Doesn’t take a scholar, Asian American or a white female to figure out these people are plentiful over here. And if you think people speaking about this topic in general is somehow commenting directly on your personal relationship that’s your own insecurities. I don’t recall anybody saying ever white male with an Asian SO is a creepy asianphile.
I don’t know how plentiful they are, but, I’ve certainly never denied that they do exist.
Well, I’m not complaining out of a sense of insecurity. It is annoying to have some people pass uninformed judgement on me, just as it is likely annoying to some Asian women to have some white males stereotype them.
My main point is simply that I don’t really understand how anyone liking anyone is such a creepy problem, even if his/her reason for liking the other is a stereotype, when that stereotype is wrong (as all stereotypes applied to individuals are). I mean, how much of a real problem is this? In the vast majority of instances where some white guy has a fetish for Asian women, I expect that a simple explanation from the Asian woman that she is not interested would suffice to end the “problem”. If the guy continues stalking her, then the problem is real and is not necessarily linked to his “fetish”… rather the guy has some behavioral problems. Otherwise, the poor guy discovers that the Asian woman doesn’t fit the stereotype he holds. Or, the Asian woman does fit his stereotype and the two hit it off splendidly and live their lives together in stereotypical bliss. In that case, whose business is it to criticize?
And yet, some are actually studying this matter as though it is the civil rights problem of our era. I just don’t see the problem as being worthy of serious study and scholarship. There are all sorts of injustices out there in the real world… being “hit on” by some poor white guy who has a fetish for Asian women doesn’t seem, IMO, to be all that serious an injustice to warrant the amount of rage and angst that it seems to create among certain individuals and groups.
Or, maybe I’m just a narrow-minded old fart?
is there a correlation between balding with a beer belly and Asian fetishes or sex tourism ?
or is it a stereotype ? After all skinny guys with lots of hair don’t do that in China do they ?
Perhaps the sex tourists should go on a diet because without their beer bellies, they would be in disguise. With a wig of course.
ROFLMAO
this thread is great!
All said in great humor of course :raspberry:
What about if they speak with a german accent and have lots of money is that a clue ?
Christ, I really hate wading into a discussion that has taken up too many pixels already, but I would hate for “bhlhuijia” or “Chiquita” or whatever her name to be the only Asian female voice in this discussion. As a Asian woman who is married to a white American man, I feel much more oppressed and indeed offended by the “yellow fever/白血病” assumptions widely held in both mainstream American and Taiwanese cultures about white male/asian female couplings than I am by Asian fetishism, such as it is.
I don’t deny that many men have unhealthy fixations on Asians based on their own twisted idea of race. But there are a whole bunch of creepy guys out there who are creepy for a galaxy of off-putting reasons. I don’t think it’s sane to be much bothered by them. The reason why I’m bothered articles such as the vile and hysterical “color q” article that started off this ginormous thread off is that it is, in many ways, a mainstream opinion: people can have preferences for tall guys, blond guys, busty girls…whatever. But the moment that preference (or percieved preference) crosses the racial line, it becomes a fetish all of a sudden. Or as the colorq article not-so-opaquely put it, if you date out of your race, there must be something wrong with you.
That’s why me and Tigerman and others in mixed race relationships are so ‘sensitive’ about the matter, because when people make assumptions about asian/white relationships based on twisted stereoypes dripping with condescension such as “yellow fever/eats rice” we are in the fucking crosshairs. And don’t say we’re taking this too personally. To paraphrase buttercup, I’ve got no patience for “XXXX are always YYY. Oh, but I don’t mean you.”
As for Bulhuijia, her stance reminds me strongly of this article by Vicky Chang in the Village Voice, (http://villagevoice.com/news/0646,chang,74988,2.html) which raised alot of the same bullshit arguments (including colonialism, natch). It really makes me wonder whether there is anything they are putting into the water in California that are making people nuts. We’re told that Asian fetishists are shallow, ignorant men who know nothing about Asian culture except what they learned by watching “The world of Suzy Wong” (how old is that film anyhow?) But then we’re also told that people who take Asian languages too seriously as prime suspects for being asian fetishists if they date asians. We are even told that people who have married asian women and had families and perhaps lived in Asia for most of their lives might be a fetishist, especially if they defend themselves too vigorously. After all, what do they have to hide, right?
