Always wanted to ask - Why short hair/man-ish if lesb?

Life LGBTQ+ Forum
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Hi,

Straight guy here, wanting to know an answer to a simple question that some friends and I are theorizing about:

If you like girls, and want to be attractive to another girl, how come most people in TW seem to cut hair short, hide boobs, and look like a guy?

I mean hey, I like girls too, but I think: “Girls that like men like men that look like men”. So that thought is process switched to lesbian brings out this pondering paradox:

“As a straight man, If I see a girl that looks like a guy, with boobs hidden like a man’s chest, I’m pretty sure that’d make me attracted to guys: not girls. O__o so what’s the thought process if you are trying to attract a lesbian? Does the average lesbian like women that look like men, or simply like the look of men, just, without a penis :P”

Thanks for your enlightenment~ very curious about response out of pure curiosity.

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Stating the obvious: some girls like girls that look like men.

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Funny thing I saw today, I tho it was twins holding hands, adult twins but on a second look it was a lesb couple with identical hair style, cute tho.

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How do you know they weren’t just BFFs? This is Taiwan.

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I’m not sure, they just looked like a couple.

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SOME, but every lesb i’ve ever met here has short hair man look. That would be saying that some straight guys like man-look girls, but the percentage would be very low realistically.

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When I see couples who appear to be lesbian, one partner often looks like an average Taiwanese female, hair and otherwise.

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Classic case of observation bias.

There must be a lot of lesbian couples where it’s 2 feminine girls, but you don’t notice them because 2 close girls don’t stand out; they could equally just be friends or sisters. Tomboy - femme couples are obvious and noticeable, so in your eyes all lesbian couples are like that.

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Why am I getting a “Yahoo answers” kind of vibe from this thread? :ponder:

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Old lesbian

Man who looks like old lesbian.

Good question?

Or was that the other way around completely.

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[quote=“dylanh724”]Hi,

Straight guy here, wanting to know an answer to a simple question that some friends and I are theorizing about:

If you like girls, and want to be attractive to another girl, how come most people in TW seem to cut hair short, hide boobs, and look like a guy?

I mean hey, I like girls too, but I think: “Girls that like men like men that look like men”. So that thought is process switched to lesbian brings out this pondering paradox:

“As a straight man, If I see a girl that looks like a guy, with boobs hidden like a man’s chest, I’m pretty sure that’d make me attracted to guys: not girls. O__o so what’s the thought process if you are trying to attract a lesbian? Does the average lesbian like women that look like men, or simply like the look of men, just, without a penis :P”

Thanks for your enlightenment~ very curious about response out of pure curiosity.[/quote]

A shot in the dark, but maybe short-haired “butch” (as they’re unaffectionately referred to) lesbians just identify more with their masculine side? Similar to how some gay men are referred to as “flamboyant” since they’re comfortable exhibiting traits that society defines as feminine. In both situations, I don’t think they’re making a conscious effort to attract someone per se, but just being themselves. Thankfully society is quite tolerant these days so they can do just that.

Maybe another way to think of it is like this: does a straight guy wear a baseball cap and/or a sports jersey to attract girls? Or does he choose that style because it reflects his internal identity which in turn represents the image he’s trying to project to the world? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. People all along the sexual spectrum seem to be attracted to others that are comfortable and confident with themselves.

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[quote=“aphasiac”]Classic case of observation bias.

There must be a lot of lesbian couples where it’s 2 feminine girls, but you don’t notice them because 2 close girls don’t stand out; they could equally just be friends or sisters. Tomboy - femme couples are obvious and noticeable, so in your eyes all lesbian couples are like that.[/quote]
mind = blown

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[quote=“rocky raccoon”][quote=“dylanh724”]Hi,

Straight guy here, wanting to know an answer to a simple question that some friends and I are theorizing about:

If you like girls, and want to be attractive to another girl, how come most people in TW seem to cut hair short, hide boobs, and look like a guy?

