Are you sure you want to buy a second hand scooter?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

I pose this question because I just finished rebuilding an older scooter. The scooter was pretty much in a similar condition to that of most older scooters on the road. Just tons of little problems and broken bits, but it still starts and gets you around. But it’s dirty, loose, noisy, smoky and dangerous.

My advice is unless you are mechanically inclined, spend a bit more money and stay away from older scooters/bikes.

Here’s the summary of repairs and maintenance I wrote for the owner of the scooter I just rebuilt. The scooter is a Yamaha Jog 50cc.

[quote]1- Refurbished seat hinge ~ remove rust and repaint.

2- Fixed seat hinge ~ added a metal brace to replace broken plastic.

3- Greased seat lock and fixed bent lock cover.

4- Tightened headset- It was incredibly loose and the bearings were about to fall out.

5- Straightened kick starter- It was bend from a previous crash.

6- Refurbished the kick starter internal spring loaded mechanism- It was almost seized.

7- Removed rust and repainted many metal parts- Side stand, kick starter, double stand, master cylinder, etc, etc.

8- Installed overflow line on carburetor- It was missing

9- Cleaned and greased front brake master cylinder. After cleaning it, it was obvious that the cylinder was leaking brake oil. Cleaning the build up made it leak even more.

10- Got a second hand genuine Yamaha master cylinder from the scrap yard and installed it to replace the leaking cylinder. NT$200

12- Cleaned and repainted the second hand master cylinder.

13- Cleaned, repainted and greased the rear brake lever mechanism.

14- Replaced tail light switch on the rear brake lever. The tail light was not working when applying the rear brake- The switch was seized. Got the switch from the scrap yard for free.

15- Straightened both brake levers and removed the paid off them to give them a nice cast iron color instead of chipping black paint color. They were both bent from previous accidents. The right one more so than the left one.

16- Lubricated rear brake cable. I used a funnel and attached it to the end of the cable and I let some oil run down the sleeve for 24 hrs. The rear brake cable was very stiff and now it’s like a new one.

17- Refurbished all plastic parts with a special cleaner, and for the non painted plastic parts, I used heat to melt the surface slightly. This brings out the original color and shine in the plastic, and it fixes a majority of minor scratches

18- Did many plastic repairs using rivets and machined aluminum

19- Fixed headlight housing so that it can be installed properly. A previous accident broke the housing attachments. I fabricated attachments with rivets, screws and aluminum. These repairs can not be seen once the bike is put back together other than it’s obvious that the headlight is now firmly attached

20- Bought a new flasher (signal light) plastic cover, front left. NT$80

21- Adjusted the horn, and installed a second horn for fun. Got the horn from a scrap yard for free.

22- Painted a few plastic parts that were beyond just cleaning after I used melted plastic to fix cracks and damages.

23- Installed a tail light- It was missing. NT$50

24- Replaced tail light cover with a second hand one from the scrap yard. It was broken. Got the replacement one for free at the scrap yard.

25- Cleaned cooling fan and alternator.

26- Fixed undercarriage rear brake liner. The rear brake reqhires being attached to a bracket to keep it in place, but the bracket comes with the double stand which was missing altogether. So the rear brake cable had started to rub through the plastic undercarriage.

27- Installed a double stand and a brake cable bracket. Second hand from the scrap yard: NT$50

28- Refurbished and greased rear brake internal mechanism. It was almost seized.

29- Refurbished the rear brake adjustment bolt/ cable end. It was seized and a previous mechanic had bent the spring when trying to adjust the rear brake. I also unbent the spring before re-installing the cable.

30- Refurbished battery cover

31- Greased swing arm. It was bone dry.

32- Removed an inch off the ignition lead and re installed spark plug cap properly.

34- Upon inspecting the transmission, I found a blown bearing on the main shaft and it had a slight internal oil leak. The oil would eventually end up on the belt and pulleys, and the bike would not move forward because the belt would just slip. I don’t have the puller to remove the old bearing so I took the engine/transmission block to a mechanic and had the bearings replaced. NT$600 (two bearings- internal and external and transmission oil change)

35- The rear tire was dangerously flat, and it has a very slight leak around the valve stem. You can’t replace the stem without removing the tire so I replaced the valve and installed a new tire. NT$700

36- Refurbished and repainted transmission cover

37- Refurbished the outside of the engine block and transmission housing.