What this betrays is a fundamental discomfort with miscengenation in society, even today, and perhaps a shred of self-hatred on the part of asian women who assume that any white guy who like them must be one of those hated asian fetishists.
More thoughts on this here:
http://battlepanda.blogspot.com/2005/04/nordic-fetishists-prefer-blondes.html
“Shedload” is the word I think you were looking for there. Such insecurity! Such self-loathing! So funny to watch! Keep it up lady – oops, I mean “ladies.”
The funniest thing of all is that they – I mean she – fails to realize that of course ALL men are abnormal and abhorrent.
I mean, there have been countless articles and papers published on the terrible state of the education system these days and what a failure it is to our young people, but still, it comes as a shock when it hits you just HOW badly its failing these young people, some of whom, you know, could actually prove to be quite bright if only they were given the chance.
Battlepanda, it feels wonderful to read your mature post after all this bickering we’ve been doing here. I hope it serves us all as an example. Whether we agree with you or not.
[quote=“Battlepanda”]Christ, I really hate wading into a discussion that has taken up too many pixels already, but I would hate for “bhlhuijia” or “Chiquita” or whatever her name to be the only Asian female voice in this discussion. As a Asian woman who is married to a white American man, I feel much more oppressed and indeed offended by the “yellow fever/白血病” assumptions widely held in both mainstream American and Taiwanese cultures about white male/asian female couplings than I am by Asian fetishism, such as it is.
I don’t deny that many men have unhealthy fixations on Asians based on their own twisted idea of race. But there are a whole bunch of creepy guys out there who are creepy for a galaxy of off-putting reasons. I don’t think it’s sane to be much bothered by them. The reason why I’m bothered articles such as the vile and hysterical “color q” article that started off this ginormous thread off is that it is, in many ways, a mainstream opinion: people can have preferences for tall guys, blond guys, busty girls…whatever. But the moment that preference (or percieved preference) crosses the racial line, it becomes a fetish all of a sudden. Or as the colorq article not-so-opaquely put it, if you date out of your race, there must be something wrong with you.
That’s why me and Tigerman and others in mixed race relationships are so ‘sensitive’ about the matter, because when people make assumptions about asian/white relationships based on twisted stereoypes dripping with condescension such as “yellow fever/eats rice” we are in the fucking crosshairs. And don’t say we’re taking this too personally. To paraphrase buttercup, I’ve got no patience for “XXXX are always YYY. Oh, but I don’t mean you.”
As for Bulhuijia, her stance reminds me strongly of this article by Vicky Chang in the Village Voice, (http://villagevoice.com/news/0646,chang,74988,2.html) which raised alot of the same bullshit arguments (including colonialism, natch). It really makes me wonder whether there is anything they are putting into the water in California that are making people nuts. We’re told that Asian fetishists are shallow, ignorant men who know nothing about Asian culture except what they learned by watching “The world of Suzy Wong” (how old is that film anyhow?) But then we’re also told that people who take Asian languages too seriously as prime suspects for being asian fetishists if they date asians. We are even told that people who have married asian women and had families and perhaps lived in Asia for most of their lives might be a fetishist, especially if they defend themselves too vigorously. After all, what do they have to hide, right?
What this betrays is a fundamental discomfort with miscengenation in society, even today, and perhaps a shred of self-hatred on the part of asian women who assume that any white guy who like them must be one of those hated asian fetishists.
More thoughts on this here:
http://battlepanda.blogspot.com/2005/04/nordic-fetishists-prefer-blondes.html[/quote]
No. Thanks for that. :bravo:
Interesting post, battlepanda.
