What does national mean? Im confused a bit too. If you are a citizen, by proxy you are a national. If you arent a citizen arent you by proxy not a national? I get the citezenship and id are slightly different but dont you need to be a citizen to get an ID?
Or is it a family and or racial thing?
There are taiwanese nationals who don’t have a citizenship(household registration).
ROC laws do not use the word citizen (公民). They use the word national (國民).
Citizenship rights are attached to household registration in Taiwan. All the Chinese people in the world are Chinese nationals.
thanks for explaning.
So is this why voting is such a PITA always going back to your family home…because you cannot be without household registration? It can be hard to move it if you dont own and landlord says no. In this case i assume you are not allowed to go without and remove it from your family home?
Genuinely curious as i didnt realize this little tid bit.
Is this wording of national with household registration how taiwan can get away with the dual citizenship double standard and lack of reciprocy? As most countries dont use this system there is an easy way out as far as not needing to allow foreigners citizenship when taiwanese are allowed in their country…cause we dont have citizenship.
Is that right?
I think it may be more related to the relation between PRC and ROC. It is really confusing,
https://udn.com/news/story/6656/3401965
至被撤銷歸化許可者，內政部說，於回復國籍前，仍可在台居留，居留期間仍可工作及參加健保，對其生活不致造成影響，且嗣後符合國籍法歸化各項要件，亦可再申請歸化國籍。
Do you have a source for that? That number seems way higher than I would expect.
This is exactly why I was a national of Taiwan and I gave it up, what a joke of a system. Because even a national is not automatically entitled to a national ID number… (But you are entitled to a useless overseas Chinese passport bizarrely).
That crappy passport is missing what is called 'automatic right of return ’ (because you are not a citizen of ROC) so most countries won’t let you in with the bloody thing !
And you are also not permitted to hold foreign citizenship and must show proof you relinquished it .
They do not apply that rule to Taiwan born or people who can re-establish ROC household . Racist system basically. One rule for honky and friends another rule for ‘Chinese’.
It’s related to ethnic Chinese who can prove their ancestors were born in the ROC at some point in the past.
If you can do that you are seen as a long lost (ROCer) .
It’s basically racist stuff but claiming it’s because of Chinese politics.
The law and systems is convoluted even immigration officials are often confused.
The frustration is real. What can be done?
Or, more precisely, what normally causes change in a country that litetally survives off of international support towards your good standing?
Knee jerk slash rectification.
Maybe us long term expats and professionals should get together and write some nine emotional, non bias, factual papers based on experience and spread it throughout the international more sophisticated scene/media (meaning not facebook and backpacker related anything). Slightly embarrasing taiwans ways of literal retardation while saving face in an open and international arena is what coyld spark useful change much of whatvwe have slowly seen over the past few years. Making it econony based, not moral based, will open ears. At least thats how i see a spark in change. And it should happen now. If the next election goes to these mr korea/formosa group type assholes, forget it. As bad as DPP amd Tsai might be, the other alternative clearly wont work at all with this kind of proposal.
Who wants to make it happen?
Forward Taiwan have done some work towards it.
Legislature keeps blocking it over the years.
Now they give it to 'special foreigners ’ only.
if your parent is a roc national, you don’t need to be a ethnic Chinese.
Lol…How many of them out there over the last hundred years.
It’s funny because it’s self perpetuating.
It’s difficult to become an ROC national (and most difficult to be a CITIZEN by far… )without your ancestors (parents easiest) being an ROC national.
Citizenship is the most difficult because of the extra steps required for honky and friends that’s not required for many ethnic Chinese. Without citizenship I cannot so easily live and work in Taiwan and my kids , although born here, wouldn’t be entitled to ROC citizenship. That’s the key .
Now we are talking about a country (ROC) that practically abandoned a whole army and it’s descendants in Thailand and Laos.
I was watching that as well. Useful and necessary. But it needs to bemulti pronged. We cant, as foreigners, push much weight legally here. But we sure as shit can cause some attention at higher levels abroad which would, by proxy, trigger a government response here.
Fighting human rights is a grassroots, or ground up fight. A much needed and worthy one.
Once established the real way to get thi gs done is a top down pressure.
In this case, international benefit and acceptance into the club. Which is where taiwan is so deaperate it will likely listen if its from rich, corporate type countries.
Related article, though a bit old and in Chinese.
I do hope they will remove the requirement for people to give up their original citizenship when naturalising.
They have pretty much allowed current ROC citizens to take up other citizenships without losing their ROC nationality already, I personally hope they do extend the same to naturalised citizens.
Article 19 is even worse because of that requirement as they turn people stateless. They got their punishment, why punish them further.
Couldn’t we start a go fund me account with the most trusted member of this forum and take the government to court for institutinilzed racism ? It would at least get it in the papers. Surely it’s about time we started doing something about this at least ?
There are some good human rights lawyers on the island , expensive but good.
I think it is more realistic to collaborate with already existing groups working on that kind of issues than trying to start a new group here.
Do you know which groups are working on it, what happened to Brian seems like blatant racism. And a lot of wasted time on his part, I’d chip in a little if he took them to court, or someone like him. 100 of us chipping in could get a human rights lawyer on the case.