American scholar says US should abandon Taiwan

[ABC]

http://www.examiner.com/taiwan-policy-in-national/american-scholar-says-united-states-should-consider-abandoning-taiwan-to-china

Actually the word “abandon” is not what I would use in the article, how about “revise US foreign policy towards Taiwan”. That sounds much better. The US should definitely do that.

[Feiren]

You can’t abandon what isn’t yours.

[Jaboney]

People abandon cats, and everyone knows, you never really own a cat.

[saddletramp]

@Feiren

You can’t abandon what isn’t yours.

Shhhh! Don’t let Hartzel hear you!

[achdizzy1099]

quite true. Except it’s more like ‘America to Taiwan: Get the hint…’.

I believe America is using Taiwan the same way it has all along. Taiwan allows for the US to keep China as an Enemy. China has made it clear that their new policy is to put a smile on their face, wipe the crust out of their eyes and put on a show for the world to absorb, all the while building a military designed to dominate the Pacific. History has seen this facism before, it is hard to curtail and at some point will need to be faced.

Hitler and his Third Reich did the same thing. He promised his military buildup was for defense purposes and many of the neighboring diplomats bought into his message. Then he started taking things that he felt were ‘his’, the rest of the world had to declared war on HIM. Suddenly both sides felt they were ‘dragged’ into something, unwillingly, by the other. Of course this is exactly what Hitler wanted to have happen.

The only difference now is that China and Taiwan, by the time any conflict may arise, will be fighting each other with their lady boy armies as is the concern here.

The USA is at a point were it needs to sit back and see what plays out. Maybe Taiwan reunites with China and everyone is happy, maybe the DPP wins in 2012 and we enter a 4th Taiwan Strait Crisis. From what I can tell, the US Navy is brimming for some real action as the Middle East wars are winding down. Is Taiwan being abandoned or just used as bait? Seems this has been the status quo since 1971.

[Hamletintaiwan]

ABC while you are running your little propaganda here.
Let’s click just one page away from the one you intended to use.

http://www.examiner.com/taiwan-policy-in-national/taiwan-independence-movement-grows-despite-opposition-by-usa-roc-and-china?cid=parsely#parsely

[afterspivak]

Reviving this thread to say that this abandonment idiocy apparently affects emeritus professors in Australia too. Here, for your Friday night consideration, is what Hugh White thinks of us:

Drew Pavlou

Guy

[nz]

I’ve gotten the impression these past few years that Australia is already run by China, more even than the US or Canada.

[TT]

@achdizzy1099

I believe America is using Taiwan the same way it has all along. Taiwan allows for the US to keep China as an Enemy. China has made it clear that their new policy is to put a smile on their face, wipe the crust out of their eyes and put on a show for the world to absorb, all the while building a military designed to dominate the Pacific. History has seen this facism before, it is hard to curtail and at some point will need to be faced

This post was prescient

[TT]

@nz

Australia is already run by China

More than Canada or the US, maybe, but not a vassal or puppet

Point in case, Australia has gotten a taste of Chinese hurt feelings (including from pushback against political interference) impacting their economy in recent years, and they know they’re better off under the current world order than under a Chinese sphere of influence. This has been discussed in the international press a lot for a few years now.

Just recently there was a poll released that a slim majority of Australians were willing to go to war with China over Taiwan…

[BiggusDickus]

@afterspivak

Reviving this thread to say that this abandonment idiocy apparently affects emeritus professors in Australia too. Here, for your Friday night consideration, is what Hugh White thinks of us:

https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1542408761364455424?cxt=HHwWgICh-ZWm3ucqAAAA

Guy

It is logical. To avoid war against a persistent aggressor, concede. Eventually you concede everything.

[Belgian_Pie]

@nz

I’ve gotten the impression these past few years that Australia is already run by China

And don’t forget Africa.

[Charlie_Jack]

Can the US have it both ways?

How the US stopped Taiwan's bomb - Taipei Times

[afterspivak]

@BiggusDickus

To avoid war against a persistent aggressor, concede. Eventually you concede everything.

As we know, that worked out great in the 1930s and 1940s.

Guy

[TT]

@Belgian_Pie

And don’t forget Africa.

Also running Australia ?

[Charlie_Jack]

There have been times when Taiwan itself–or at least parts of it–seemed to be considering abandoning Taiwan:

It was something of a bombshell. Taiwan’s new government, President Chen Shui-bian told American visitors last week, was prepared to accept a 1992 consensus with Beijing that “there is one China, but each side could have its own interpretation.” That accord had helped produce intermittent cross-strait talks, which were suspended last year when then president Lee Teng-hui declared that Taiwan actually had a “special state-to-state relationship” with the mainland. A return to the 1992 consensus was a Beijing precondition for a resumption of the dialogue — and Chen seemed to be complying. But a backlash quickly erupted, especially from Chen’s own Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), which formally espouses political independence for Taiwan. The next day, Taipei appeared to backpedal on the president’s offer, leaving everyone scratching their heads.

