Are English language blogs on the Taiwan politics monitored?

  1. I don’t think bringing up Hawaii or Puerto Rico are great examples of maintaining the Union. Because in both cases the US federal government have sent in agents to violently suppress their respective independent movements. In otherwords, you acknowledge ROC has every right to violently suppress TI advocates to maintain the integrity of ROC.

  2. I think there is some clarification on the shades of “independence.” Some ROC citizens like myself don’t support TI, because we don’t believe in the the racially charge reasoning behind TI. Nor do we wish to see ROC replaced with ROT. And we are quite happy maintaining Status Quo, de facto independence, until a peaceful resolution to the Strait Issue can be reach.

We don’t fear invasion by PRC, because our political view is tolerated by the PRC. In the long term we don’t see any problem with an eventual reunification as a final solution to the Strait Issue.

Nor does he point out the GIO in Taiwan promotes a certain type of propaganda on the island through the news service which claim USA will come to Taiwan rescue no matter what. You usually see the Lao Wai talk head from AIT dubbed over with these claims of unconditional support for Taiwan every other night.

Do you think that this type of news embolden TI supporters on Taiwan?

Funny how in the USA we rarely here of this news that we are about to save Taiwan with those troops that we don’t have enough of, against that unnamed country in the axis of evil, who happens to be our largest trading partner. You know during prime time news, where you see our boys in the sandbox saving/spreading democracy.

  1. I think it kind of strange to keep promoting the idea of protecting the right of the minority, while also promoting the idea of exclude certain ethnic groups from immigrating to American. The only group that has been discriminated against in that fashion in the USA were the Chinese during the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Would you protect my right if started the movement to exclude the undesirable from Europe and Africa from immigrant to the USA.

Anyways in the ROC the people who are in the minority are people that support “immediate independence” and “immediate unification.” Unfortunately, only one of these groups persistent antics will lead us to war with the PRC in the near future.

Folks, paragraph is your friend. Otherwise, continue your rants.

As for TI, it seems to be losing steam everywhere.

Canada is part of the axis of evil?! :astonished:

Don’t fact check me that carefully…
But yes Canada on the short list of evil doers. Ask Bill O’Reily he’ll back me up.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Don’t fact check me that carefully…
But yes Canada on the short list of evil doers. Ask Bill O’Reily he’ll back me up.[/quote]
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
BTW, interesting thread. I’m not in Taiwan right now, but there’s plenty of separatists/sovereignists in the region where I live.

[quote=“sjcma”]
Canada is part of the axis of evil?! :astonished:[/quote]

Two words:

Bryan Adams

[quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“sjcma”]
Canada is part of the axis of evil?! :astonished:[/quote]

Two words:

Bryan Adams[/quote]
Actually, it should be: Céline Dion :offtopic:

[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“sjcma”]
Canada is part of the axis of evil?! :astonished:[/quote]

Two words:

Bryan Adams[/quote]
Actually, it should be: Céline Dion :offtopic:[/quote]

Canada’s very own Weapon of Mass Destruction.

ac, when I was in Taiwan I also found that a lot of Taiwan people were hoping, but not betting that The US would come to the rescue. I told them don’t even bet on it because the government has to have the support of the people for war first, it can’t just promise to go to war ahead of time.

Probably most people on Taiwan don’t want to gamble, which is why they support the status quo and don’t believe the GIO propaganda you mention (forumosans, does the propaganda ac mentions in fact exist? I don’t remember seeing that on TV).

I don’t think the majority wants reunification, even if it is peaceful, but if the PRC changes a whole lot, who knows? Taiwan could at least go under a PRC defense umbrella. Of course the two sides are now bound by trade.

What I find most interesting is the whole racial thing- which is not even racial as westerners understand the term. Taiwanese took out their anger over KMT corruption on a lot of regular people who had a parent from mainland China and who didn’t benefit from the corruption. I think anger and hurt at this discrimination is making waishengren not want to be part of an independent Taiwan, PRC threats aside.

Taiwan needs a leader who can bring all the different groups on Taiwan together- someone who will not be divisive by elevating Tai Yu culture above all others (I don’t know if CSB is doing that or not. Didn’t Lee Teng-Hui talk about the ‘New Taiwanese’ or xin taiwan ren, which was an inclusive concept- how did that play?)

If I were a PRC strategist, I would try to find some way to exploit the waishengren/Taiwanese divide- are have they found a way to do that already?

