America Leads the Free World in a New Direction

Well, Hitler is alive and living with Elvis. Michael Jackson’s frozen head in their mantle.

One can believe the stories we are told in school or delve into scholars like Anthony Sutton who found the receipts that the Commies were backed by Wall Street as well as the Natsees.
The clap trap we were fed for all the recent wars shows previous ones were never organic.

Is part of Trump’s ear on the mantle too?

Wasn’t his last respected work done in 1973? So nearly 60 years of gotcha ?

Which one? The one that got shot or the bionic one?

So what.
I am currently reading this which is a phenomenal book. Over 600 pages:
Two World Wars and Hitler.

Why did you skip the other 120 pages?

And honestly, I wouldn’t mind revisionist history if it weren’t so predictably biased in the favor of the authors favorite conspiracy.

Ignoring intent and counter factual evidence isn’t a great look. :eyes:
That’s one reason I like reading Chomsky, but also don’t—

Stick to Hollywood’s version of History.

Why would I do that? You post presumably to engage with others. Why be silly? I don’t need a sanitized version but I also don’t need a bullshit version from yet another smartest man alive. :laughing:

It’s far easier to look back and draw conclusions that aren’t supported by evidence than it is to write history with an understanding that one doesn’t know it all.

Are you bothered that I simply didn’t walk away leaving you with a sense of superiority?

A wise man once said: Hindsight makes pattern-matching almost irresistible. Once you know how the story ended, it’s easy to arrange earlier events into a clean causal chain that “must” have led there, even when the contemporary evidence is thinner or more ambiguous than the retrospective narrative claims.

Let’s celebrate the very thing that led to the de-industrialization of the old industrial centers! Anti-labor sentiment and corporate greed! Hurrah!

I was going to say corporate capitalism, but the corporate state is a pretty big thing in fascism. Either way, I’m not crying over a step away from “free market economics”, but it is a shame this is the step that is taken instead of like, anything that benefits the people.

These are (mostly) not the gotchas that you think they are, in order:

Wernher Von Braun - was never head of NASA, though he was certainly evil personified and political shenanigans took place to get him admitted to the country and put in charge of Marshall Space Flight Center to work on the missile program, but it was not a quid pro quo so much as because the US government was terrified of American missile tech falling behind the Germans and he was the only scientist in the world that had successfully built a working ballistic missile. Did that make the US the baddies? Yeah, kinda, but it was widely known and an awkward political football for a long time.

Walter Hallstein - was never a willing member of any Nazi activity and after he was drafted immediately got himself captured. His career after was simply that - a career after escaping hell.

Adolf Heusinger - arguably questionable, but also the least-bad option at the time for the brief period that he served.

Kurt Waldheim - actually a problem, and the only one where it looks like there was a real attempt to cover up his many mis-deeds, and present fig-leaves of propriety, I’ll give you that one. :bowing:

That’s an awfully simplistic view.

I thought it was well said. Based on the unspeakably brutal slave labor regime at the core of the Nazi rocket program.

He was certainly complicit. For me, it’s tough to say someone is evil for being complicit in an evil authoritarian regime without being a leader in it. Sure, we’d all like to think we’d be awesome paragons of virtue that uphold high standards when faced with something like that and judge others who don’t meet those standards as evil, but life is more complicated than that.

Numerous people were complicit in the Holocaust. He was well, well beyond that. If evil has any meaning he met the standard.

No one can be a “paragon of virtue” I guess. You couldn’t be an SS officer or a slave labor program director without signing on to “something like that”, but it’s not like you were forced to. A lot of people offed themselves over crimes they committed in the Holocaust. Von Braun got off very easy.

Yea, if you were a super smart technical guy in an area related to the war effort and the Nazis wanted you to do something, I’m pretty sure it would all feel totally voluntary whether you did it or not. :roll_eyes:

Now that is simplistic.

It’s certainly not. It’s a whole lot gray.

I mean, seriously, what do you think would happen if he said no thanks, not interested in working for you guys? They would’ve been like okly-dokly?

The forced laborers in ammunition factories during world war II, made damaged ammunition to hurt the Nazi’s.

As a highly skilled engineer and later decision maker, he (Wernher Von Braun) could have done more to not come up with the smartest ideas for the ballistic missile programs. Thus delaying or stopping the progress of V2