounts didnât stop all arguments about money. Youâll still have themâŠafter all, how much to save? What are you saving for? Are daily international calls to your mother a budgetable expense for the joint account or something that should come out of your account? Do you buy a used or a new car, what model? Etc.
We didnât have more arguments after merging the accounts. Just less paperwork.
When we moved to Taiwan, my wife came several months before I did as I was finishing up a project in New York. She opened up a bank account and transferred money to it. When I came to Taiwan, we looked into making it a joint account, which is a very simple process in the United States. But in Taiwan, they donât seem to have such a thing. And this was the local branch of HSBC telling us this, not some small, local bank.
In practice, however, it doesnât matter, I still have an ATM card for the account. I just donât have any legal rights to the money if my wife were to change the PIN number and on-line password. Currently, I am not working full time, but I do some substitute work for friends and acquaintances. Some busibans require you have a bank account to get paid. I just have them deposit the money into my wifeâs account. I must say that I actually like letting my wife manage that account. Sheâs better than me at managing the payments and monitoring accounts for deposits and stuff. I really donât enjoy reconciling accounts. 
Regarding the comment above about sending money to relatives as a type of extortion often inflicted on foreign spouses. That is very misleading. It is very common for Taiwanese to send money to their parents (and, really, not only Taiwanese). Also, it is too easy to say that you should discuss this before you marry. I think everyone should have a prenup before they marry, but even with a prenup drafted by the most brilliant of matrimonial attorneys, you are not going to be able to cover every situation that will come up in a marriage, especially a multicultural marriage.
Maybe your wife an you should try the multiple account approach. It may work for you better than I, especially in the beginning while your wife has trust issues. She should realize that making you totally vulnerable so that she feels more secure is unfair. There are numerous financial arrangements you can come to that will protect both of your interests so you can stop worrying about money and focus on building trust in your relationship. An accountant should be able to help you with this.
As for money demanded by her parents, well, you need to come to an agreement with your wife on this. I donât have a problem given money to my in-laws because they have helped my wife and I out on many occasions. What comes around goes around. Also, my mother-in-law is very good with money. Iâve also had to put up with more than money issues, as weâve had in-laws live with us for extended periods (but also vice versa), and all the other challenges that come-up when you join with another family.
I have, however, turned down requests from people on my side of the family when I felt theyâve been living irresponsibly and that my giving them money would only empower them to continue doing so for a longer period of time. If you feel that is the case, you might have to make a difficult decision that your wife is not emotionally ready to make.
If it is just a matter of saving for your future, then you may have a cultural difference to deal with. Some families, especially in Taiwan, see sharing the wealth and supporting others in the family as the most important investment you can make towards your futures and, to some degree, they may have a point. This is the case in many cultures, not just Taiwan. Whoâs going to support your family if tragedy strikes? I donât envy the position you are in.
Personally, I have no problem being perceived as an asshole when I need to say ânoâ to protect my and my familyâs interests. But when Iâm able, I feel I should help out when I can, when it isnât encouraging destructive behavior. I can be card to draw the line in both instances. I feel fortunate that I havenât missed the mark by too much in the ten years Iâve been married and I wish you the best of luck with your aim.
[quote=âTempo Gainâ]no such thing as a joint bank account in taiwan. someone please correct me if i am wrong.[/quote]s.
Thatâs my understanding. It is one of those things that I didnât believe at first as it is common for folks to tell me âthatâs not done (or doesnât exist) in Taiwanâ only for me to be stubborn and prove them wrong. But in this case is seems to be true. Iâm not sure that âthere is no such thingâ but it surely is difficult, uncommon, and not worth the hassle if it is even possible.
No big deal, your spouse can still give you an ATM card to his/her bank account or vice versa.
Or you just get two accounts. Not a big deal.
[quote=âChouDoufuâ]
Regarding the comment above about sending money to relatives as a type of extortion often inflicted on foreign spouses. That is very misleading. It is very common for Taiwanese to send money to their parents (and, really, not only Taiwanese). Also, it is too easy to say that you should discuss this before you marry. I think everyone should have a prenup before they marry, but even with a prenup drafted by the most brilliant of matrimonial attorneys, you are not going to be able to cover every situation that will come up in a marriage, especially a multicultural marriage.[/quote]
Great story ChouDoufu. Sure itâs easy to say that you should discuss this, but it should be discussed. Some people arenât level headed or wise/aware that these are important issues one would have to face, and the reality surrounding them. Discussing it doesnât mean that future arguments wonât happen, it just may mean the arguments are over something of value and not as frequent.
I havenât read all of this thread so donât know if anybody said this or not but - âWhadya freaking nuts?â Nobody but me has no money in the bank.
Reading topics like this makes me happy that I donât have an SO to steal my money and I donât have any money for her to steal in the first place.
Thereâs always poison if it really gets bad.
CSI has taught me many things.
When it comes to Taiwanese culture and managing money, my experience is that there are many ways of doing it, and that the old âthe wife manages the money thing 100%â is neither old, nor as normal as you might think.