I remember when I was talking to my students on Taiwan on the anniversary of 228. That was back in 96. We had both waishengren and ‘Taiwanese’ children in the class, but students didn’t know who was who. I could not believe the ugly things that the 10 year olds were saying in blanket statements about all waishengren, the faces of contempt. I told them ’ you know, I’m not going to say who, but you have friends in this class who are waishengren. Are they bad too?’ The waishengren students were looking at me nervously. I can’t remember clearly the response from the ‘Taiwanese’ students- I think it was just a shrug. I don’t think what I was saying had ever come up in conversation before with them. I was shocked because I had always been told that the younger generation didn’t make waishengren/‘taiwanese’ distinctions- but I guess their parents still did and were teaching it to their children.

I feel anger towards Taiwanese in you, ac, the whole ‘Green Terror’ thing in another post you made. But I also feel in the way you react to some of my points that you feel anger towards Americans too. Like you said, identity is a funny thing. How can we identify if we don’t feel accepted? My answer to that is that there are always individuals out there in any race, religion, culture, however you want to slice people up into a category, who will understand you and empathize with you more than even your own brother or sister. But that’s on the personal relations side.

As for Taiwan and China- keep the status quo so nobody gets killed. Where I differ from you is I believe that China can not use racial or historical claims to take Taiwan- people are not property to be claimed.

ac, just read bevin’s blog and i posted a comment until I saw that he ony wants the comments of team members, and my comment wouldn’t go through. i’m glad that you are willing to hear the thoughts of others with different view points, because he apparently is not. that boy has some serious issues. but i would like to get the book he translated, in the original chinese version. do you know how i could get it? - my reading ability is at the 4 grade level and my writing ability is at the pinyin, bopomofo level, so i need to practice. you said you were born in taipei and then came to the US. were you able to keep up your reading/writing ability in mandarin? do you know pinyin?

Over 1 million ROC citizens are living a working full time in the PRC these days, would you considered that PRC is changing a lot? PRC will probably continue to change to something most ROC citizens would perceive as non-threatening. However, relationships are a two way street as they say, TI has to give up their racial component of de-Sinification or Neo-Taiwanese or Tai-hua as a political agenda. Not only is it insulting to a large group of population that is not Hoklo on Taiwan, but also it is insulting to the people in the PRC. These insults are why TI has face such vigorous opposition locally in Taiwan and abroad.

By western term (specifically the USA), the hodge podge of ethnic groups in this region are just lumped together as Asian for convenience. Just like the hodge podge of ethnic Europeans are just White. This of course is convenient for racial politics in the USA. However, it doesn’t lend itself to greater understanding of the nuisances in Asia. Of course there are exceptions, individual for personal, academic, or career reasons that educate themselves to these issues. This probably addresses your very first issue, of why USA public is not concerned about Taiwan? Because most people in the USA don’t know the difference between the various ethnic groups in the region.

The problem with locating this “leader” is that TI has racially charged the population, reintroducing the WSR and BSR divide. The only way the pan-Green know how to mobilize their base is to appeal the ugly and divisive emotions caused by recent Taiwan history. It is similar to White politicians in the USA, who mobilize their base by suggesting the lost of “American values.” That American Culture is being diluted by these foreign immigrants, who can never really become authentic “Americans.” To me the parallels in nativist politics on both sides of the Pacific cannot be ignored. In the USA, or at least in the Northeast, we are taught the follies of these exclusionary policies that lead to a Civil War and the Civil Rights movements. So if you perceive somehow that I am angry at Taiwan and angry America, perhaps it is because I only foresee a violent future in Taiwan if they continue down this path and I have the NYC public school system to thank for lovely look into the future.

If you look at what appeals to the hard-core Green base, what candidate appeals to them. Someone Hoklo, Someone who speaks mostly Minnan, Someone who believes in isolationism, Someone who believes in localization, Someone who believes in economic protectionism.

What is the biggest issue facing Taiwan? It is the “Strait Issue,” it is the “One China” issue. Without mentioning specifics, what is the paradigm of a leader that can tackle these issues without contradicting the “Democratic mandate” of their base? I see it as Someone that is a centrist, Someone that embraces internationalism, Someone that believes in diversity, Someone one that believe in economic globalization, Someone that believes in pro-active political engagement of “Red China.”

What preventing this guy from becoming the next leader of ROC? He was born in HK and his Minnan is marginal.

