What is happenning with bail outs? We bailed out the banks.Then we bailed out the insurance companies and now we are going to bail out the auto industry. I, for one, still believe in a free market. I am firmly oppossed to these, and other bail outs. Let the economy work. Bad businesses need to fail It opens the door for new and enterprising businesses. Obama wants more beuracacy to to tune of 25 billion dollars. Come on! How much money do they think we have? Ya, I know, millions of jobs. The world will rock on it’s heels. Don’t believe this crap. If a company fails, it’s because nobody wants what is on the market. Anybody want a “Hummer” at 12 miles per gallon? We don’t need to retrain workers. We need to retrain employers. This is an employer problem and the UAW may have power but I firmly believe that the tax paying public has much more power. Say “bullshit” and make your elected officials do what they should do. Let the poorly run manufactures fail and other properly run businesses take their place as it should happen in a free economy.
FTA? Free Trade Agreements. The U.S. ships jobs and factories out and trade for inexpensive goods. What a great deal. A 4,000 dollar Nissan at the cost of several thousand families. Good job.
Yeek! The peasants are revolting!
[quote]Bonuses for Wall Street Should Go to Zero, U.S. Taxpayers Say
By Christine Harper
Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) – U.S. taxpayers, who feel they own a stake in Wall Street after funding a $700 billion bailout for the industry, don’t want executives’ bonuses reduced. They want them eliminated.
I may not understand everything, but I do understand common sense, and when you lend money to someone, you don't want to see them at a new-car dealer the next day,'' said Ken Karlson, a 61-year-old Vietnam veteran and freelance marketer in Wheaton, Illinois. The bailout money shouldn’t have been given to them in the first place.’’[/quote]
Clearly he simply has no idea what it costs to run a Ferrari!
HG
Bonuses, eh? That reminds me of what the deer said just before the car slammed into him going 65.
"Dim your brights, you muth . . . "
Judging from what I’m observing from my perch the American people have a lot more to worry about right now than corporate handouts and Wall Street perks.
[quote=“spook”]Bonuses, eh? That reminds me of what the deer said just before the car slammed into him going 65.
"Dim your brights, you muth . . . "
Judging from what I’m observing from my perch the American people have a lot more to worry about right now than corporate handouts and Wall Street perks.[/quote]
I know I do, it’s hard being homeless in Chicago during da winter…
“Looks like another ye olde stimulus package”
I don’t know about the accuracy of the allegations in this article, but he sure makes a striking point.
[color=#BF0000]
Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?
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Look, I’m on the bottom of the pile here in the States. I realize it might be easier to keep some perspective down here, but it’s impossible to be heard. The guys at the top who are making these bailout decisions are so high up, they’re breathing such thin, rarified air that their brains are obviously oxygen starved. IMO.
No, no, no. Supposedly they’re thinking of you now.
[quote]U.S. Shifts Focus in Credit Bailout to the Consumer
The Treasury Department on Wednesday officially abandoned the original strategy behind its $700 billion effort to rescue the financial system, as administration officials acknowledged that banks and financial institutions were as unwilling as ever to lend to consumers.
But with a little more than two months left before President Bush leaves office, Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. is hoping to put in place a major new lending program that would be run by the Federal Reserve and aimed at unlocking the frozen consumer credit market.
The program, still in the planning stages, would for the first time use bailout funds specifically to help consumers instead of banks, savings and loans and Wall Street firms. . .
Mr. Paulson alluded to the consumer credit plan vaguely in a news conference on Wednesday, and some Fed officials cautioned that they had seen few details. But Treasury officials said such a plan would give them the biggest bang for the buck and might be enacted within several weeks.
Mr. Paulson conceded that he had scrapped the plan he originally sold to Congress in September, which was to have the Treasury Department buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of illiquid mortgage-backed securities in order to free up banks to resume normal lending. . . [/quote]
nytimes.com/2008/11/13/busin … =yourmoney
But I wouldn’t hold my breath, if I were you, waiting for them to ride in on white horses and bail you out.
No, no, no. Supposedly they’re thinking of you now.
