Yeah, tools, power tools. Drool. I’ve been feminized by my long stay in Taiwan.
Wait on, I just remembered I do have a power tool.
My laundry detergent, Magic Amah! Let me go have a look at the container.
Yep, what I thought; the container proudly proclaims that it is The Power Tool for Stains.
I felt the blood flowing to my loins as I typed that.
That’s your other Power Tool.
[quote]What kind of scooter do you want to buy, a brand new one that never breaks. It sounds like it. I hope you find it, and when you do please tell me where you got it.[/quote]We are discussing either older scooters are as safe as newer ones to ride. I’m saying that older scooters are generally not as safe. You are completely side tracked. No one is discussing how reliable older scooters are vs newer scooters. That’s a fucking no brainer, anyways. :neutral:
marboulette
[quote=“marboulette”][quote]What kind of scooter do you want to buy, a brand new one that never breaks. It sounds like it. I hope you find it, and when you do please tell me where you got it.[/quote]We are discussing either older scooters are as safe as newer ones to ride. I’m saying that older scooters are generally not as safe. You are completely side tracked. No one is discussing how reliable older scooters are vs newer scooters. That’s a fucking no brainer, anyways. :neutral:
marboulette[/quote]
That is not true, why is a newer scooter that much safer than an older scooter that has been taken care of??? Yes there are lots of rats nest scooters out there with bolts falling off all over the place and smoke billowing out (usually older poor people), but there are plenty of great older scooters that are totally safe where I live. Shit all my friends drive them, they are old yes, but I have never heard of any of my freinds having an accident due to their scooters parts malfunctioning. It is almost always a driving mistake. Actually my little 50cc doesnt go very fast, it is 10 years old, it has disk brakes, and stops and runs like a champ. The shocks are solid, been rebuilt a couple of years ago. So why it is so unsafe. So I am not trying to argue with you, but I totally disagree. Anyway I am done with this topic, it is stupid, sorry to say!
[quote=“marboulette”]I’m saying that older scooters are generally not as safe.[/quote]Fair enough. Obviously Forumosans (at least the ones posting in this thread) are all very keen on keeping their vehicles in good order. But generally speaking, it’s fair to say that newer vehicles are in better condition and are more roadworthy than older ones.
Some people seem to be saying that poor brakes and tyres don’t make for a dangerous bike. Or am I reading that wrong? I know I feel a lot safer riding a bike in decent condition, and presumably there’s a reason other than just making money that most governments around the world impose some kind of roadworthiness standards on vehicles. But if someone can provide stats that suggest that unworthy vehicles aren’t a significant factor in many accidents in Taiwan, I may be more open to the other view: that roadworthiness of a vehicle plays little part in safety.
Until that time, though, I agree with this part of your original post if by “mechanically inclined”, you mean the surprisingly few people who actually care about keeping their scooter in reasonable condition, whether they do that themselves or pay someone else to do it for them.[quote]My advice is unless you are mechanically inclined, spend a bit more money and stay away from older scooters/bikes.[/quote]On the whole, it’s fair to say that new or nearly new vehicles here are in better, safer condition than older ones. So if somebody has very little knowledge of basic mechanical principles but still needs their own transport, then I’d suggest they get a new-ish vehicle.
[quote=“rk1951”]Actually my little 50cc doesnt go very fast, it is 10 years old, it has disk brakes, and stops and runs like a champ. The shocks are solid, been rebuilt a couple of years ago. So why it is so unsafe. So I am not trying to argue with you, but I totally disagree. Anyway I am done with this topic, it is stupid, sorry to say![/quote]Surely it would only count as “disagreement” if Marboulette had said your little 50cc was unsafe? I’m not sure why you think he did. I had a old Dio in excellent condition for a few years, but I did put a little bit of effort into keeping it that way. I made sure all the proper service stuff got done. I think Marboulette was talking about people who don’t even do that, whether because they don’t care or because they can’t find a decent mechanic or for some other reason. For those people, unless they’re quite lucky, it probably isn’t a great idea to buy an old vehicle.