And why not? We Chinese on Taiwan believe the Mainland belongs to us. The Russians, Indians, Koreans, and Vietnamese will have to return some property to us when we return.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]

And why not? We Chinese on Taiwan believe the Mainland belongs to us. The Russians, Indians, Koreans, and Vietnamese will have to return some property to us when we return.[/quote]
Don’t forget Mongolia. And all of Mongolia at that! It’ll have to be renamed, of course, by adding “Outer” to the beginning. And don’t ignore the eastern portions of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan. I think right after the great 光復, passports should be handed out to the Taliban currently residing within the new Empire’s borders. Since everyone will be in 光復 fever, might as well swallow up Myanmar (Burma) in the process. Singapore can be thrown in the mix with a properly planned annexation a la Hawaii. Then it’s onto Chinatowns around the world! :wink:

I’m glad the PRC is changing as you say- I have never been there. I would like it to continue to change in one more regard- could you please beg the CCP to take the missiles pointing at Taiwan down? They would help their cause more that way- more carrot less stick!

On a more personal note, my nephews live in Elmhurst, Queens, and I lived in Woodside for a while. The NYC school they went to was really bad- they didn’t even know how to write in cursive in middle school! They also had some problems reading it, not to mention problems with vocab. My husband’s family is not highly educated, which doesn’t mean they are dumb. They just can’t help their kids with school work. I helped them out when they were young, but it’s been hard for them walking the line between Chinese parents and American culture. I think my brother-in-law kind of gave up when they hit highschool. Their parents tried to always keep them in the apartment not only because it was dangerous outside, but because they didn’t want American culture to contaminate them. It did anyway. As an ESL teacher I’m really not worried about the immigrant influence drastically changing America because I see that the children of immigrants, usually under the age of 10 or 11 when they come to the US, identify with the American side. After 10,11,12, their cultural identity is set more in their home countries. Also, immigrant kids are generally the most polite, hard-working kids in the school -all nationalities included- so I don’t see that cultural side of immigration as negative. I want to cut back on legal immigration and enforce illegal immigration laws because of the drain on social services (like the money the town has to pay for my salary) and the watering down of wages

[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“ac_dropout”]

And why not? We Chinese on Taiwan believe the Mainland belongs to us. The Russians, Indians, Koreans, and Vietnamese will have to return some property to us when we return.[/quote]
Don’t forget Mongolia. And all of Mongolia at that! It’ll have to be renamed, of course, by adding “Outer” to the beginning. And don’t ignore the eastern portions of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan. I think right after the great 光復, passports should be handed out to the Taliban currently residing within the new Empire’s borders. Since everyone will be in 光復 fever, might as well swallow up Myanmar (Burma) in the process. Singapore can be thrown in the mix with a properly planned annexation a la Hawaii. Then it’s onto Chinatowns around the world! :wink:[/quote]
Exactly, I like the way you think. But we have to draw the line at reintergrating ABC 竹心. They are just plain annoying.

I would just like to point the missiles are point towards for two reasons; USA interest represented by Taiwan, and TI push for de jure Independence. Remove these two factors from Taiwan and the missiles will not be pointed towards the island. I even argue you can remove these two factors from Taiwan with out adversely affecting the current political infrastructure on Taiwan or giving up de facto independence.

USA and Asian education system are slight different. Asian emphasis that everyone reaches a certain standard. NYC is more of sink or swim, with automatic promotion to the next grade. The only saving grace in the NYC system is the magnet high school system, which is based on absolute meritocracy.

This is a political sound bite because of the mid-term elections. Does illegal immigration hurt the overall economy and push down salary? I think the economic studies usually show otherwise. You’re employed to some part because of this issue. Your student’s parents pay sales tax and property tax just for being there. It’s easy to scapegoat the people with the least amount of resources to protect themselves politically in the USA. Who really wants to hear “12 million illegal immigrants may help the economy, and our 2 front war in the Middle East is draining the economy.”

v,

If those are your true sentiments towards the reunification/sovereign, then I just salute you for being consistent and say. I understand your point of view. There are some Chinese who argue the same way.

I’d just add a minor modification to this. You mention a long-winded hypothetical (in the case of the governor of Hawaii) where the government of the United States is also “authoritarian like that of the PRC”, as well as a number of other conditions. Your opinion on the conditions under which independence should be permitted doesn’t matter. It should only be thos who reside in Hawaii today, correct? There are, of course, a number of movements that are moving towards Hawaii independence today. Maybe one day you’ll get your wish. hawaii-nation.