38- Fabricated bracket for signal light tooter. It was missing.

39- Cleaned and fine tuned the carburetor.

40- Replaced transmission weight rollers

41- Dismantled, cleaned and greased the rear pulley assembly/automatic clutch. The clutch was still squealing after that, so I replaced the friction pads assembly with an old one I had. (It’s the same on my scooter) If you were to replace the rear pulley assembly, it would improve performance at take off (it’s quite worn out), but for a 50cc, I think it’s good enough the way it is and it will not affect the bike’s reliability.

42- Aligned handlebars- They were bent to the left due to a previous accident. I took the handlebars to a machine shop and we used an acetylene torch t heat up the handlebars in order to straighten them. The machinist did not charge me anything, it took 2 minutes.

43- Installed a kill switch for fun- Anti theft switch.

44- Cleaned air filter.

45- Fixed a massive oil leak around the oil gauge on the oil container. This leak had oil on EVERYTHING!

46- Cleaned oil leak off of alternator cover, transmission cover, air filter housing, and all around the engine block and under carriage. It was a complete mess.

47- Refurbished the oil pump spring loaded mechanism, and adjusted oil flow. The mechanic who oversized the engine did two things wrong. 1- The piston sleeve was too tight around the piston an it created too much friction. 2- To compensate, the mechanic increased the oil flow which resulted in constant smoke coming out of the exhaust when the engine was warm and quite a bit of smoke when the engine was hot/overheating due to too much friction between the piston and the piston sleeve.

48- I took the piston and sleeve to a machinist and explained the problem. He bored out the sleeve just tiny bit more, and we installed new piston rings. The compression is still a bit high as I had to reduce the amount of air going in from the carburetor, but this will get better over time, and it’s good enough now. The scooter doesn’t smoke anymore. Even if you beat the crap out of it the engine will not overheat, and that’s after reducing the oil flow, too. The machinist charged me NT$200.

49- Replaced oil line from the oil container to the oil pump.

50- Removed rust and chipping pant from the wheels and repainted the wheels black.

51- Upon trying to refurbish the front forks, it became very clear that the forks were beyond repair. The left fork was bone dry and it was actually seized. It had about one inch of travel. I bought second hand front forks in good condition from a Yamaha mechanic I know well and I installed them. The forks are ¾ inch shorter than the original ones, but they are compatible and you can’t tell the difference. Second hand forks NT$600.

52- Refurbished front brake caliper. The caliper has been replaced not that long ago because it’s like new. Both front and rear brake pads are in good condition with lots of life left.

53- Refurbished and repainted front disk (brake disk)

54- Once the bike was put back together, I rode it quite a bit to make sure everything is in good working order. I put in about 300km on your scooter, and to my knowledge, there is not one single repair or maintenance required on this scooter as of now.

55- Did some white paint touch ups.

So that’s it. The bike is ready. The total cost is NT$2,480. The main expenses are the front forks, the transmission and the rear tire which was something you had to replace very soon anyways. The tire is more a maintenance item than a repair. Without the tire, the total cost of repairs is NT$1, 780.

You don’t know much about scooter mechanic, but I can show you most of the repairs. The following is what you will notice when riding the scooter:

The scooter will feel a lot stiffer (no rattles and miscellaneous noises), yet much smoother when hitting bumps. It is quieter when hitting bumps because all loose parts were fixed. You will find that the scooter accelerates much faster due to the work I did on your clutch and because I replaced the transmission weight rollers. The bike leans around corners a lot better now because the headset was so loose that it affected the handling dramatically, not to mention that the front forks were shot.

You will notice that the bike brakes about twice better now. Your rear brake in dear need of maintenance, and your front brake cylinder was shot and leaking. You will also notice that all lights are now working properly, the headlight is now properly adjusted for optimum night riding visibility and the horn is louder. Hehe.

You will also notice that there is no more smoke coming out of the exhaust.

In other words, what you have now is an older scooter that is accelerating, braking, and handling just like a brand new scooter; just like it did when it came off the assembly line many years ago. The scooter is now much safer to ride, especially during emergency breaking and cornering. If you choose to sell the scooter, it is now worth, in my opinion, no less than NT$10,000, which is more than twice what you paid for it.

