[quote=“bobl”][quote=“joesax”]I’m not seeing what you guys are seeing. There are some really nice places under the title of “minsu”. Places where cooking in the rooms definitely wouldn’t go down well.
People are willing to spend a bit, too. A lot of these places cost 2000 or more a night.[/quote]
Yes, there are lots of places, but the websites won’t show occupancy and if it’s viable to run as a business.
I believe that was the OP’s intent.
My wife and I are surviving business wise, but we don’t have to pay a mortgage or rent the building. We were lucky enough to have inherited it.
My FIL bought those properties years ago dirt cheap.
Could a startup make it here. I don’t know.
In my opinion it would be rough.
If we had to pay the mortgage, I don’t think it would be worthwhile.[/quote]
I was responding to the implication that Taiwanese domestic tourists aren’t interested in sophistication, and that there’s no market for mid/upscale homestays/guesthouses here:[quote=“TNT”][quote=“bobl”]
However, time may bring changes to the market, so in the future it may be better.
Hard to say.[/quote]…
If Taiwanese and Chinese want more sophistication they go other countries. It seems there is little potential here for a tourist industry beyond what is wanted here. An increase in numbers, but not a change in preference or expectations[/quote]
From what I know, there’s definitely a market for comfortable, nice-looking minsu with reasonable facilities. A lot of Taiwanese people I know like to stay in that kind of place. I get the impression that this kind of domestic tourism is increasing. I think Muzha Man would agree.
As to the question of whether an individual foreign-run B&B could survive, that depends on a lot of things. As you pointed out, not having to pay a mortgage would help a lot. I’d think decent marketing is pretty much essential – things like providing information at tourist information offices and on websites such as the ones I linked to. It would be great to get the place featured on TV and in local travel magazines. I guess word of mouth’s very important too.
I don’t want to cast doubt on bobl’s opinion – he’s the expert here on this, after all. But its not my experience. There are hundreds of places like the ones in Joe’s links. Hundreds. And in my personal experience, MANY of them require booking well in advance – up to a month ahead or even more in some cases.
I don’t want to cast doubt on bobl’s opinion – he’s the expert here on this, after all. But its not my experience. There are hundreds of places like the ones in Joe’s links. Hundreds. And in my personal experience, MANY of them require booking well in advance – up to a month ahead or even more in some cases.
And I’ve stayed in many of these places, but not a single one has had problems such as the one bobl describes of people basically treating them as a campsite. Maybe you’re going for a lower-budget clientele, I don’t know.
Yea, maybe your right Sandman.
Usually the wife takes in any riffraff that might wander by.
I try to be more selective, hopefully I can convince her to maybe refuse some so that we can attract better people.
Actually, after our second remodel, I think she has learned a lesson, for we haven’t had this kind of crap for awhile.
A guy I used to work with (teaching ESL) started a b & b in the Lake District. His selling point was that he also taught English to the guests. I’m not in touch with him anymore, but last I heard he was doing very well taking Japanese tourists around Dove Cottage.
Obviously this isn’t entirely relevant, except perhaps a b & b combined with English teaching might work in Taiwan?
I’m just thinking why would a single woman pay for a b+b with English lessons when she can get them for free with a language exchange? Hotel and English lessons together for one price? Maybe for a love hotel—but I think it would break the city bylaw that A-bian passed when he was mayor…hehehe.
joesax,
I am only referring to their lack of interest in western food.
That doesn’t mean that I am saying they lack sophistication. The OP stated that serving good western food is on of his motivations for doing this, and also because of his history in food service, and if I recall correctly, one of his reasons for closing the restraunt was that the locals just didn’t understand his cooking style.
I share the same type of history and interests as the OP. and my comments were specifically geared toward that.
Upscale, western places don’t succede in Taidong. Right now that is a fact.
I hope that changes, and the market learns to enjoy western food. Right now, in Taidong, that is not the case.
I accept your point about a lot of places cleaning up and making their rooms nicer.
I agree, that is happening, and a lot of these places are also my customers for my lighting business.
Also, our family business is the largest Building supply co. in Taidong County. So we are probally involved in some way with helping them remodel.
However, none of these places is trying to be a western style B&B, with western food and dinners.
Like you said, they are min shu’s.
Which is also what I stated that we changed over too, except I used the english term hostel.
Should we start a new thread about upscale min shu’s?
I’m just thinking why would a single woman pay for a b+b with English lessons when she can get them for free with a language exchange? Hotel and English lessons together for one price? Maybe for a love hotel—but I think it would break the city bylaw that A-bian passed when he was mayor…hehehe.[/quote]
I guess it all depends upon how good one is, at teaching English.
If you are serious about creating a profitable business then choosing a location is quite important. Tourism in many places in Taiwan is very seasonal. You might be booked out every weekend in summer, but that still leaves 300 days of the year when you need to find customers.
Like some other people have suggested close to Taipei is a good choice and there are plenty of very attractive places close to Taipei. Another place to consider might be Xinzhu. People there have the highest disposable income of any city in Taiwan. There are plenty of nice places in the mountains around Beipu and Neiwan. They are also close enough to Taipei to be able to attract some customers from there.
