Being blamed by cram school for loss of business

Is that why so many get away with going against the LSA? It even says in my contract that they follow all Taiwanese laws. Again, more irony…

No? How do you recover funds then? I used to work in the US & I had to go through court with the help of the labor department. I was owed quite a bit. I had a Taiwanese boss then there, too. Something wrong with Taiwanese bosses, lol.

I have no idea what Taiwan labor laws are, but:

It seems totally reasonable to require approval for OT before someone works it. Every job that I’ve ever worked that pays OT required this.

As to the thread title, seems likely you are totally to blame. :wink:

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No there’s just a hierarchy, and it goes from boss to employees. Boss at top, and employee at bottom. Boss holds all the cards, controls your pay, your hours, your whole life. Employee do what the boss says. Labor laws mean nothing to them.

But I do know that even in the states you had to make sure the boss approves of your overtime. It depends on industry, as some just rubber stamps overtime because the project MUST be done on time or the cost is high (construction in particular). But others will never ever approve overtime no matter what. If you reach 40 hours they just send you home. In general employers rather not approve overtime if they don’t have to, after all the whole aim is to prevent overwork.

I don’t know how it is in Taiwan, I suspect they just kinda tacitly want you to work overtime, and thinks it’s their god given right to not pay you for it unless you specifically ask for, and is approved of the overtime. Otherwise they just say “well you decided to work overtime, be glad you’re even paid your normal wage for it”.

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If you take them to the labor bureau and negotiate there, it’s very likely they will have a lawyer to cover their butts and be willing to pay you STFU money if you “quit” “right now”, in addition to the overtime that you will be owed (provided you have documentation). The labor bureau will not do anything for you regarding child abuse or unsafe situations or anything like that. You’d have to report each individual violation (with video documentation) to the government (Hello Taipei’s website or call 1999). But it doesn’t take months to resolve things with the help of the labor bureau, more than 2-3 weeks (speaking from experience).

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I would find a job that pays more for six months. Surely it’s a lot easier now that most restrictions are lifted. Also, almost all schools do illegal things here. I personally wouldn’t sue them as you aren’t likely to win. Foreigners are always wrong even when they’re correct. In the future be super careful about what you say. Children naturally misunderstand combined with it being acceptable to lie here just… :face_with_spiral_eyes:

To be fair they would have still blamed them even if they said nothing. OP should be careful next time. Most Taiwanese don’t understand English isn’t always face value.

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This is why parents send their children to cram school - so that they get better test grades for school and college exams.

Also, unfortunately the English tests in Taiwan are mostly based on memorization. So the students will be memorising.

The school is clearly a bad fit for you. There are some schools and cram schools that focus of actual English ability. But this one doesn’t, and you can’t force it to change.

As for telling a student that the school isn’t worth their time - I think it was unprofessional. In any job, it would be considered unprofessional to bad-mouth your company to customers, even if what you’re saying is accurate.

Whole situation sounds shitty, just leave.

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26 posts were split to a new topic: Is college worth it?

Not your problem, just quit. The guilt trip is a common tactic used by the bosses who don’t feel guilty about screwing you.

I doubt it. But it is a bit of an ‘everyone knows everyone’ in each city kind if deal. I wouldn’t worry if you’re moving cities.

Taiwanese regulators don’t see their jib as regulating. The FSC is the same. You have to force the regulators to regulate but they will if you make them. Taiwan is a bit exhausting, you always have to fight for your rights and entitlements, it’s never given freely.

I’ve had contracts with illegal conditions that say ‘this has been prepared in accordance to ROC law blah blah. They’re counting on your ignorance. They also have no intention of meeting their part if the deal but will hold it against you so you meet yours.
I think the main reason for employers breaching the LSA is mostly because most of the workers here do not stand up for themselves. They don’t follow the LSA because no one is making them. The government doesn’t proactively follow up, in Australia Fairwork proactively looks for bosses breaching labour laws, this does not happen in Taiwan. And the workers don’t stand up for themselves enough. Those that do, get their moneys worth. I’m the only person at my workplace who has their pension paid correctly because I stood up for myself. I didn’t threaten them with legal action but dropped hints, threatened to quit and had job offers, and had slightly loud conversations about how it bothers me and is illegal. Taiwan is a game you need to play.

Nothing IMHO. I don’t have a Bachelors Degree mostly because I know I’m not an idiot and I also know that there will be no return on investment if I went and got one. Loss of full time wages for 2-3 years to end up with a job that pays less than I can get now, no thanks.

