So, let’s have a discussion about the recent resurgence of Che Guevera worship among the weak minded. How many people think that Che Guevara was an insignificant poseur and mass murderer? How many think that like John Walker Lindh he had issues that could have been better resolved on a shrink’s couch? But from what I hear, Che was handsome and he did have a lot of strong “feelings” about things. How does that make you feel? Does that help validate you?
Not in death he wasn’t
I don’t know Chewy. I don’t think that I for one have ever seen Che looking better though I suppose if we had the opportunity to dig him up and take a look at him today I might be wrong.
I do notice however the same arched brow, the same deepset eyes, the same chiseled jaw, the same determined feelings. I for one have to say, Che, wow, what a man.
He could have used some Botox.
Or perhaps Richardm, some botulism toxin (bo-tox) a long time before he was brought down by a bullet.
Not in death he wasn’t.[/quote]
Damn, even his cadaver’s better looking than I am, at least in the morning, at night, or in between.
Although I rarely find myself on the same side of an argument, Fred, I’m with you on this. Che looks much better with a few bullets in him.
By the way, Communist chic is not limited to Che. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in China or Vietnam, but Mao and Ho Chi Minh T-shirts are hot-selling souvenir items for Westerners (much less so for the locals).
Funny how these sensitive souls like wearing T-shirts with a mass murderer emblazoned on the front. Makes you wonder why Auschwitz and Dachau T-shirts aren’t more popular.
My favorite Che’ t-shirt
…oh …wait…thats not Che’…oops!..my bad…
I thought Campanero was a decent read. It clearly articulated his failings, like his failure (early on) to recognize flaws in the Soviet System, his inabliliy to engage in self-critique. It also discussed several of his more endearing qualities. In addition there was decent critique of an earlier phase of hero worship that lead to deaths of hundreds or thousands of poor kids trying to follow his model of Guerilla warfare.
I just find the whole idea of Che-chic quite ironic, and good evidence that capitalists will try to sell anything.
Have you guys read any good books on Che lately?
It is a good book, they know nothing about Che, Fred is simply trying to provoke me, Che was not nearly as bad as the above ignorant posters claim and he actually had many admirable qualities, as you know if you’ve read Companero (though he was somewhat naive and misguided), as I will explain in the other Che thread later this weekend. Be patient Freddy, I will enlighten you shortly.
Isn’t there something deeply perverse about laughing at a corpse? Or is it like the geurillas in banda ache used to say - Even the rich and famous look ridiculous without their heads on?
I read somewhere that Stalin loved his grandchildren.
I’m sure Che had admirable qualitites, but mass murder and ex-judice execution in my book kind of overshadows them.
Is there a conservative club where I can go watch TC, Fred and you other guys strut your stuff. Liberals too, just for added pleasure. Is there ever going to be a great debate off?
I would offer to hold it in my school if you would offer to clean the beer off the floor before you left.
Yeah, I know I only asked because I’m starting to wonder if they can read…
Yeah, I know I only asked because I’m starting to wonder if they can read…[/quote]
If you show me where it says he DIDN’T personally take part in ex-judice killings and that he WASN’T directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, I’ll happily stand corrected.
When you refer to ex-judice executions, are you referring to executions on the battlefield (deserters, etc) or while he was in charge of executions at the cuban prison?
Both, I suppose. And not discounting his happy little spree in Bolivia, etc. I’m not disputing that he had an intellect but he was a murderous thug nonetheless.
I hate to stoop to such a comparison, because I have no respect for George Bush, but Che was certainly less of a murderous thug than Bush, who was responsible for scores of tortures and the extrajudicial killings of more than 30,000 civilians in Iraq alone (he is absolutely responsible for them; without his actions they never would have occurred). While it’s hard to know Bush’s motivation for those killings, since he has changed his story so many times, I believe his latest version is that those deaths were necessary collateral damage in his quest to get rid of an evil government that abused its people.
If Che were responsible for killiings of a couple thousand soldiers (not civilians as in Bush’s case) who committed atrocities against innocent people, fought against the freedom fighters who were trying to liberate innocent citizens or otherwise threatened his efforts to overthrow an evil government that abused its people, that would make Che the lesser of the thugs, right?
MOD: can you please merge this with the existing thread: Cult of Che is a Fraud. Thanks.
That’s it, MT. You won. I stand corrected.
Seriously, if you are familiar with the facts surrounding Che’s life, then tell me why he was more of murderous thug than George Bush, whose actions unequivocably have resulted in the deaths of more than 30,000 civilians in Iraq – a wedding party blown up here, a 5,000 pound bomb on the wrong house there, etc. Those innocent civilians didn’t ask to be blown up by US bombs. Why does the US government have the right to decide that their lives are expendable in a mission launched by the US government, not by the citizens of that foreign land that the US invaded?
Che killed a fraction of the number killed by US forces. He didn’t drop scores of massive bombs on distant targets where it was obvious that countless civilians would be “sacrificed.” The people whose deaths he was responsible for were overwhelmingly soldiers fighting to retain the power of corrupt, oppressive governments, deserters from his ranks who threatened his efforts to overthrow such wrongful governments, and the like. In my mind, those deaths are less horrific than the random indiscriminate killings of a far greater number of innocent civilians in Iraq, a country whose people did not ask to be invaded.
If you’re not really familiar with teh facts of Che’s life, that’s fine, I understand. I wasn’t either a few months ago and only decided to read up on him to know whether there was any truth to the insults being cast about on this forum by people that I suspected didn’t know what they were talking about. Now that I’ve read a thorough bio of the guy I realize I was right – almost all of the posters here really don’t know anything about Che. But if you do know about the subject, then please tell me sincerely why Che was more of a murderous thug than George Bush.