My ex wife really wanted to manage the money, however I told her to get a job, in case she wanted money to manage.
The local couples I know either manage jointly, the wife manages it, or the husband manages it, there are many ways of doing it.
Also, traditionally, the wife does not give money to her parents after sheâs married. Women marry out (ć«ćșć»), and traditionally they are only supposed to go back to their biological parents a couple of times per year - the third day of the first lunar month every year is the traditional day for that, actually.
Since the bonds between the wife and her biological parents are partially severed, I have a hard time seeing any fixed monthly payment from daughter to biological parent. The only one would be from the son to father/mother, with the implicit understanding that the son would inherit.
So, how come that your wife suddenly wants you to pay NT$10k to her mother every month? Simple, face. If sheâs able to support her mother - either in full or partly, sheâs gaining face and standing in the family. âSee mother, how well I have marriedâ. (Especially when the daughter is marrying a big-nose) I was unwittingly contributing to my former inlaws to the tune of 5-10% of my income, money I personally think would have been better spent on our kids.
My advice to the OP would be to keep control of the money and make sure that any payments to the inlaws is on a very occational basis only. If itâs hard to get thru, then perhaps mention that you need to support your parent to the tune of say US$1000 every month, and remit those money to your own account overses or in another bank.
Having the wife control the money is the traditional way in Taiwan, or so Iâve heard. It is considered more normal for men to cheat here than it would be back home - all those âsecond wivesâ while still married to the first. Adults send money to their parents here, more so than back home. But - your wife left her family when she married you, so traditionally she wouldnât be supporting her parents, unless there were no sons.
However, you donât have to live this way just because your wife wants to. Explain about your culture to her. I especially wouldnât send money to the parents, unless it was their only income. Their son will inherit when they die, and your wife wonât get anything - again, traditionally in Taiwan.
IMO I donât see much wrong in giving mom and dad some extra bucks every month. Given the sacrifices they made while raising their children. The cost of living has risen everywhere so giving them a little extra income might elevate mental stresses they have.
In fact, my own ideal world, it would be good because perhaps mom and dad could give back when you need it. Hence a flow of giving and sharing. But then thereâs reality to be contended with.
Actually, there are no fixed traditions on that one. It can vary from family to family. I once read a piece on Taiwanese men marrying lasses from Shanghai, and they warned the Taiwan lads that the Shanghai lasses would try to do that - unlike in Taiwan.
The wife controlling the money thing is recent and it has not gathered widespread acceptance.
Giving money to the wifeâs family - not many Taiwanese men would even consider that. If they wife did it and hubby found out, the marital peaec would be shattered for some time to come.
I think any professional money manager would give you this advise. Wife has her account and husband has his account. If wife works and husband works they should calculate their monthly needs (not wants) and each deposit a proportionate share of their respective incomes to the account wherein they both have access. You can and should be open about the balances but, like business partnerships, marriages ALWAYS end at some point. Counseling people going into a marriage about the finances is much like counseling those going into a partnership business. Donât question how it will work. Question how it will end because it absolutely will.
I say it depends on how well are you off and how well are your parents off. If you canât afford it or they live on a good pension for example then surely there is no need to pay them, in particular not regularly (like every month).
Since the joint account doesnât seem to be an option here in backwater-country perhaps two accounts would be good, with a standing order to transfer an amount x every month that the wife can access for the shared expenses. If she manages well she can take the balance to buy herself something nice (or save/invest it âŠ), in addition to whatâs necessary (food, clothes etc.).
You can have a bank account with both husbandâs and wifeâs names (joint account). My wife and I have one at CCB.
There is, unfortunately, good reason why many Taiwanese women want to control the finances. I canât tell you how many Taiwanese women I know who have worked with their husbands for years or have been house wives raising the children and keeping the home, and then suddenly Husband starts playing with some young girl on the side. After Wife can no longer tolerate the humiliation, and the couple get a divorce, Husband refuses to give any money to Wife and even refuses to give any money for child support. It happens all too frequently here.
I mean really, Iâve seen probably several hundred such cases here. Mind boggling.
Amen Amen Amen. :bravo: Think of about 20 to 30 years back where in America, men made a lot of financial decisions in the house and the women knew nothing about it and ended up in dire straits. Now fast forward to the current state of marriage and how people handle their own money before they get into a marriage. College debt, personal debt, and other stuff. And if one of the partners canât pay up on their end for their messes, then in some cases the spouse is liable.
Bottom line is, have a serious talk about money, and all state of affairs before saying âIdoâ the rosy glow of lust wears off fast, but the reality of life stays aroundâŠ
I say it depends on how well are you off and how well are your parents off. If you canât afford it or they live on a good pension for example then surely there is no need to pay them, in particular not regularly (like every month).[/quote]
Good point, but I wasnât meaning having to give them rent money or anything. I donât see anything wrong with giving mom and dad perhaps any amount that you would be comfortable with. If they are responsible, then perhaps they would just add it to a trust fund for their grand kids or a saving account where if one should need it they could borrow without it being a strain on the parents. I just see it as another form of a prosperity flow.