[quote]U.S. Shifts Focus in Credit Bailout to the Consumer
The Treasury Department on Wednesday officially abandoned the original strategy behind its $700 billion effort to rescue the financial system, as administration officials acknowledged that banks and financial institutions were as unwilling as ever to lend to consumers.
But with a little more than two months left before President Bush leaves office, Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. is hoping to put in place a major new lending program that would be run by the Federal Reserve and aimed at unlocking the frozen consumer credit market.
The program, still in the planning stages, would for the first time use bailout funds specifically to help consumers instead of banks, savings and loans and Wall Street firms. . .
Mr. Paulson alluded to the consumer credit plan vaguely in a news conference on Wednesday, and some Fed officials cautioned that they had seen few details. But Treasury officials said such a plan would give them the biggest bang for the buck and might be enacted within several weeks.
Mr. Paulson conceded that he had scrapped the plan he originally sold to Congress in September, which was to have the Treasury Department buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of illiquid mortgage-backed securities in order to free up banks to resume normal lending. . . [/quote]
nytimes.com/2008/11/13/busin … =yourmoney
But I wouldn’t hold my breath, if I were you, waiting for them to ride in on white horses and bail you out.[/quote]
RIGHT! I Just posted in Fox’s thread that banks aren’t willing to loan to risky bowers anymore, and everyone’s risky now. So many people in the States have such bad credit that there’s no one left to lend to. So, what, my government is going to cut me another $300 dollar check just in time for Christmas? Thanks Uncle Sam! But that won’t help much of anyone but Wal-Mart. My government is going to refinance millions of home loans? Since so many homes were bought at hugely inflated prices, I don’t see that really working. If I owned a the home I live in, I might be greatful not to lose it, but I still lose value. If I own other properties, it’s less helpful still.
I realize that I don’t have the best grasp on economics, but I just don’t see the alternative to allowing things to correct. If the entire world economy corrects at the same time, what happens? Suddenly there are five rich guys and everyone else is poor? If we’re all on a level playing field, will peace break out, or war? If everyone in the world simultaniously forgave all debt and started from scratch, would space implode? I don’t know.
But I do know that an urgent $700 B emergency in September that gets scrapped in Nov., after a couple AIG resortgasms, and banks that still won’t lend, looks a hell of a lot like no one anywhere has any idea who’s arse his head is up. If that’s the case, it’s all pointless anyway, right?
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]I don’t know about the accuracy of the allegations in this article, but he sure makes a striking point.
link to the article[/quote]
I found this article that you might find interesting. It tries to break down the 73 dollars per hour labor cost into its component parts.
Basically he says the $73 per hour can be seperated into:
- Cash payments (Including: wages, overtime and vacation pay) $40 /hr
- Fringe benefits (Including health insurance and pensions) $15 /hr
- Current retirees (health insurace for them, pensions, etc etc) 15-20 /hr
Whether or not you include #3 as part of the hourly cost calculation, normal workers make $55 /hr at a minimum from salary and benefits. That’s between 7 to 10 dollars an hour more than the workers at Toyota or Nissan make. What’s more telling is that it is about double what the average American wage earner makes.
These guys take home (using numbers 1 and 2) a total value of 114,000 per year before taxes, union fees, health co-pays, and everything else. That breaks down into 83,200 in cash payments and 30,800 in benefits.
[Disclaimer: I used 52 weeks, and 40 hours a week for the calculation. While they wouldn’t actually work 52 weeks, they get vacation and other time off.]
I’d like a Hummer but not at $100K plus which is what they cost in Asia. The fuel economy really isn’t a problem in a lot of countries out this was as fuel is often subsidised but the lack of official dealers means repairs are exorbitant and there is no way to buy anything but a grey import.
On the bail out front you must realise that the so called bail out of AIG was one of the worlds greatest rip offs and not of tax payers but on their behalf. Just look at the difference in treatment of Citibank. AIG shareholders had to give up all their rights to assets that still essentially had the same value as the day they were created but had been re-valued down to zero because of the fair value accounting rules. So when the assets mature Uncle Sam - i.e. you Mr American tax payer will get the benefit. Congrats!
Wasn’t AIG holding the main insurance company for all those toxic loans, meaning they hadn’t a snowballs chance in hell of surviving unless the government took over?