Enjoy![/quote]

marboulette

2

I hate getting my hands oily. But I’ve had many years of reliable service from second-hand motorbikes and scooters here. If you were to say “Don’t buy a heap of crap just because it’s cheap,” then I’d agree. But if you get something that’s in reasonable condition, and spend a little bit more on getting it running really nicely, you get a decent vehicle for a fair bit less than the cost of a new one.

3

I would have to agree with Joesax, nothing wrong with a second hand scooter even if you know nothing about mechanics. My 50cc (that I have had for 4 years) has never given me any problems, it only started to give me more problems after I modified it last year (I knew that it would though). I bought it for $3,000nt, and just did tranny fluid changes, new brakes, a few touch-up paint jobs, a new pulley belt once, and every now and then I would have to tighten up some screws. It was the perfect scooter, not very fast, but old, cheap, and reliable.

Also my roommates 125cc Yamaha Fuzzy, bought from a shop for $6,000nt has been running strong since he got it over a year ago. It is a champ; the only thing he does is oil changes every 1,000km, tries and brakes when they go.

If you are planning on staying or living in Taiwan for awhile, I would agree then get a new scooter. If you are not then buy a reasonable cheap second hand scoot. Hopefully you won’t get a lemon. Use your own common sense when buying it.

You have over 50 repairs done to this scooter of yours, is this from wear and tear from over the years? I would hope so, plus I noticed it was in an accident, well if someone gets into an accident on a newer scooter than your argument is garbage because a newer scooter won’t be very reliable after a good accident, plus some of the parts on a newer scooter will be more expensive especially the fairings.

So it just depends what you are looking for. There are so many good buys around town from an older second hand that will last for years if you keep up with the proper maintenance.

4

[quote=“rk1951”]I would have to agree with Joesax, nothing wrong with a second hand scooter even if you know nothing about mechanics. My 50cc (that I have had for 4 years) has never given me any problems, it only started to give me more problems after I modified it last year (I knew that it would though). I bought it for $3,000nt, and just did tranny fluid changes, new brakes, a few touch-up paint jobs, a new pulley belt once, and every now and then I would have to tighten up some screws. It was the perfect scooter, not very fast, but old, cheap, and reliable.

Also my roommates 125cc Yamaha Fuzzy, bought from a shop for $6,000nt has been running strong since he got it over a year ago. It is a champ; the only thing he does is oil changes every 1,000km, tries and brakes when they go.[/quote]That’s it. You can get a reliable second-hand vehicle for a good price if you’re sensible.

Still, I suppose that whether someone’s buying new or second-hand, it does help to have a little bit of mechanical knowledge. To know what dud tyres look like and what good brakes feel like. To know that oil needs changed more than once in a blue moon, and that transmission fluid is needed from time to time. What concerns me is the number of people who ride about on unroadworthy vehicles. Perhaps that’s what Marboulette was getting at.

5

The guy who owns the scooter I just rebuilt gave me green card to fix anything that was broken. I asked him what was broken, and he told me that everything was fine except it was smoking out of the exhaust, and the speedometer didn’t work. At least that’s two out of about 50 things he actually knew about.

[quote=“rk”]You have over 50 repairs done to this scooter of yours, is this from wear and tear from over the years?[/quote]Pretty much, and from falling over a couple times over the years as most scooters do, here.

[quote=“rk”]There are so many good buys around town from an older second hand that will last for years if you keep up with the proper maintenance.[/quote]Yes, and there are also a lot of bikes in complete disrepair whose owners think there’s nothing wrong with them.

[quote=“joesax”]What concerns me is the number of people who ride about on unroadworthy vehicles. Perhaps that’s what Marboulette was getting at.[/quote]Yes, and these scooters end up being sold to people who don’t know better. Put it this way, 90% of older scooters could probably use at least 20 of the 50 things listed above, if not all of the above. They’re falling apart, but the catch is that they still start, they go, and they brake.

marboulette

6

I am just looking at my 50cc to yours, when I bought it 4 years ago it was old, but ran great. All it needed was a little scrub and new brakes. Actually it has been the best thing I have ever bought in my entire life (as how cheap and reliable it is.)

Anyway you still have not proved your point. Buying a second hand scooter is great, and or buying new scooter is great. But don’t try to tell people that second hand scooters are probably be a “bad buy” anyone with any common sense knows that it is second hand. Also a new scooter could also become a nightmare, just because it is new doesn’t mean it is perfect.