[quote=“rk1951”]That is not true, why is a newer scooter that much safer than an older scooter that has been taken care of??? [/quote]A better question is why do you ask me this when I’m saying that scooters that have NOT been taken care of are less safe, and that people who know nothing about scooters won’t be able to tell the difference. Have you not seen the 50 things I did to the scooter I posted in the OP? Is that what you would call a scooter that has been taken care of? :s
marboulette
[quote=“joesax”][quote=“marboulette”]I’m saying that older scooters are generally not as safe.[/quote]Fair enough. Obviously Forumosans (at least the ones posting in this thread) are all very keen on keeping their vehicles in good order. But generally speaking, it’s fair to say that newer vehicles are in better condition and are more roadworthy than older ones.
Some people seem to be saying that poor brakes and tyres don’t make for a dangerous bike. Or am I reading that wrong? I know I feel a lot safer riding a bike in decent condition, and presumably there’s a reason other than just making money that most governments around the world impose some kind of roadworthiness standards on vehicles. But if someone can provide stats that suggest that unworthy vehicles aren’t a significant factor in many accidents in Taiwan, I may be more open to the other view: that roadworthiness of a vehicle plays little part in safety.
Until that time, though, I agree with this part of your original post if by “mechanically inclined”, you mean the surprisingly few people who actually care about keeping their scooter in reasonable condition, whether they do that themselves or pay someone else to do it for them.[quote]My advice is unless you are mechanically inclined, spend a bit more money and stay away from older scooters/bikes.[/quote]On the whole, it’s fair to say that new or nearly new vehicles here are in better, safer condition than older ones. So if somebody has very little knowledge of basic mechanical principles but still needs their own transport, then I’d suggest they get a new-ish vehicle.
Fair enough, thanks for putting it into more of a perspective. I was just using my 50cc as an older bike (I was never trying to say that he was saying that “my” 50cc was unsafe, I was just usuing it as an example). Obviously I am a huge motorcycle enthusiast. I love older vehicals. I personally have restored 4 cars, ranging in years from 1937-1972, so am a little biased about newer vehicals sometimes. I love them though, but sometimes people waste their money, when they don’t need too.
Like I said though, yes someone who is mechanically inclined might want to get a new scooter, but in Taiwan I still disagree. They are not going to be used to the road conditions, Taiwanese drivers, etc, and will probably get into an accident and ruin their 30Knt scooter. Start slow, try your best to find a decent 2nd hand scooter (and there are tons of them out there, yes and also some lemons, have someone go with you if you dont know what you are looking for or if you are mechanically inclined. Anyway, Im out of this one!!! :discodance:
Newer vehicles on the whole are safer than older vehicles. There are advancements made in engineering and use of materials all the time which over time cast a shadow on older technology. That being said not all new technology is as safe as older tried and trusted technology. An example of this was the technology found on my previous scooter which was a linked braking system through which the rear and front brakes were linked by cable so that the back brake would operate the front by about 30 percent and the other way round. This was a stupid idea for obvious reasons and I insisted I wanted the device (the linking cable) removed. Previous models did not share this device and subsequently later models neither did. Cockups are made in new vehicle design all the time, but are certainly not a majority of the time. I would certainly agree that overall there is no substitute for modern technology when it comes to enhancements in safety and overall integrity and build quality. There are older bikes which are more reliable than newer models, which may at times be safer, but again overall this isn’t the case.
On a personal note, I don’t believe its so much the bike that keeps riders safer as so much their level of common sense and skill. This isn’t irregardless of proper vehicle maintenance however. Every rider should know their own limits and which machine they are most comfortable with, whether it be old or new, slow or fast.
I’m just realizing actually how far and deep one could go with this subject of old versus new however, but as it isn’t a clearly defined argument, it may be impossible to draw a straight conclusion.
Let’s take a common example. There’s an old scooter with dud brakes, like so many old bikes here. It takes 50 metres to stop from a given speed. Then there’s a new scooter with reasonable brakes, like most new scooters. Not great but reasonable. Let’s say it stops in 20 metres from the same speed.
Is anyone seriously saying that, all other things being equal, the bike that takes longer to stop is as safe as the other one?
Not to say that the old bike couldn’t be got to perform as well as the new one, if someone could be bothered to spend the time or money and knew what to ask for (and of course knew that the brakes were dud in the first place). But just that without those conditions, it would probably be safer to ride the new bike.
No they aren’t. If they were, traffic statistics would show people getting killed because theiur brakes fail or whatever. They don’t. People don’t get killed because their bikes don’t work properly, they get killed because they drive like maniacs or because they get hit by other people driving like maniacs.