–Allen T. Cheng, “Did He Say ‘One China’? Chen tried to, but the DPP balked,” Asiaweek.com, July 15, 2000

Taiwanese media, citing a Chinese media report quoting PLA Major General Luo Yuan (羅援), said a Taiwanese speaker recently told a gathering of retired generals from both sides of the Strait in China: “From now on, we should no longer separate the ROC Army and the PLA. We are all China’s army.”

–Shih Hsiu-chuan, Vincent Y. Chao and Rich Chang / Staff Reporters, with CNA, “General’s alleged comment draws fire,” Taipei Times, June 9, 2011

A government document ordering schools’ procurement of teaching materials that mark Nanjing as the capital of the Republic of China (ROC) and Taipei as the current location of the central government indicated President Ma Ying-jeou’s (馬英九) administration’s persistent attempts to promote the links between Taiwan and China, as well as the administration’s misinterpretation of the Constitution, lawmakers and academics said yesterday.

–Chris Wang / Staff reporter, “Schools to teach Nanjing is ROC capital: ministry” Taipei Times, December 4, 2013

Ma also made the controversial claim that the Taiwanese people should be open to cross-Strait unification and allow the Chinese government to unify Taiwan peacefully. When asked about his view on the TAIPEI Act recently passed by the U.S. Senate and awaiting vote in the House of Representatives, Ma called the Taiwan-U.S. relationship friendly but inconsequential, reported Storm Media.

–Taiwan News, Staff Writer, “Taiwan should be open to unification with China: ex-President Ma,” Taiwan News, November 1, 2019

[afterspivak]

@Charlie_Jack

[From the Chris Wang 2013 article linked above]: A government document ordering schools’ procurement of teaching materials that mark Nanjing as the capital of the Republic of China (ROC) and Taipei as the current location of the central government indicated President Ma Ying-jeou’s (馬英九) administration’s persistent attempts to promote the links between Taiwan and China

That Ma-era initiative led to the anti-black box student movement, led by high school students, who pushed back and occupied the Ministry of Education—which was actually in Taipei, and not in Nanjing—in protest.

Guy

[Charlie_Jack]

@afterspivak

That Ma-era initiative led to the anti-black box student movement, led by high school students, who pushed back and occupied the Ministry of Education—which was actually in Taipei, and not in Nanjing—in protest.

Guy

I don’t mean to quibble, but I thought that one was mainly about the lack of a proper deliberative process for the Cross-Strait Services Trade Pact:

[Reporter:] How do you think the process of the pact should have been handled?

[Lynn Miles:] Nothing to add to what the students inside have said. We are not against a pact with the PRC, just don’t let it be a black box operation. The way things were done was black ops from the get-go. They got too confident (typically, the imperial center’s getting stupider and stupider), and so that 30-second review process was too laughable for words, and BIG BANG. As to how it should be done, I’m with the students there too. Start all over. That’s what Horse and Riders cannot accept, but now they are running out of options. If Beijing isn’t too scared, let them and Ma come to Ground Zero and sit down and talk over a few things. We don’t want a Tibet-style takeover by economic means.

(boldface added by me)

–Interview with China Post, posted on Taiwan Voice (on Facebook–think a log-in is required in order to view the interview, but I think the interview is available in part or in whole elsewhere on the Internet), March 26, 2014

[afterspivak]

@Charlie_Jack

I don’t mean to quibble, but I thought that one was mainly about the lack of a proper deliberative process for the Cross-Strait Trade Pact

Oh, that was the sunflower movement—massive protests, hundreds of thousands of people involved, with the famous occupation of the Legislative Yuan and the attempted (and failed) breach of the Executive Yuan in 2014.

The 2015 anti-black box movement I referred to is pretty nicely summarized and analyzed here:

Five Days of Struggle Against Black Box Education In Taiwan | New Bloom Magazine

Guy

[Charlie_Jack]

@afterspivak

The anti-black box movement I referred to is pretty nicely summarized here:

Five Days of Struggle Against Black Box Education In Taiwan | New Bloom Magazine

Guy

Ah, my apologies. I forgot about that one.

But I’m going to let my point stand about Taiwan itself, or at least parts of it, “considering abandoning Taiwan.”

Kinda hard to favor someone who doesn’t always seem to favor himself.

On the other hand, though, if the US isn’t going to support Taiwan, then it’s none of the US’s business if Taiwan develops nukes (not that I like nukes–I get the creeps thinking about them).