What I think is that if you are new off the boat you should get a second hand scooter that may suck, whatever. Besides you might learn a few things about it. Plus the traffic and driving conditions are shit here, and most foreigners aren’t that great on two wheels. The chances of getting into an accident, crashing on your own, or getting your scooter towed/knocked over is inevitable. So buy a second hand until you understand more about the scooter, Taiwanese driving, and the road conditions. When you feel more comfortable then step it up and buy something better or more reliable.

7

[quote=“rk1951”]Anyway you still have not proved your point.[/quote]I have nothing to prove. It’s just my opinion.

marboulette

8

IMO the total cost to rehabilitate the OP’s scoot is more than the FMV of the scoot if labor is added. I don’t think labor is included in the stated totals, is it? My total of the parts costs cumulates to the “total cost”.

9

[quote=“maunaloa”]IMO the total cost to rehabilitate the OP’s scoot is more than the FMV of the scoot if labor is added. I don’t think labor is included in the stated totals, is it? My total of the parts costs cumulates to the “total cost”.[/quote]That’s correct. I’m not charging the fellow for the labor because if I did, it would indeed be more than the scooter’s value. Like twice more for labor alone. Heck, it took me nearly two whole days just to remove oil build up. We’re talking 1/2 inch thick of oil build up in some places(maybe I’ll post pics later). Things like removing rust and paint from the wheels and repainting them takes a long time, too. Like 3-4 hours for one wheel. Repairing 9 years old plastic is quite finicky, too, because over the years the plastic becomes very brittle.

I spend about 50 hours working on that scooter over a period of a month. I did this for fun and to help a helpless and clueless scooter owner/co-worker. I’ve done this a bunch of times since I came to Taiwan. This is the second Jog I rebuild. I rebuilt another one a couple years ago for a Chinese teacher at my school. Recently, I rebuilt a Fuzzy for a friend and before that, I rebuilt a NSR for myself, and a RZR for another friend of mine. I also helped trapjaw fix up his RZR a couple years ago. And then there are countless other repairs and partial rebuild I did on bikes in the last few years.

The point is, I guess, is I’ve been working with old beaters for years now, and I can guarantee you that
ALL
of them are in pretty serious disrepair, but like I said, they still run so most people think they are OK to ride, to sell, and to buy. The way a vast majority of mechanic work in Taiwan, and given the hot and rainy climate here, any and all scooters end up in very poor condition by the time they reach 6-7 years old. And when you start looking at bikes that are 9-10 years old like the scooter I fixed up above, you’re looking at scooters that are not even roadworthy. But you can buy them, register them, insure them, and ride them. They are nothing more than death traps for the average oblivious scooter commuter.

marboulette

10

No they aren’t. If they were, traffic statistics would show people getting killed because theiur brakes fail or whatever. They don’t. People don’t get killed because their bikes don’t work properly, they get killed because they drive like maniacs or because they get hit by other people driving like maniacs.
Paying for 50 hours of work for an old beater is madness and so is junking an old scooter just because its seen better days.

11

My own experience differs. Two and half years ago I bought a nine year old 125cc scooter that had been fully reconditioned. I don’t cover a huge amount of miles, but it has been very reliable. I get the oil changed every 1,000 kms. The only mechanical problem has been the speedometer cable which for some strange reason has broken twice.

I am not an expert on these matters, but wouldn’t a 50cc scooter be more likely to break than a 125cc? It is smaller and has greater stress on the engine and frame.

12

No they aren’t. If they were, traffic statistics would show people getting killed because theiur brakes fail or whatever. They don’t. People don’t get killed because their bikes don’t work properly, they get killed because they drive like maniacs or because they get hit by other people driving like maniacs.
Paying for 50 hours of work for an old beater is madness and so is junking an old scooter just because its seen better days.[/quote]

well put Sandman :thumbsup:

13

No they aren’t. If they were, traffic statistics would show people getting killed because theiur brakes fail or whatever. They don’t. People don’t get killed because their bikes don’t work properly, they get killed because they drive like maniacs or because they get hit by other people driving like maniacs.
Paying for 50 hours of work for an old beater is madness and so is junking an old scooter just because its seen better days.[/quote]

I think it was clear that I meant they are dangerous to ride as in NOT roadworthy. No need to read things so literally, there, sandman. And yes, people do crash because their bikes are in disrepair. One of the most gruesome crash I’ve seen here is when an old lady went over the handlebars because the speedometer cable was missing a bracket to keep it from touching the wheel. The cable went over the front tire but it was too short to go all around the tire so it seized the front wheel as she was going about 50km/hr. Have you ever tried slamming on the brakes to save your life on a scooter with bent handlebars or a fucked front end? It’s very hard to keep the bike straight up. It’ll just buckle on you and down you go. Yes, people ride like idiots, and that is one more reason why having a safe ride will help you stay out of harm’s way.