Battlepanda… the main problem with most of the arguments held by the side that states it isn’t a fetish, is that instead of saying “a great deal and possibly a majority are like this, but let’s not forget those who are not” they tend to seemingly argue that the fetish is not a fetish at all. Which makes the whole argument flawed and thus no one listens. If you want people to listen that it isn’t everyone’s way, you must first admit that it is an issue for some.
it is just like racism. You can say “Yes, racism is a problem in the US. But I am not so closed minded” and peopel might listen. but when you say “racism hasn’t been a problem in the US since the 80s”, no one listens to anything else you say…
[quote=“Battlepanda”]Christ, I really hate wading into a discussion that has taken up too many pixels already, but I would hate for “bhlhuijia” or “Chiquita” or whatever her name to be the only Asian female voice in this discussion. As a Asian woman who is married to a white American man, I feel much more oppressed and indeed offended by the “yellow fever/白血病” assumptions widely held in both mainstream American and Taiwanese cultures about white male/asian female couplings than I am by Asian fetishism, such as it is.
I don’t deny that many men have unhealthy fixations on Asians based on their own twisted idea of race. But there are a whole bunch of creepy guys out there who are creepy for a galaxy of off-putting reasons. I don’t think it’s sane to be much bothered by them. The reason why I’m bothered articles such as the vile and hysterical “color q” article that started off this ginormous thread off is that it is, in many ways, a mainstream opinion: people can have preferences for tall guys, blond guys, busty girls…whatever. But the moment that preference (or percieved preference) crosses the racial line, it becomes a fetish all of a sudden. Or as the colorq article not-so-opaquely put it, if you date out of your race, there must be something wrong with you.
That’s why me and Tigerman and others in mixed race relationships are so ‘sensitive’ about the matter, because when people make assumptions about asian/white relationships based on twisted stereoypes dripping with condescension such as “yellow fever/eats rice” we are in the fucking crosshairs. And don’t say we’re taking this too personally. To paraphrase buttercup, I’ve got no patience for “XXXX are always YYY. Oh, but I don’t mean you.”
As for Bulhuijia, her stance reminds me strongly of this article by Vicky Chang in the Village Voice, (http://villagevoice.com/news/0646,chang,74988,2.html) which raised alot of the same bullshit arguments (including colonialism, natch). It really makes me wonder whether there is anything they are putting into the water in California that are making people nuts. We’re told that Asian fetishists are shallow, ignorant men who know nothing about Asian culture except what they learned by watching “The world of Suzy Wong” (how old is that film anyhow?) But then we’re also told that people who take Asian languages too seriously as prime suspects for being asian fetishists if they date asians. We are even told that people who have married asian women and had families and perhaps lived in Asia for most of their lives might be a fetishist, especially if they defend themselves too vigorously. After all, what do they have to hide, right?
What this betrays is a fundamental discomfort with miscengenation in society, even today, and perhaps a shred of self-hatred on the part of asian women who assume that any white guy who like them must be one of those hated asian fetishists.
More thoughts on this here:
http://battlepanda.blogspot.com/2005/04/nordic-fetishists-prefer-blondes.html[/quote]
Great post, BP. Nice blog, too. Why isn’t this your avatar?
I think it’s cool.
Battlepanda wrote the following:
Very early on in this discussion I posted the following:
I’ve also stated that stereotypes and acting on stereotypes are generally bad.
sorry bhlhuijia, i should have shown myself earlier. but i was banned.
just wanted to clear up the accusations that anyone was using double identities to create “support” - to the extent that posting in good faith counts for anything here. however, michangel certainly was the first account i used to post on FA, got bored of that alias, that is why i changed to almondcookie (now banned) - and i never tried to hide the fact that michangel and almondcookie were the same person. you can keep deleting my posts, moderators, i’ll just keep re-registering until i can’t be bothered or until some sense has been pounded into this astounding nazi website.
thanks to 914, suchafob, ralphy and some of the other more open-minded voices in this forum.
