I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
Give me a break. Why don’t some of you fine folks here who are so anti-American start a thread called “Why I hate Americans” and then you can let off all your anger and sprew forth your diatribes and perhaps an award could be given to the one person who comes up with the most insulting thing to say?
If one reads many of the posts on these forums closely, it is clear that there is a definite feeling of hostility against Americans. Why is that? I have seldom read any comments from the Americans who post in Forumosa which blatantly attacks people from other countries who post here. Why is that?
Ok, now just attack away. This American is waiting for and is expecting many insults and snide comments based on what I have posted here.
[quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
Give me a break.[/quote]
I personally haven’t noticed any such trend (perhaps I follow the wrong threads) - the culture that gets the most bashing is Taiwanese IMO!
The question is, how does one make any concept that could cast a negative light on Americans without being construed as American-bashing? I made a similar (offhand) comment here and also got jumped on for it. Which is fine, but in both my post and the ones in this thread, I see deliberate efforts to be tactful and not to make any slights on character or on Americans as a people (“it might be something about the vowel sounds”,“my (British) sister…has a voice like foghorn”,“majority of people speak at normal volumes”). In both threads, people still took vehement offence. I’m going to ask you - if you honestly feel some Americans sound loud, is there any possible way to express this opinon without causing offence? If it’s the off-topic aspect you object to, that’s fair enough, but no-one jumped in when people said Hong Kong and Guangzhou people were loud.
Interestingly, in both threads an American actually agreed with the comment as well 
[quote=“daasgrrl”][quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
Give me a break.[/quote]
I personally haven’t noticed any such trend (perhaps I follow the wrong threads) - the culture that gets the most bashing is Taiwanese IMO!
The question is, how does one make any concept that could cast a negative light on Americans without being construed as American-bashing? I made a similar (offhand) comment here and also got jumped on for it. Which is fine, but in both my post and the ones in this thread, I see deliberate efforts to be tactful and not to make any slights on character or on Americans as a people (“it might be something about the vowel sounds”,“my (British) sister…has a voice like foghorn”,“majority of people speak at normal volumes”). In both threads, people still took vehement offence. I’m going to ask you - if you honestly feel some Americans sound loud, is there any possible way to express this opinon without causing offence? If it’s the off-topic aspect you object to, that’s fair enough, but no-one jumped in when people said Hong Kong and Guangzhou people were loud.
Interestingly, in both threads an American actually agreed with the comment as well [/quote]
dassgirl,
While it may be true that some people are “making deliberate efforts to be tactful and not to make any slights on character or on Americans as a people,” I simply find it rather perplexing how someone can post a message asking if others had noticed that Taiwanese people are loud, and some people reponded by pointing out that it is Americans who are loud. I don’t think this answered the poster’s question and, yes, I did perceive these comments directed toward Americans as negative, irrelevant, and snide.
Although I agree with you that there are negative comments about Taiwanese people on this site, I have not noticed that there are very many anti-British/Canadian/Australian/German/New Zealand, etc. comments but there does seem to be a very generous amount of anti-American comments posted on a regular basis.
Perhaps the comments may seem innocent enough, such as Americans being loud, but over time, such comments can leave one with the general feeling that Americans are not well-liked and that we are not as dignified as people from other countries. Some posts have left me with the impression that certain people find Americans to be a bunch of loudmouths who generally don’t know how to act properly when we are in public.
While I do understand your dilemma about how is it possible for one to express an opinion about a group without being seen as “bashing” the group, I would suggest that one way may be to make certain that the opinion offered is in direct response to a question asked and not merely be an opinion expressed which has nothing to do with the question being asked. In other words, imagine a question like, "Are Japanese/Spanish/ whatever people nice or nasty? The question deserves a direct answer. However, the best way to respond is not to say, “Yes, the Japanese are nice people but I think that most Americans are quite rude people.” The answer is not relevant and it can be perceived by some, like me, to be an unprovoked attack upon the group which is being criticized for no apparent reason.