Anyways, you want to tell people that it’s OK to buy old second hand scooters when they know nothing about them, be my guest. I did not start this thread to argue with anyone about something that is as common sense as can be.

Fully reconditioned speaks for itself for the old 9 years old scooter. I would vouch for the above scooter to be a safe and reliable little commuter now that it’s been fully reconditioned, too. I can’t say the same thing for the scooter before it was reconditioned, though. It was just a disaster waiting to happen.

marboulette

14

No they aren’t. If they were, traffic statistics would show people getting killed because theiur brakes fail or whatever. They don’t. People don’t get killed because their bikes don’t work properly, they get killed because they drive like maniacs or because they get hit by other people driving like maniacs.
Paying for 50 hours of work for an old beater is madness and so is junking an old scooter just because its seen better days.[/quote]
Maybe the statistics don’t show people getting killed becuase of faulty brakes as the brakes aren’t tested so much in emergency situations. No need to hit the brakes when hitting a red light, they just accelerate through it and then if they do hit someone, we don’t know if their brakes were faulty as even with good brakes there would probably be no way they could have avoided the asshole that ran the red light. So we could have two fatalities on two junkers with bad brakes, but the cause of death would be recklessness from riding through the red light…

15

Yes I am sure thanx. If it runs its fine I ride it, if something breaks i’ll get it repaired. Everything is cheap.

The crappier it looks the better, no one wants to steal it and I don’t care when my fellow scooter drivers drop their bikes on it or topple it in busy downtown sardine can parking lots.

It’s just a scooter not a classic Jaguar.

But that’s just my opinion.

16

But I have to say, if I had a workshop like Marboulette’s and the knowhow to use the tools, I wouldn’t think twice about spending 50 hours playing around with a bit of complete crap just for the pleasure of making it good again. I wouldn’t PAY for such work, though!

17

[quote=“Dogma”]Yes I am sure thanx. If it runs its fine I ride it, if something breaks I’ll get it repaired. [/quote]Yep, waiting for something to break before you do anything about it. It takes a toll on a scooter over a decade.

[quote]It’s just a scooter not a classic Jaguar. [/quote]Yeah, but it can go 90km/hr. That’s not exactly a skateboard, either. You can kill yourself on a scooter.

[quote] I wouldn’t PAY for such work, though![/quote] Makes sense. It would cost way too much. That’s why no one does. Just fix it when it doesn’t “run” anymore. :hand:

Not the kind of scooter I’d want to buy… That’s for sure.

marboulette

18

[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dogma”]Yes I am sure thanx. If it runs its fine I ride it, if something breaks I’ll get it repaired. [/quote]Yep, waiting for something to break before you do anything about it. It takes a toll on a scooter over a decade.

[quote]It’s just a scooter not a classic Jaguar. [/quote]Yeah, but it can go 90km/hr. That’s not exactly a skateboard, either. You can kill yourself on a scooter.

[quote] I wouldn’t PAY for such work, though![/quote] Makes sense. It would cost way too much. That’s why no one does. Just fix it when it doesn’t “run” anymore. :hand:

Not the kind of scooter I’d want to buy… That’s for sure.

marboulette[/quote]

What are you talking about now, Yeah I am going to fix something before it breaks. Oh looks like my brake pads are halfway done, better get new ones. Oh yeah my fairing are a bit cracked, I better buy a new one so it doesnt fall off and cause an accident.
What kind of scooter do you want to buy, a brand new one that never breaks. It sounds like it. I hope you find it, and when you do please tell me where you got it.

Oh I got to go, I’m going to go replace my 1 year old mastercylinder with a brand new one because it has some chipped paint and 1 rusty screw…cheers!!! :blah: Oh this is just my opinion!!!

19

marboulette, I admire your attention to detail and concern for safety. It must be hard for you to live in the land of Cha Bu Duo.

20

The man has an industrial compressor and a set of air tools. He don’t need your sympathy. He needs your old broke aircon.