I’m always amazed by the mindsets on this forum. America can do no wrong or it can do no right. Giving aid is a good thing. Could America give more? Sure they could but so could every other damn country in the world. The mere fact that any country is willing to donate aid is something to be grateful for, not something to be derided because it’s not enough. I believe there are some legitimate things that can be criticized about America but I’m not sure that aid is one of them.
I am pretty amazed too. It takes some real screwballs to turn a tragedy such as this into an anti-US tirade and a pissing match as to who gives the most aid.
I beg to differ. It is not a pissing match about who gives the most aid but an effort to point out that despite a very public criticism, the US gives the most aid both in terms of amount and per capita. This thread is to counter the rampant anti-Americanism that often goes unchecked by supplying the facts. America gives the most and is the most generous. Yet, rather than being recognized for this, it is criticized as being stingy. This thread is not to slam other countries nor to sing America’s praises per se but to defend it against unwarranted, unfounded, unethical criticism. That was and still is my intent. If that is not the perception that others have, then I apologize and beg them to look at this thread from the point of view that I have described.
just a quick number, as I do not like this EU-is-giving-nothing blabla.
Germany pays 20 Million Euro as immediate help for the Asia flood, USA 25.7 Million Euro, if you change the 35 Million US $ to Euro.
If you comare our countries we do not have to hide I think.
:Europe: :raspberry:
… okay, ich liebe euch alle: :America: 
and whatever
Fred, you don’t need to defend America, no one is attacking America, the world and northern California liberals are not out to get you. YOU started this discussion, as you do so often, with your “in your face” boast of how great America is.
Forumosa posters could basically react to your post in one of three ways: they could ignore your boasting (probably the wisest option), they could praise you for your wisdom (the most foolish option), or they could disagree. Like a number of other posters, I took the third option, based on the years of widespread public opinion and statistics that showed your boast was false.
For some reason when I disagree with your boasts I am labeled a traitor to my country; everyone else you are willing to speak with civilly, recognizing their right to disagree with your points. Have you every called Hobbes or buthcher boy or spook or the others treasonous, or attacked them with personal insults for disagreeing with you? I haven’t noticed that happening as it does with me.
But the thing is, no one is attacking America. Most of us would probably be content to discuss the crazy shit we did in high school or whether the wang rules if YOU didn’t initiate one conflict after another. If you don’t wish to hear negative views regarding US policy, don’t raise an issue where there are widespread negative views and boast that the US can do no wrong.
In his first public statement since his quiet vacation at his ranch, even Bush realizes that the initial aid of $35 million for the tsunami torn countries is not enough. Reuters, Wed Dec 29, Bush Vows More Aid for Tsunami Victims
Though he doesn’t specifically say that the additional US aid will be to allay the critics, it’s a good thing to push the US and other governments to support catastrophes. It will take too long for private charities to generate a response.
[quote]In October the U.S. Congress approved $13.6 billion in domestic hurricane assistance, most of it for Florida, which was battered by major storms.
Canada has already approved about $33 million in Asian aid and the European Union was set to release up to 30 million euros ($40 million). [/quote]
Nice try MT but no cigar.
If you had “views” then I could disagree with you but what are your views? Do you think that America should be giving more and if so how much more and in what ways and to whom?
OR if you do not have views but take umbrage with my “boasts” about America, then you could either refrain OR you could say Fred Smith I find your pot-banging patriotism offensive, BUT what do you do? You attack America and supply statistics to make it look bad for what possible purpose? To balance the discussion? To rein in my exuberant patriotism?
As to the insults, I think that if you look at mine, they have generally consisted of traitorous and groveling and self-abasement. Unlike you, I tend not to use large font, big bright lettering to tell you to go fuck yourself, fuck off or you fucking asshole, now do I?
I still think that you have been programmed to bash America and it shows. When do you ever make a point about anything unless it is to post information that shows America and its leaders in a negative light? Sorry, I am not convinced and, yes, I still do find your posts groveling for approval from others or should I say The Other.
MT wrote:
Actually, you have not proven that my post was false. You have proved that US govt aid is less per capita than that given by Norway.
Yet, I have shown that much US aid is NOT counted for whatever reason in these tallies and that most US aid is privately given not GOVT. Therefore my statement is NOT FALSE.
More on the actual amounts that the US govt gives that are for some reason NOT counted in its total aid amounts. Why not?
For aid, it’s worth considering quality as well as quantity. In several of the underdeveloped countries I’ve been to I’ve seen aid go to the wrong people. It’s not so much about how much is given as to whom it’s given to. To donate $30 million to a corrupt government can easily result in less results than $3 million to an NGO with minimal running costs. Often, aid is a double-pronged effort to benefit a group in need as well as benefit the organization involved, which may or may not take a healthy cut.
As an American, I agree, my country is corrupt. What I suggest is that we stop giving any form of aid of any kind to any country until we fix our corrupt and evil government. Zero. Ziltch. Nadda. No more handouts. No more freebees. I agree, giving food is nothing. Americans are “enablers”. Because we give handouts to millions around the world, we are encouraging them to be lazy. Find your own cure for starvation, aids, war. We have our own problems to fix, right?
Right?