I don’t think Chinese nationalism is hard to explain at all. You speak of the spirit of '76; even in '76 there were many “Americans” loyal to the British crown who fought against the impending war. I in turn refer to the spirit of 1860, when Abraham Lincoln initiated a war that ended up being the most costly in American history… for what? He fought the war for one purpose, and one purpose alone: to maintain a unified United States of America.

Quite frankly, I think that example is also moderately illustrative of why Chinese nationalism remains relevant and important today. What would the United States be today, if the Confederacy had been allowed to stand? I’m not talking about issues like slavery; I personally think it would’ve been outlawed, even in the Confederacy. But I do believe the 50 states that make up the US would be balkanized into feuding states. I do not believe that the United States would have been able to assert and protect her interests world-wide with the same effectiveness thta it does today.

Perhaps part of the current US would’ve joined the Axis during WW2; perhaps part of the US would’ve declared for the Communist bloc during the Cold War; perhaps part of the US would be aligned with Islamic interests in the 21st century. Perhaps Boeing and Microsoft would not be “American” companies, deprived of a single unified market. Perhaps part of the United States, the part with a more modern economy, would’ve embraced more trade with China… leaving the poorer manufacturing/agricultural states to toil along in relative poverty. Perhaps you don’t care. Perhaps you see yourself as a citizen of the world, and the US stamp on your passport is as meaningful as the brand on your athletic shoe. But again, hopefully you understand that you’re in the minority.

Enough about the U.S.; more about China. Take a second and see things from the “Chinese view” (or at least my version of it). I happen to believe the Chinese are no less intelligent, no more “barbaric”, and no less ready for prosperity than any other society/peoples on this planet. In fact, if the performance of ethnic Chinese in western nations are any indication, we are well prepared for prosperity and success. So, why have more than a billion Chinese been born into poverty for over 150 years?

You keep talking about the wonders of democracy, as if that’s sufficient. I see the democratic world filled with the same poverty and stagnation that the Chinese are trying to put behind us. I’m not talking about the United States; I happen to think the US is an amazing nation that has successfully brought unprecedented wealth and prosperity to her people. I’m talking about Haiti; I’m talking about Iraq; I’m talking about India; I’m talking about Brazil; I’m talking about Mexico. None of us want to build China in the image of Mexico or India: democratic nations that have managed little for her citizenry. (No offense to any Mexicans or Indians in the audience.)

I’m even talking about Taiwan: I don’t begrudge at all the wonders of her achievements… but how much of it, from the point of view of every day Taiwanese, was due to democracy? Are the Taiwanese not most proud of the economic miracles of the '70s and '80s?

I for one believe China to be a relatively unique civilization. For more than 2000 years, rather than being torn apart by the same forces that have destroyed every other empire/nation over time… China has maintained largely the same primary axis. Even the foreign “powers” that conquered (Mongols and Manchus) China were absorbed into the fabric that makes up the modern Chinese nation. This has never been easy; this has only been made possible by a philosophy that believed only in unity can we achieve strength and harmony.

You ask me about inspirational heroes. Again, I could give you a long, long catalogue of the great Chinese men that have sacrificed much in the 20th century for the benefit of “China”. But I won’t bother; you can find their profiles on Wikipedia. I’ll just tell you instead, of the experiences of my own family. I look at the generation of my grandparents and beyond, and I see a handful of brilliant individuals that could’ve thrived overseas. Many had US or UK PhDs (from the 1930s); the vast majority returned to China out of a sense of patriotism. They believed they could do a small part in the reconstruction of China. The concept seems a little quaint in this day and age, with so many mercenary folks driven primarily by their own self-profit… only time will show whether China is worth saving.

I believe forging ties with Taiwan is not about what strategic or economic value Taiwan serves; it’s only a matter of time before Taiwan’s becomes an economic footnote to the Chinese mainland. It’s about remaining loyal to our heritage and philosophical traditions, and re-forging some of the same historical patterns that served China so well. I find it a worthy cause to (do my very small part) in preserving the unity and strength of the Chinese nation as a whole on the merits of our shared background, rather than allowing us to be divided into petty, bickering, and distant neighbors.