I don’t know for certain where you are from, dassgirl, (I think Australia or New Zealand), but I have read many of your posts and you seem to be a reasonable, intelligent and generally nice person, as are many of the other people who post on this site. Thus, my objection to some of the posts being anti-American are not meant to be taken as a response to any one person but simply as a general observation based on my reading of various posts on this site.
As for other Americans not objecting to posts I find to be anti-American, or even if other Americans may agree with the viewpoints of those people I disagree with, I can understand and accept that. After all, people are different but this doesn’t mean that one viewpoint is better than another.
I think part of it stems back to Americans’ hypersensitivity about damn near everything nowadays. In the U.S., you can’t use the word “niggardly” without the NAACP calling for your head on a plate.
On the other hand, a lot of it is America-bashing, as when many of the leftist die-hards around here post crap about “no blood for oil!” – as if France or Russia actually cared about their bleeding Iraqis white under the U.N. “oil for bribes” program. Oh, wait, they weren’t talking about that, ha-ha! They meant to imply that Bush was invading Iraq to colonize it and steal all the oil. Funny how that didn’t happen, and how they don’t bring up the U.N. program at all.
Frankly, it seems that everyone has it out for Americans nowadays. The hatred and anger directed at us as a nation are as palpable as any of the atrocities we are accused of. Might as well get used to the fact that the world sees us like this. In the most general sense, of course.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinions on me or anyone else who calls the U.S.A. home. But anybody’s ill judgements about me or anyone else who is American serve little purpose other than to show how full of hot air you are.
If you are American and find some comments on this board offensive, take it with a grain of salt. Remember the position our country is in, and that of the rest of the world.
Not directing this at anyone on these boards. I’m just stating my thoughts on the argument of being offended by comments here. Be proud of where you come from and don’t let some piddling message board poster ruin it for you. 
It’s just tall poppy syndrome. When you’re the king of the hill, everybody else wants to take you down a peg. If you look at a lot of the literature of the 19th century, you’ll find similar anti-British sentiments in almost the exact same language!, because they occupied the world’s reigning superpower position that the U.S. does today. So relax - this kind of baiting comes with the territory. Once Brazil or China or whatever country comes to dominate the world a hundred years hence, they’ll get theirs.
[quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
[/quote]
I saw nothing of the sort in that thread. It’s about people talking loudly, and some people politely put forth their opinion that Americans tend to talk loudly in public places. What’s the big deal?
[quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
[/quote]
:snore:
Interesting and thought provoking thread. I promise to cease my cliched rants about the shortcomings of the United States.
The instant it and many of it’s reps stop proving them correct.
[quote=“daltongang”][quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
[/quote]
I saw nothing of the sort in that thread. It’s about people talking loudly, and some people politely put forth their opinion that Americans tend to talk loudly in public places. What’s the big deal?[/quote]
Actually, the original poster was writing about Taiwanese people speaking loudly and some of the respondents wrote about Americans being the ones who are loud. My point was that these were irrelevant answers which had nothing to do with the question being asked.
I then went one step further and stated that I believed, and I may have been mistaken in my belief, that this is simply an example of American bashing which I have noticed that has occured on this site at various times.
The fact that the people may have been put forth their snide comments “politely” in no ways mitigates what I perceived to be irrelevant and negative comments directed towards Americans.
Also, as I said in a previous post, if you, an American, don’t agree with me, I completely understand. People have their own opinions, and even if I don’t agree with you, I still stick with my original opinion while at the same time respecting yours.
Personally I think you’re being a tad bit hypersensitive, Cable.
So someone said that Americans are loud. What’s the big deal?
A) It’s true
B) As far as insults go, that’s pretty mild. I mean, it might not even be an insult, just an observation - depends on how they say it. I mean, how would it sound if I turned it around and said, “Scandinavians sure are quiet.” (Overgeneralized) Observation or insult? C’mon, do you really want to get upset every time somebody makes some generalized observation about some group of people? You’d get offended at practically everything. Compared to the generalizations made about Taiwanese on these forums, something as mild as “Americans are loud,” isn’t even a blip on the radar.