Pres, every government has some degree of corruption since that is the nature of power. However, the US government is an efficient, beautiful machine that does have problems at times but somehow manages to keep an enormous population united and living (relatively) harmoniously. By complaining about the government I think most Americans are actually praising its structure since it is designed to address grievances. Most complaints have been about US policies, not its society or structure of government. US aid is crucial for the world, and we should be very grateful to Bush for his promise of $350 million to the victims. He has certainly won some of my respect. My earlier comment was that any aid’s efficiency would be maximized by ensuring it goes to the right people, a point that has been brought up continuously on CNN. It is a problem domestically and internationally; many organizations and probably most government-linked organizations are not transparent about the way they spend money we would hope would go directly to victims.
It took quite a long time for president Bushshit to opine on the tsunami disaster and then that arrogant shit, smarting from accusations of being stingy had the nerve to grab the mike and present himself as the leader of all aid efforts. The US was going to build an “international coalition” (does this moronic piece of piss know any other phrase that could at least give the veneer of statesmanship?) to lead the aid effort.
He’ll coin the phrase “The War On Waves” next!
…International coalition…piss off. Bush doesn’t even know where half these places are. All American government aid in this instance is a cynical, manipulative political exercise. Bush doesm’t care how many brown people die just as long as his trailer park dimwit constituency doesn’t get blown away in a twister because they didn’t have the gumption to secure their caravan to the ground.
I hope that one day Bush drowns in his paddling pool.
America. Generous? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
BroonAid
And even if someone showed him the places on the map, he wouldn’t be able to pronounce them correctly.
Did you hear the terrorism “experts” on CNN saying that the US shouldn’t miss this opportunity to “win hearts and minds” in Banda Aceh? That they should quickly go in and deliver aid before the Al–Quaida-linked “insurgents” start recruiting from the dispossessed.
sbmoor wrote:
I agree completely! Government aid is often nothing more than “Poor people in rich countries being taxed to give to rich people in poor countries.” Sbmoor! I cannot believe how much in agreement we are on this. Interesting new condition. I hope it continues. Very welcome comments.
Wookie and Broon Ale:
Nasty cynicism. The fact remains that the US was going to give generously no matter what. The full damage was not known in the first day and the knowledge about how much devastation and number of deaths were created prompted an increase, not just from the US, but from all other donor countries as well.
This time, I have to say it is very refreshing to see how much good is being done by so many in Europe, Canada, America and elsewhere. Even the UN appears to be doing an exemplary job and this is precisely the kind of role the UN is best suited to play NOT a political one.
I heard last night on CNN that the US government plans to donate 350 million dollars…And that won’t be including private donations.
Whatever we think of Bush and some of our rather misguided foreign policies, the US will remain at the forefront of the relief effort simply becuase we can get the job done. We also have the infrastructure in place to get the aid where it needs to go. By this time tomorrow, US helicopters will be flying sorties up and down the Sumatran west coast, unaffected by the chronic fuel shortages that have brought relief to a standstill in Medan.
A Vietman era B-52 bomber base has be reopened north of Phuket. A carrier task force should be in place tomorrow. These two events will speed up the delivery of aid tenfold or more.
No other nation has anything remotely close to the delivery/disaster relief capabilities of the US.
I can’t believe the naysayers here. In a disaster of this proportion, why not let the nation that can handle it best lead the way?
Nonetheless, it is a shame that Bush blew a terrific opportunity to show the muslim world that he’s got nothing against muslims, that he’s a caring and compassionate guy and he wants to help them. If he had made an appropriate announcement and offer immediately, he could have conveyed that message and helped mend the distrust and hostilities that he’s built up. Instead, he waited a few days and appeared to offer assistance, and increase it, only as a result of outside pressure, so while appreciated, the aid appears to be more out of grudging moral obligation than sincere goodwill and compassion.
DAmn it MT:
Just for once, let it f*ing go. The US has helped the most. We did not know how serious the damage was until a couple of days afterwards. Everyone is doing the same thing that we are, adding more money to the pot, because we know the full extent. Everyone is behaving with the utmost generosity and concern and you cheapen the whole thing by bringing in these nasty baseless highly political allegations and they simply are not true. Grow the F up.
Three of my friends just came back from Phuket and they were there in the middle of all of that and no one, not even they knew how widespread and devastating this was going to be. STop reading the leftwing press for just one minute and realize that no one, not even the people there knew that this would involve 150,000 deaths. Now, that we know, all Americans are working together with everyone else, including the French, British, Australians, Indonesians, Thais whatever and this is going well. So please in the name of God just for once just shut the f*** up and be glad that the world is showing that we really can be civilized. Even the UN is proving to be an exemplary force here so please it is New Years. Just shut up and donate some money.
Sorry, I won’t budge. I believe America is behaving as an “enabler”. So, to do everyone a favor, America should immediately cut funding of any kind to foreign countries. Come on, you can do it! Have some faith in yourselves and take the Whitehouse off of your speed dial.
Maybe the reason why Bush has such a hard time pronouncing names of countries and their leaders is that so many of them ask for free hand outs/aid/assistance that its easy to forget who is who and what is where.
Pres Da bien:
Yes, I agree that much aid is wasted and encourages dependency and this is bad and it is much better to do what America usually does which is go in and solve the problem rather than talk about it and fund bureaucracies to talk about it BUT this is a different situation. This is a major disaster that is no one’s fault and where the victims are innocent. In this case, I am surprised but proud that all nations even the UN realize this and when the chips are really down are doing what needs to be done and that is help the victims. This is being done and everyone is behaving very well. Let’s keep sight of that and realize that we have all the rest of the year to fight about other things but now is NOT the time.