Don’t forget Mongolia. And all of Mongolia at that! It’ll have to be renamed, of course, by adding “Outer” to the beginning. And don’t ignore the eastern portions of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan. I think right after the great 光復, passports should be handed out to the Taliban currently residing within the new Empire’s borders. Since everyone will be in 光復 fever, might as well swallow up Myanmar (Burma) in the process. Singapore can be thrown in the mix with a properly planned annexation a la Hawaii. Then it’s onto Chinatowns around the world! :wink:[/quote]
Exactly, I like the way you think. But we have to draw the line at reintergrating ABC 竹心. They are just plain annoying.[/quote]
That’s right! Integrate the Taliban, but 竹升 around the world are to be barred, unless they want to work as English teachers in the newly re-acquired Chinese Tajikistan. :smiling_imp:

CSB recently chose to speak taiyu at a recent public news conference in which he was trying to defend himself from critics. He is absolutely being divisive.

No, because in the eyes of “PRC strategists”, Taiwanese are also Chinese. The waishengren/benshengren divide is a total construct of the Taiwanese independence people. They’re the ones trying to define a new reason for the “Taiwanese” majority to reject Chinese nationalism. The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) include many benshengren… Lian Zhan, Wang Jingping, and Qiu Yi come to mind as obvious examples. Not to mention the obvious fact that “taiyu” is also used on the mainland.

So, “PRC strategists” are reaching out to benshengren as well as waishenren. CCTV broadcasts weekly cultural/social programs worldwide for Taiwanese viewers, using taiyu. Chinese nationalism has absolutely no interest in dividing between the two… it’s only the Taiwanese nationalists who’re trying to assert superiority, as your own experience in class shows.

[quote]
As for Taiwan and China- keep the status quo so nobody gets killed. Where I differ from you is I believe that China can not use racial or historical claims to take Taiwan- people are not property to be claimed.[/quote]
I, like most, have no problems with the status quo. Give the situation 50 years and see where the dust settles; I have my own preference, but I’m not sure I’m ready to kill and destroy my in-laws in order to achieve that preference.

But of course racial and historical claims are absolutely relevant in the year 2006. All human beings would agree with you, when the statement is presented as the question of… are people property to be claimed? But your opinion is in the tiny minority worldwide as soon as their own fundamental interests are threatened. You can’t pick up a newspaper today and avoid that fact.

cc, i hope hawaii becomes independent- that doesn’t bother me at all. I could never understand why the American Civil War was really fought- I have to buy a good book on it I guess. All the things you want for China and Taiwan all sound positive. Now you must persuade the Taiwanese to accept your point of view, not force them or scare them. You could just do what the KMT did, which was the -‘zhuan qian jiu hao’ don’t care about anything else -philosophy which looks like what is happening now. Anyway, this thread has reached its conclusion for me. I have enjoyed ‘talking’ with you all and I feel I understand your points of view.

I remember my Chinese brother-in-law once observing how I went against my husband’s wishes/demands when I thought it best to. He said to his brother ‘ai ya! ni gei ta (me,v) yang huai le! wo tai tai hai pa wo.’ My husband can’t bully me- although he tried to do that early in the marriage (and he can yell loud!). Now he has to reason with me. It’s so much more efficient and pleasing to bully and force, but it won’t work if one learns to stand up to it. So reason with the Taiwanese, show them through action in HK and the mainland what the PRC has to offer, but don’t force them, even if you know it will work in the end.

Don’t forget Mongolia. And all of Mongolia at that! It’ll have to be renamed, of course, by adding “Outer” to the beginning. And don’t ignore the eastern portions of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan. I think right after the great 光復, passports should be handed out to the Taliban currently residing within the new Empire’s borders. Since everyone will be in 光復 fever, might as well swallow up Myanmar (Burma) in the process. Singapore can be thrown in the mix with a properly planned annexation a la Hawaii. Then it’s onto Chinatowns around the world! :wink:[/quote]
Exactly, I like the way you think. But we have to draw the line at reintergrating ABC 竹心. They are just plain annoying.[/quote]
That’s right! Integrate the Taliban, but 竹升 around the world are to be barred, unless they want to work as English teachers in the newly re-acquired Chinese Tajikistan. :smiling_imp:[/quote]
Would we get benefits and paid vacations?

Sometimes people have no one to blame but themselves when the government points a gun at them.

Would we get benefits and paid vacations?[/quote]
Of course.

  1. Free blog space so you can be your very own political hack advocating TI (Tajikistan Independence).

  2. All expenses paid vacation to Chinese Afghanistan where you’ll get the best accommodations the Taliban can provide. Free training belts provided.