Paying for 50 hours of work for an old beater is madness and so is junking an old scooter just because its seen better days.[/quote]
Well traffic statistics don’t often include reasons of vehicle failure as yearly government testing doesn’t require suitability, performance, integrity or maintenance checks or tests other than vehicle emissions standards and vehicle originality requirements. This means that road going vehicles need not comply with any laid out standards regarding vehicle maintenance other than originality standards as there aren’t any. I have inquired with the traffic police before as to whether vehicles need to be inspected for fault after an accident in order to help ascertain cause or fault, but I only received a puzzled response which was almost disbelief that we in the developed world perform such investigations.
There are no requirements in Taiwan on motorcycles regarding, but not limited to: tyre tread depth,tyre type, braking performance,brake system condition, chassis condition, engine mountings, gearbox mountings, suspension condition and performance, fuel line condition, fuel tank condition, oil leakage etc.
Glad to see you chip in, sulavaca and joe. I was a bit weirded out with the response for a bit, but at last, common sense prevails.
I was going to say that earlier. Personally, I would not buy new. I prefer to buy a scooter once it is hit hard with depreciation, and besides, I have the ability to make the scooter run well, and I know what faults to look for in older scooters. But if you don’t know about scooters, bringing someone along who does when shopping for a second hand scooter will make all the difference in the world. In fact, I think it is a must. Short of that, and like I said, better off spending a bit more for something newer that, odds are, will most likely be much safer.
marboulette
[quote=“marboulette”]Glad to see you chip in, sulavaca and joe. I was a bit weirded out with the response for a bit, but at last, common sense prevails.
[/quote]
I had no trouble understanding your original post, just an opinion really.
For my own experience, I’ve owned a number of vehicles here and prefer the newer ones simply because I don’t have to constantly keep up on what is wrong or what is going to need fixing next. My current car, a Volkswagen that I bought new almost 8 years ago, is starting to show signs of age. I’ve maintained it well and the engine is sound, but there are always little things that are needing attention. Fortunately, the service center that I use is good about handling things for me; they keep thorough records of everything they do to the car and are very clear about explaining repairs and modifications. I do pay for it though! 
Good post, Marboulette, and great advice for anyone unfamiliar with basic scooter or motorcycle maintenance.
[edited a bit, I wasn’t entirely coherent when I first posted this]
I give the same advice to anyone who asks me about buying new wheels. That said, I also usually prefer to buy used bikes of whatever kind, because I know a bit about how to get them back into shape, and how to maintain them. But I’ve had friends who’ve bought decent, shitty old bikes, which wound up costing them tons of dough to keep running–not because the bikes were crap, but because they had no idea what was wrong, and were ripped off by the local mechanics. They’d have been better off buying new bikes.
[quote=“Jeeves_Cripes”]Good post, Marboulette, and great advice for anyone unfamiliar with basic scooter or motorcycle maintenance.
[edited a bit, I wasn’t entirely coherent when I first posted this]
I give the same advice to anyone who asks me about buying new wheels. That said, I also usually prefer to buy used bikes of whatever kind, because I know a bit about how to get them back into shape, and how to maintain them. But I’ve had friends who’ve bought decent, shitty old bikes, which wound up costing them tons of dough to keep running–not because the bikes were crap, but because they had no idea what was wrong, and were ripped off by the local mechanics. They’d have been better off buying new bikes.[/quote]
Tanks, JC.
I could not agree more. Two other co-teachers who work at the same schools as the guy who owns the little scooter I just fixed came to me this week and asked me to have a look at their scooters because their mechanics are less than useful. In other words, they think that they may be taken for a ride, and at least one of them is. The one guy rides majesty, and he was told by the all famous Truman that he needs a new carburetor. A carb for a majesty will cost you over 5k. That’s pretty disappointing since all that is wrong with this guy’s majesty is the ignition coil and that only costs about NT$300.
Everyone raves about this Truman guy. The south-dwellers probably heard about him or know him. The only good thing about Truman is he can speak English, but he’s not a competent mechanic. I might get criticized for saying that, but I speak no evil. It’s been more than a few times now that I fix scooters that Truman couldn’t fix or quoted too much to replace something that did not need replaced. He charged someone I know NT$4000 for opening up the lower engine and another NT$2600 for a new CDI in an effort to solve stuttering at take off. More than 6k later, the bike was still stuttering and Truman explained that the bike was too old. Could he not have said that BEFORE he charged 6k to fix the bike? :loco: Anyways, the bike ended up in my hands and I diagnosed the bike with a faulty/worn out transmission. I replaced the front pulley and weight bearings and the problem was solved for NT$800. I got a NT$500 tip for that job because the guy who owns the bike went from thinking his bike was too old, to having a bike that ran well all of a sudden.