Hey, Canadians get their fair share of abuse too… 
Americans, in general, are louder than people from other countries. Is there a problem with that? Do you feel it is wrong to be loud? It could be that they are more confident. Maybe.
People shouldn’t be so touchy about stuff like that. I didn’t see the French getting all upset and attacking Forumosa because of the anti French thread.
And what about all this sheep shagging New Zealander business 
I think ‘polite’ and ‘snide’ are diametrically opposed concepts, actually. If someone’s really trying to abuse you, why would they bother even trying to be polite? Are some Americans loud? If you think this is false, then you’re quite free to argue the point on its merits. If it’s true, then why aren’t people entitled to say so without being accused of setting out on a deliberate campaign to be ‘negative’ about an entire country and its people? Irrelevant, yes, but then most posts on Forumosa stray from topic at some stage or another, and going from the loudness of one culture to another is hardly a big stretch.
If you told a Cantonese person they were loud, they’d probably give you a disbelieving look and wonder what your problem was.
I’m just imagining the furore if someone said “Americans like to f*ck sheep”. Kiwis in Australia do put up with a lot of that. I’m remembering the time one of the guys originally from NZ left, or got engaged or something, and the office gave him an inflatable sheep (complete with lipstick and appropriate, uh, orifices) as a present. I suppose the scariest thing was that they sold them 
[quote=“cableguy”][quote=“daltongang”][quote=“cableguy”]I think it is wonderful how some people posting on Forumosa seem to take every opportunity to bash Americans. The original poster was writing about Taiwanese people who speak loudly and then some people decided to rant against Americans.
[/quote]
I saw nothing of the sort in that thread. It’s about people talking loudly, and some people politely put forth their opinion that Americans tend to talk loudly in public places. What’s the big deal?[/quote]
Actually, the original poster was writing about Taiwanese people speaking loudly and some of the respondents wrote about Americans being the ones who are loud. My point was that these were irrelevant answers which had nothing to do with the question being asked.
[/quote]
Its quite relevant. Certainly a comparison of the volume of speech of different nationalities could be illuminating here. What is loudly? To a Taiwanese an American and a European, different standards may well be being used.
[quote]
I then went one step further and stated that I believed, and I may have been mistaken in my belief, that this is simply an example of American bashing which I have noticed that has occured on this site at various times.
The fact that the people may have been put forth their snide comments “politely” in no ways mitigates what I perceived to be irrelevant and negative comments directed towards Americans.[/quote]
If they were snide, they couldn’t have been polite. That was my point, I did not find them snide but rather forthright. I agree that you are being too sensitive, ironically that is another common observation about Americans.
OK fair enough Cheers
I think ‘polite’ and ‘snide’ are diametrically opposed concepts, actually. If someone’s really trying to abuse you, why would they bother even trying to be polite? Are some Americans loud? If you think this is false, then you’re quite free to argue the point on its merits. If it’s true, then why aren’t people entitled to say so without being accused of setting out on a deliberate campaign to be ‘negative’ about an entire country and its people? Irrelevant, yes, but then most posts on Forumosa stray from topic at some stage or another, and going from the loudness of one culture to another is hardly a big stretch.
dassgirl,
With all due respect, I don’t agree that “‘polite’ and ‘snide’ are diametrically opposed concepts.” I think that people can and do make comments which can be said in a “nice” way but which, in fact, are anything but nice.
For instance, if someone says that another person who has gained a lot of weight sure has a very healthy appetite, this in fact could be a “dig” criticizing the one who is overweight. (Granted this may not be a great example but it is the only one I can think of at the moment).