I mean hey, I like girls too, but I think: “Girls that like men like men that look like men”. So that thought is process switched to lesbian brings out this pondering paradox:

“As a straight man, If I see a girl that looks like a guy, with boobs hidden like a man’s chest, I’m pretty sure that’d make me attracted to guys: not girls. O__o so what’s the thought process if you are trying to attract a lesbian? Does the average lesbian like women that look like men, or simply like the look of men, just, without a penis :P”

Thanks for your enlightenment~ very curious about response out of pure curiosity.[/quote]

A shot in the dark, but maybe short-haired “butch” (as they’re unaffectionately referred to) lesbians just identify more with their masculine side? Similar to how some gay men are referred to as “flamboyant” since they’re comfortable exhibiting traits that society defines as feminine. In both situations, I don’t think they’re making a conscious effort to attract someone per se, but just being themselves. Thankfully society is quite tolerant these days so they can do just that.

Maybe another way to think of it is like this: does a straight guy wear a baseball cap and/or a sports jersey to attract girls? Or does he choose that style because it reflects his internal identity which in turn represents the image he’s trying to project to the world? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. People all along the sexual spectrum seem to be attracted to others that are comfortable and confident with themselves.[/quote]

Hmm, right I get the concept – but if you look at a gay flamboyant man, he doesn’t usually have long flowing hair, makeup, and wear a dress (the average flamboyant gay man) – it’s more like, his actions seem to be more feminine. Then gay flamboyant men are usually more stylish, or may have a feminine “vibe” to it, but overall doesn’t try to look like a girl. Thus, still having the look of a man since gay men are attracted to … men. Usually.

So when thinking this way, the opposite with women comes back to my original Q

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People love people, is beautiful.

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To be honest i do find it strange and illogical too. “I like girls, so I’m going to date a girl who looks and acts exactly like a boy”. If it’s just a “look” then why the breast binding?

Also are the femms in these butch - femm relationships even all proper lesbians? My Taiwanese significant other says many are just experimenting, and it sort of makes sense; there’s very little different physically between a tomboy lesbian and the average Taiwanese young guy. Throw in no pressure of marriage and more similar interests and maturity level, and you can see why some straight girls might “give it a go”.

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getyourqueeron.com/celeb-int … tomboy-pao

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^above link is dead.

Here is a post I made over 4 years ago touching on the subject.

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtop … e#p1118733

[quote]Are these ‘tomboys’ actually lesbians?
Or are they just conforming like many do and calling themselves that?

Are the ones who go with them real lesbians too?

When comparing them to the transgender or transsexual male to female, things are a little different.
The ladyboys of Thailand for example are seen by many as a third sex (which is how I see them).
I don’t class anyone who takes a fancy to a ladyboy as ‘gay’, but a ‘P’ (or a ‘dee’ as they are called in Thailand) is classed as a lesbian for taking a fancy to a a person whose only feminine part (from their looks) is the genitalia.
I haven’t got a clue about bedroom gymnastics between the T and P.
Are roles ‘usually’ like that of a hetro couple?

Homosexuality seems to be too wide a description. Almost anyone who doesn’t fit the ‘hetro’ criteria must be gay in many peoples eyes.

And further down I wrote:
I stumbled upon a lesbian forum page based in Thailand a few weeks ago and there were some western women complaining about the Asian roles in ‘lesbian’ relationships - butch and femme and that the femme’s in general are scared to touch pussy.
[/quote]

I think sexuality is much more complicated than the Judeo-Christian black and white - gay or straight or even Bi.
For me, what feels natural should be embraced (unless it is harmful to others) and labels ignored. Unfortunately, labels aren’t ignored and most people like to compartmentalize.

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glbtq.com/social-sciences/bu … e_ssh.html

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There’s a very strong butch/femme culture among lesbians in Taiwan.

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What Cake said.

Seems the OP has a very dichotomous way of looking at sexuality. There are gradations of masculine and feminine, male and female (gender-wise) and people are attracted to different points on the spectrum. I’m a hetero female, and find myself attracted to extremely masculine looking men (boyfriend is six foot five, very broad) yet I look for more “feminine” personality characteristics- absolutely can’t stand frat boy types. I look pretty feminine, but honestly identify with some very “masculine” characteristics (competitive, opinionated, loud). I think most people don’t fit into our molds of feminine and masculine, but contort or hide parts of themselves to be at peace with society. What a shame. It takes a lot of energy to not be yourself, energy you could be using to do something cool.

Sexuality, gender and attraction isn’t dichotomous, it’s a beautiful mixed salad :wink:

And it could be that the mates of these butch women are attracted to the looks of men but prefer vaginas. Who knows.