Belgian Pie, I think it is a great idea, and I can rent you a nice building with 16 rooms, centrally located in downtown, next to the traditional market. You can turn the first and second floors into a restraunt /bakery.
bobl … downtown Taidong? next to a ‘wet’ market? I suppose that’s not the best place to be on a holiday …
But what wix said is more what I just this afternoon told my wife … but she’s just back home from China, only for a short 4 day vacation, and it isn’t really absorbed by her yet so I have to tell her again tomorrow …
I think north is to dependent on the weather and maybe Beipu and around that area should be a better choice …
Taiwanese travel in their own country in great numbers. Those 3 million visits to Kenting, for example, are not by Japanese.
Taiwanese love food and there are many places high in the mountains where people will travel to just for the scenery and food. I think the only way for a place BP has in mind to succeed were for it to have a popular restaurant/cafe, and a more exclusive place in addition to the B&B.
Taitung already has a high end B&B serving western style food. It’s called Hugo Farm and is a very nice place. I doubt the area could support another though
The people concerned about money these days are not the target clientelle BP would be looking at. Some things to look at would be whether the next presidential election brings direct flights. If it does, expect a lot of professionals to return to Taiwan. This will have a big impact on the domestic economy especially with regard to higher end/specialized restaurants and hotels/B&Bs.
Most nicer B&Bs I’ve seen and stayed at were on land owned by the people running it. Don’t think having access to trails and such is important as most Taiwanese are not interested in anything more than a stroll. A good view would be better.
Off hand I would think Hsinchu would be a good place, as wix suggests. Lots of professionals in the city and from what I know not a lot of great places to eat. In addition they are working on the line out to Neiwan. Used to be a small rail line. Not sure if they are fixing it up or turning it into an MRT style line. In any case it will be a very busy line, with easy access from Hsinchu, taipei and Taichung, when completed. A restaurant on one of the stops could see lots of weekend traffic but also weekday local traffic in the evenings after work.
Maokong would be great but you’d need to find a partner. And I’m sure everyone is vying to get a piece of that pie.
Taiwanese travel in their own country in great numbers. Those 3 million visits to Kending, for example, are not by Japanese. Yes I agree, and these are the same people that are keeping our business afloat.
Taiwanese love food and there are many places high in the mountains where people will travel to just for the scenery and food. I think the only way for a place BP has in mind to succeed were for it to have a popular restaurant/cafe, and a more exclusive place in addition to the B&B. Yes, I agree again, if your food is not too western.
Taidong already has a high end B&B serving western style food. It’s called Hugo Farm and is a very nice place. I doubt the area could support another though Yes, been to Hugo’s, not too bad, but the food is western to the extent that Nobile’s Family steakhouse or Oshang’s Steakhouse is western. I would say more Taiwanese western.
The people concerned about money these days are not the target clientelle BP would be looking at. Some things to look at would be whether the next presidential election brings direct flights. If it does, expect a lot of professionals to return to Taiwan. This will have a big impact on the domestic economy especially with regard to higher end/specialized restaurants and hotels/B&Bs. Yes, this would be great for service industries.
Most nicer B&Bs I’ve seen and stayed at were on land owned by the people running it. Don’t think having access to trails and such is important as most Taiwanese are not interested in anything more than a stroll. A good view would be better. Yes, my point about not having to pay rent or a mortgage. Most places are done on family owned land.
Off hand I would think Hsinchu (Xinzhu) would be a good place, as wix suggests. Lots of professionals in the city and from what I know not a lot of great places to eat. In addition they are working on the line out to Neiwan. Used to be a small rail line. Not sure if they are fixing it up or turning it into an MRT style line. In any case it will be a very busy line, with easy access from Hsinchu (Xinzhu), Taipei and Taichung, when completed. A restaurant on one of the stops could see lots of weekend traffic but also weekday local traffic in the evenings after work.
Maokong would be great but you’d need to find a partner. And I’m sure everyone is vying to get a piece of that pie.[/quote]
Most of the places that I have seen have 4 rooms or less, some may have 6, assuming it’s 6,at 2000 a room, and you sell out every weekend, (I’m being generous here), your annual sales will be around 1.25 mil NT. again, being generous, lets bump it to 1.5 million, counting the few people you will get during the weekdays.
Are you going to hire a housekeeper? What about utilities? Your going to have to provide hot water for showers and Air con.
My utility bills are about 30000 a month for 16 rooms.
I have solar hot water with gas backup. I also run all my hallway and common area lights on solar.
I pay 10000 a month for cleaning.(One part timer, our family does the rest.)
If your mortgage or rent runs around 20000, I figure your expenses will be at least 50000 a month.
That’s close to 600000 per year. Not including your cost to furnish and decorate.
So, maybe, if your lucky, you could make 500000 to 1 million a year.
I made 2 mill. a year when I worked for the Air Force.
Teachers that really work full time can probably pull that down too.
Might be rough on 14 hours a week, but some of them rack up the hours.