You also asked “If someone’s really trying to abuse you, why would they bother even trying to be polite?” My response would be that often the one party making the abusive comments may be doing so in a covert rather than overt way in order to mask their true feelings. Why would they do this? So that they cannot be accused of being hostile to others, but in fact, such a person harbors deep feelings of hostility against those who their comments are directed toward. These people may not want a direct confrontation with the ones they dislike, so they try to disguise their true feelings. Lest you think I am simply being paranoid, let me offer a hypothetical situation.
A man is invited to a dinner and everything is perfect. The man seems to love the meal and he compliments the host by saying that he was quite delighted to discover that the host could make such a fine meal using the cheapest of meats. On the one hand it appears to be a compliment, but is it really? I suggest it is actually not a compliment at all, but it is instead a criticism of the food that was served.
You also said that if I disagree with what was being written by someone then I am “quite free to argue the point on its merits,” but “If it’s true, then why aren’t people entitled to say so without being accused of setting out on a deliberate campaign to be ‘negative’ about an entire country and its people.” First of all, I did, albeit perhaps poorly, try to argue the point on its merits by saying it was irrelevant to the question being asked. Next, if the comments are true, then I must admit to being shocked because America is a hugh country and it is made up of a widely diverse population which, I truly doubt, can be said to all be one thing (loud or otherwise).
However, my point has never been whether American people are louder than other people when they speak. Instead, my point has always been that the people who posted irrelevant answers to a direct question were guilty of bashing Americans and I still believe this to be true because the comments were directed toward Americans and yet the original post had nothing to do with Americans.
I’m just imagining the furore if someone said “Americans like to f*ck sheep”. Kiwis in Australia do put up with a lot of that. I’m remembering the time one of the guys originally from NZ left, or got engaged or something, and the office gave him an inflatable sheep (complete with lipstick and appropriate, uh, orifices) as a present. I suppose the scariest thing was that they sold them [/quote]
Ok, can we try that out then?
“Americans like to have sex with sheep.”
There you go, I’ve gone and done it now 
[quote=“mod lang”]Personally I think you’re being a tad bit hypersensitive, Cable.
So someone said that Americans are loud. What’s the big deal?
A) It’s true
B) As far as insults go, that’s pretty mild. I mean, it might not even be an insult, just an observation - depends on how they say it. I mean, how would it sound if I turned it around and said, “Scandinavians sure are quiet.” (Overgeneralized) Observation or insult? C’mon, do you really want to get upset every time somebody makes some generalized observation about some group of people? You’d get offended at practically everything. Compared to the generalizations made about Taiwanese on these forums, something as mild as “Americans are loud,” isn’t even a blip on the radar.[/quote]
mod lang,
I agree that the opinions about Americans being loud are extremely minor comments which on the surface seem harmless enough. I have heard, as I am sure you have, much worse things said about Americans, both here on this site and elsewhere. However, recently I have started to detect a most definite feeling that Americans are disliked and thus we are being attacked for no reason at all concerning a myriad of subjects.
For instance, I recently met a Taiwanese man who blamed Americans for the current problems in Taiwan with the presidential election. I pointed out to this person that many Americans, like myself, are allowed to pay taxes but we aren’t allowed to vote, so we really aren’t to be blamed for the way things are turning out on this island. However, just the thought that we can be accused of somehow being the ones who are responsible for who gets elected president is enough to make me wonder why people hold such views toward Americans in the world, in Taiwan and on Forumosa.
Thus, you may be right that I am being hypersensitive, and for that I would like to apologize to the good people who post here on this site. Even those people I disagree with make many excellent points and I respect their opinions greatly.
I would also like to thank you and the other posters for allowing me to belabor my point, perhaps ad nauseam. This was never my original intention but perhaps it turned out that way. In any event, I hope my postings have not offended you or other posters here. I simply wanted to make a point about what I perceived to be an unwarranted attack upon American people.
[quote=“Bassman”]
Ok, can we try that out then?
“Americans like to have sex with sheep.”
There you go, I’ve gone and done it now 
[/quote]
Yeah, and kiwis are loud…