@LucidPower if I was you, I’d quit now. There’re jobs everywhere. My job is still looking for my replacement, in Miaoli City. They haven’t advertised but just complain about not being able to find anyone, standard Taiwanese thinking too.

Welcome to Forumosa :slight_smile:

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Wait… people get paid “overtime” for marking essays at home? I just do that because it’s part of my job. Oh well…

But yeah, if part of your contract was you would be compensated for that, then you should. Proof of work would be enough for most employers.

I’m mixed on this. First, mind your own business, man. Don’t go telling students they should quit. It does sound like you already had an axe to grind with your employer before all this, and that’s part of the reason you said that and got into this mess. Be professional with your students and perform the job you’re expected to, which is teach English. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, you can be friendly too. But don’t overstep your boundaries. If I enrolled my kid in, say, a piano class… and the teacher told her that she should quit, I would also be pissed.

That said, your employer is overstepping their boundaries as well. There’s no way he’s legally entitled to any money from this. He may factor it into whether he wants to renew your contract later on, but I think right now he’s angry and trying to take advantage of your ignorance of local law or norms and seeing if he can claw back some of that lost revenue by tricking you. It’s pretty illegal what he’s attempting, and even though I personally think your conduct with the student wasn’t super professional, his conduct with you as his employee sounds magnitudes worse.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: Wait… I’m a bit unclear. Is your boss intending on garnishing your wages to make up the 40k NTD? That’s what I initially thought you implied and that would be illegal and morally wrong. But rereading your post, I don’t see that explicitly said. If he just wants you gone over this, then depending on your contract he may be within his rights. You should clarify this point though.

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This, believe it or not, IS teaching in Taiwan. That’s just how it works. If you’re not doing exactly that, then you re NOT teaching.

Railing against the system will get you nothing but ulcers and a bad reputation, and possibly also a cancelled work visa.

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I get the message that you should want to learn. If you are forced to do something, naturally, you will push back. What we are trying, in an extremely old fashion way, is to limit the pushback. Once they aren’t bored or unruly your classroom environment will immediately improve.

My question is this: Are you qualified to teach anything other than vocabulary?

There are many ways to learn. Memorization is one of them. That’s how all children in China and Taiwan learn Chinese (and all other subjects, for that matter).

If memorization was your school’s MO, then it wasn’t your place to suggest an entirely different approach even if you think your approach is more effective.

What if your school switches to your approach? Will they need to retrain all their other teachers? Will they need to fire some of them who have no experience in teaching with your approach? Do you see how this can lead to all sorts of problems for the administration?

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I’m sorry to break it to you, but I believe your boss was correct.

4/3 was meant to be a work day, but because it was adjacent to a holiday, it was swapped with 3/25 so that people can enjoy four days off in a row.

However, because 3/25 was already a regular work day for you (you are contracted to work Saturdays, no?), you would have had to work on Sunday 3/26 (or whatever) if you wanted to take 4/3 off.

You can’t just take 4/3 off without working an extra day.

I said something similar to a class of adults years ago, where half of them refused to participate, follow along, or do anything. The gist was, if you think you can come here, sit and do nothing, and at the end of the year know English, don’t waste your money. Seriously. Because at year end I just knew I will get the blame for them learning nothing.

They all nodded along and then continued to do nothing. In retrospect I should have said nothing. But it is frustrating when you know people are wasting money and will get zero out of it. And the teacher feels useless too.

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Will they lose customers who want their children to do well on standardized tests that determine future prospects and require memorization?

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On the topic of getting money from shady employers, one of my students was getting shafted by her employer as he would delay paycheques to workers. He was behind 2 months and she brought it up to me when we were chatting. I told her to go to the labor bureau and get her money. She did and got 3 months back pay. She didn’t want to go at first but I said, you worked, he owes it, go get your money.

After she got her money, he missed another payment to the other coworkers. He then absconded and stiffed everyone 4 months pay. She was the only one that got paid

I was surprised how many people are willing to accept the owner’s excuse of missing a pay period for months on end. In N.A. that wouldn’t fly.

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Oh man been there done that.

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That’s been illegal for a long time now in Taiwan. Not that it doesn’t still happen especially outside the jurisdiction of the MOE, but it is quite illegal

I guess I just don’t understand why you stuck around for so long? There’s plenty of jobs for teachers out there.

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Generally speaking, overtime work should be approved ahead of time EACH TIME. This way the employer can plan ahead and know exactly how much overtime pay they need to budget into your next paycheck.

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