This said, I agree, there are some good mechanics around, but they are few and far apart. I’ve been here for 6 years, and I only know two mechanics who I would allow to work on my scooter in my absence. I wouldn’t let most mechanics go near my scooter with a ten foot pole if I’m not there to watch them.
It can be very difficult for foreigners who A- don’t speak Chinese, and B- don’t know about mechanic, to keep their scooters well maintained, safe, and in good working condition. So yeah, these people would be better off spending a bit more for a newer bike to avoid the risk and the headaches.
marboulette
I’ve never heard of Truman, but I dig what you’re saying–his brothers are holed-up in little shops all over Taiwan. And all over the world, for that matter–this planet is teeming with Truman’s family.
Anyway, I reckon that the major problem for the owner of any dodgy vehicle, of any kind, anywhere, is this–My ride don’t work like it oughta. Why don’t it work like it oughta? Who can I pay to make it work like it oughta?
What anyone wants out of his (or her) ride is for it to do what it’s supposed to do, without killing him on the way. A brand-new ride will mostly do that, for quite a while. An older ride mostly might do that, maybe, and it might do it for quite a long while, depending on maintenance, luck, weather, and whatever other factors may apply.
For those new to Taiwan, who’ve only ever driven an old Honda Civic or Ford Granada, an 8-year-old Kymco scooter will be a mystery. Does it move forward? Check. Does it sort of stop? Check. Is it cheap? Check.
Whee! I’ve got wheels!
If those were my own personal wheels, I’d make them good wheels. But I’d hate to see some kid just out of Uni who’d never ridden more than a bus or a bicycle try to navigate a Taiwanese city on some old wreck of a scooter.
Sure that’s happened. Sure plenty of newbies have done well on shit-heaps. But I would never tell my clueless little brother to buy a shit-heap, here, when another 20K would get him a safer vehicle that he could safely ignore for a few years.
This kid will very likely soon turn a brand new scooter that is probably WAY out of his budget into exactly the wreck you speak of.
I think he is better off with a scooter that can’t achieve a high speed and is wobbly enough NOT to inspire him to take any chances until he first learns about surviving the traffic from the back of the race pack that belts off after every traffic light change.
This kid will very likely soon turn a brand new scooter that is probably WAY out of his budget into exactly the wreck you speak of.
I think he is better off with a scooter that can’t achieve a high speed and is wobbly enough NOT to inspire him to take any chances until he first learns about surviving the traffic from the back of the race pack that belts off after every traffic light change.[/quote]
Me thinks he was speaking of a foreign kid just out of Uni over here as a language teacher for the first time. 
[quote=“Dogma”]I think he is better off with a scooter that can’t achieve a high speed and is wobbly enough NOT to inspire him to take any chances until he first learns about surviving the traffic from the back of the race pack that belts off after every traffic light change.[/quote]A 50cc will do at least 70km/hr. The one I just fixed up is closing in at 90km/hr. That’s fast enough to kill yourself or fuck yourself up for life.
In fact, only 30km/hr is fast enough to mess yourself up pretty good, and if you’re riding a wobbling piece of shit, the chances of that happening are much higher. The only thing you’re going to learn on a scooter like that is how much an ambulance ride is worth.
Sure you lose more money if you crash a more expensive scooter, but I would recommend taking a chance to lose money over losing a limb anytime. You realize what you’re saying, right? "Buy the biggest piece of junk you can find so that you’ll be afraid to go too fast on it. That’s fucked up, man. 
marboulette
Well if you are going to be a tit and wring the top speed out of the piece of shit then you deserve the lesson you learn mate.
In reality you will feel to terrified of the thing to wring its neck rather than getting on a brand new piece of machinery that will hit its top end with haste, making you feel confident that its all good until you meet a nasty end.
Those of us who know a thing or two of bikes learned from riding clapped out bangers.
The lessons to be learned from these are invaluable.
Its ridiculous to say otherwise. 
Incidentally I didn’t say that …you did