Asian tigers leaving Taiwan behind (2018 edition)

Sorry I missed this question. Could you ask it again, in English please? No idea what you mean. Also, what I said about labor and capital can be found in any intermediate and even beginning economic textbooks.

For goodness sake, of course developing countries are younger. When you’re an agrarian society you have to have more kids to work and as a means of society security when you get old.

You have the causal arrow pointed in the wrong direction.

No kidding. Taiwan was just downgraded to an emerging market like last year.

I guess that would make it a “reemerging market.”

That works.

I wasn’t joking – that thread is really something.

Now please, show us which employers in Taiwan are suffering from an inability to fire people.

(I won’t get started on wages.)

Also, what I said about labor and capital can be found in any intermediate and even beginning economic textbooks.

I don’t object to viewing economics as a science. I have two questions though:

  1. Do you consider economics a hard (as opposed to soft) science?
  2. Do you believe the science of economics is “settled”?

Oh, here we go again… :tumble:

It’s not like the same thing happens every-single-time, everywhere in the world, regardless of previous governments and foreign intervention…

Just like how those gunboats in the 19th century had no effect on Asian history… :cactus:

In other news, the Dominican Republic has just chosen socialism! Quick, get your money out before it’s abolished! :runaway:

I read Icon’s post three times. It has a story on why employers don’t like the new rules. Because labor costs are higher and hence profits are less. That’s consistent with economic theory.

The only thing Icon appears to be saying is that overworking your employees is not productive. That’s something we can discuss, but that’s a different issue.

There might be a problem with Taiwan’s business model of cutting costs to the bone, instead of making a better product.

I think higher wages may stimulate more demand. It’s possible.

Most businesses in Taiwan are mom and pop. Regulations are burdensome on them.

Economists are the most hard-nosed of the social scientists, but few things are settled (free trade is good, Engel’s law, EITC better than minimum wage).

And people are getting really pissed off about working non stop. Enjoy:


I meant the whole thread, man! Not just the OP…

There might be a problem with Taiwan’s business model of cutting costs to the bone, instead of making a better product.

We agree on something. :slight_smile:

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I’ve had my own company here since 2001 and have done very well. I’m a creative with dozens of patents and many successful products.

Having said that I’m in the process of heading for the door though because the negatives have become insurmountable here. They are:

  1. Lack of affordable, quality office/industrial space
  2. High cost/low quality housing
  3. Limited, expensive educational options for children
  4. High income tax rate for high value employees
  5. Lack of quality workers
  6. Pollution levels
  7. Increasing China threat

It’s too bad because Taiwan has many other strengths which have served my company well over the years. The party’s over though as none of these problems are going to be fixed.


Some of the reforms made by the Tsai administration have attempted to deal with aspects of points 4 and 5 listed above. Unfortunately the other points remain squarely unaddressed.


As a university teacher, I’m curious about this one. My students are always trying to figure out ways to make themselves more competitive. What do you feel is lacking in workers here? What kinds of suggestions or ideas could I give my students? (Er, apart perhaps from “Don’t major in English”, because it’s too late for that.)

Escape the Taiwan educational system as early as possible. Work in a SME in the U.S. or Europe for five years or so. Unfortunately once they take these two steps they won’t want to return to Taiwan.

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Ha … OK, fair point, but I don’t really want to tell them “Never mind, it’s too late - you don’t have a chance.”

As someone doing business in Taiwan 15 years, as well in the States and AU/NZ I find young people (many but not all) have hard time to think. I think this is so, because others think for them (parents and teachers, ect) then when working they have hard time doing things independent of exact instructions to them. Some crazy examples, new staff can not order food(drinks for a meeting from café) via a phone call and search google how to do it and still fail (someone else had to call). Another person (New grad) asked to write in Chinese about Melbourne City culture(AU) copied info eating Kangaroo, and when told it’s strange info just copied other info from the internet (copy and paste) and not even “think” what to write. For me, I wonder what learned in four years of college but I guess it’s more than that if you never had think much ever. It’s a big burden on better staff to help.

If this copy-and-paste culture is prevalent among recent college graduates, the question that comes to mind is this: what the hell were (and potentially are) their college instructors doing in terms of teaching and assessment?


What I see as an instructor: at the beginning of the school year, many of my students think that copy and paste is the expected way of producing an assignment. They quickly learn otherwise, but I suspect only a minority internalize the idea that “Oh, I’m supposed to produce my own work?!”; for most of them it’s just “Damn, in Teacher Laowai’s class, we’d better follow his stupid rules.” On occasion I’ve taught the same students a year or two later, and some of them need to re-learn the lesson; they seem surprised that I still care about copy-and-paste in other classes too. “Huh?! But I thought we only needed to produce our own work in that other class?!” All of which leads me to suspect that, in most of their classes, copy-and-paste isn’t considered a big deal.

Then again, there are also cultural differences. Isn’t reproducing classic passages from memory the main thing they’re supposed to do in high school? My poor students are often completely thrown off balance when I tell them I want to see their own ideas as well as what’s in the book.

The thing that probably worries me most is the reaction to group assignments. A distressing number of students will simply do nothing - they’ll just wait for others in the group to do the work. I can understand shirking, or deliberately trying to take an easier task, or apologizing that they’ve got other duties and don’t have time this week, but they can do something next week - but some of these kids do nothing, yet they’ll still expect their name to be included on the assignment that’s handed in. And I don’t understand how someone can so lack … self-respect? … as to behave like that. Those ones - definitely a minority, but not an insignificant one - would be a curse for any future employer.


Copying-and-Pasting too!!

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Taiwan has always been an emerging market. Korea is an emerging market too. You can be an emerging market and a developed economy. Please get your facts straight before you show off your ignorance.

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