most ppl are taking this social-level analysis of considering the “asian fetish” (for lack of a better term) PERSONALLY. the fact that your interracial relationship doesn’t reflect the “asian fetish” observation doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in other relationships, people, media, or any sort of art/communication.
the fact that you might be offended by these observations - when such observations are not even directed at you personally - does not give you license to try and run these important observations into the ground on the basis that you believe it is racist or inaccurate for your case.
bhlhuijia, you’ve done a great job in this thread in being reasonable in getting your point of view across. and you have been really mature in not letting blatant intolerance, ageism and condescending comments get to you. props up for that! way better than i could have done/put up with! i was shocked (but not really) again and again at how much Tigerman & co got away with. well, some of the posts have been deleted, so the mods are taking notice.
i think this forum reflects that many of the foreigners in taiwan for the long-term are “refugees” in a sense. they came to a place where they can escape from the american, canadian, british, whatever dream in all its variations, and feel like big fish in little ponds.
any reminder of any sort of voice of authority from that world - especially the academic - riles them because it reminds them of exactly that which they are trying to escape from. the fact that they are already used to having a certain level of attention attached to their words as foreigners in taiwan makes that sense of indignation stronger. their nice, comfortable bubble has been carefully built up and settled into, so, they will defend it to the death. you see, people like Tigerman ALWAYS know best.
constantly using reductionism (as opposed to deductionism) to literally cut a viewpoint to pieces is not mature, constructive or a sign of intelligence. most importantly, it prevents the debater who is doing it from seeing the broader picture. that’s their loss, i suppose. it is also extremely bad manners on a PUBLIC forum.
what does it say about this forum? GENERALLY a place where people are not interested in the abstract or broader perspective - when it’s the ability to step back from literal-mindedness and what is immediately visible that is desperately needed.
a place, where, if one is looking for agreement, one should frame their ideas in the most literal and materially provable manner. the simplistic and most literal view is safe to express here. “don’t you dare get all PC or intellectual on me! i don’t care if you actually know more than me! anyway, that’s not possible!” this characteristic of forumosa is clearly observable when you compare it with other websites that hold discussions on similar topics.
if i feel compelled to post anything here in the future, i’ll remember to first run it by a certain constituency of people. you know, those who are always insisting so and so are pretentious and out of touch with reality and only vote for those with down-home, solid, reliable values that reflect a good citizen of…wherever.
Mine’s very healthy. Very cardio-vascular.
Great post, other than that. Thanks.
Yes I do. How could it be otherwise? I am just a person. I refuse to be tarred with a ‘social-level’ brush. And I am sick of hearing sly comments from Asian Americans that insult myself, my wife and my family.
Ah…so the truth comes out…see you do believe the stereotype. Are you sure that is who we truly are?
Wow stud, is that kind of like being a grand wizard in dungeons & dragons or more like having an all access pass to a treky convention?
[quote=“almondbiscuit”]sorry bhlhuijia, i should have shown myself earlier. but i was banned.
just wanted to clear up the accusations that anyone was using double identities to create “support” - to the extent that posting in good faith counts for anything here. however, michangel certainly was the first account i used to post on FA, got bored of that alias, that is why i changed to almondcookie (now banned) - and i never tried to hide the fact that michangel and almondcookie were the same person. you can keep deleting my posts, moderators, i’ll just keep re-registering until i can’t be bothered or until some sense has been pounded into this astounding nazi website.[/quote]
You haven’t been banned, nor, to my knowledge, have any posts been deleted, although you’d have to check with the moderator of this forum to be sure. At any rate, I highly doubt it, as we have a policy to not delete anything - if it’s off-topic it gets moved to the temp forum, and if it’s a personal attack it gets moved to the mod-viewable flame forum. At any rate, I’m the one with the keys to this thing, and I can tell you that I haven’t even looked at your account. Please feel free to contact me at 0935-560-995 if you are having trouble accessing your account. My name is Anthony van Dyck.
And “nazi website”? That’s pretty offensive.
i do mean many of the foreigners who are in taiwan for the long term. i’m happy to be the first to admit that this is an opinion and it is somewhat of a social stereotype (but not a stereotype based on race and physical appearance, unlike the “asian fetish”), with no hard data. i formed it by living in an area with a lot of foreigners, frequenting places with a lot of foreigners - because i like the same food, interacting with many foreigners here. i do believe it doesn’t apply to every foreigner in taiwan for the long term, or short term. but it certainly applies to a lot of forumosans. i do apologise if this gives you offence but i did qualify my observation.
i don’t think you should be taking the “asian fetish” thing so personally. afterall, we can all take offence from social level studies because there must be some sort of characteristic that applies to any one of us right? and makes social -level generalisations based on that?
Maoman: i haven’t been able to log in to the almondcookie account so i assumed i was banned - hence the nazi website comment - apologies for the misunderstanding. thanks for your and Erhu’s replies on this matter - i’ll just use almondbiscuit if i post.
Wow stud, is that kind of like being a grand wizard in dungeons & dragons or more like having an all access pass to a treky convention?[/quote]
Its like being in a Doctor Who club. Which is of course much cooler than Star Trek. I don’t know what dungeons & dragons is so I can’t comment on that. Are there any Asians in it? Demure ones?
Well, there you have it. You lose. Based on that well-known internet discussion forum rule about bringing up Hitler or Nazis. 
Oh, right. The folks who agree with you are “open-minded”. How very objective of you…
Well, I disagree with that. I have a right to disagree with you whether an issue concerns me or not. That’s free speech. Maybe you learned about that in law school?
Do you know what irony is?
Some posts that were deemed off-topic have been moved to the Temp forum, but not deleted. My, but you’re easily shocked…
This is what makes you a hypocrite. You cannot complain on one hand about stereotypes tagged on one group and then tag stereotypes on another group.
I’m sure that’s completely false for most posters here. But, you go ahead and maintain your fantasies about this group of people while condemning those who maintain fantasies re other groups.
What in the world are you talking about?
I never asserted that I know anything in this discussion. I merely posted my opinions, and I did not post them as facts. Again, are you familiar with the concept of irony?
Nonsense. If it is effective, that’s all that matters. Moreover, as one trained in law, you should know that lawyers respond to assertions in this manner. If you post something silly, I will point it out or question it. If you find that immature or unintelligent, well, that’s your problem. Not everyone who disagrees with you in the real world is going to be as gentle as I have been.
A silly assumption… but, one you consistently make.
Pointing out your double standards and silly statements is bad manners in a debate? That’s news to me! 
Its a mistake, IMO, to assume that those who disagree with you have not considered the matter from a different perspective of in a different way. You’ll learn that some day, I’m sure.
That’s generally a good idea.
Intellectual is fine, when its done competently.
Oh, the irony. That is precisely the attitude chiquita/aka bhlhuijia and whoever else you are have taken in this discussion. You know! You’ve read it in a text book! How dare we with life experience disagree with you! You remind me of a professor in grad school… he was lecturing on multi-national corporations and political risk analysis and a student who had been working with a large company indicated that his company’s experience in Y was X. The professor jumped up and excitedly replied, “No, no! Its not X. Its Z. Read my book!” Haha, I always get a chuckle when I remember that exchange!
What a shame.
Not necessary. Just think before you post!
Stop prancing around like some mindless caricature of an outraged sophomore…
Sorry… I just love that quote and look for opportunities to use it.
yes, i suppose i am a hypocrite because i subscribe to a stereotype myself - the stereotype of the foreigner in taiwan.
however, first, i am well aware of this stereotype i hold, happy to admit it, and i am happy to forget it every single time i meet a foreigner or interact with a foreigner in taiwan.
second, the “asian fetish” has a basis in colonialism, women’s rights, the history of how east asians have been treated in the US and as minorities in western countries. i think the “asian fetish” objectifies people and brings a sexual dimension to the stereotype.
to me, these are big differences.