And I married one of my teachers. 
Male lions kill the cubs of other male lions so that the lioness will go into heat. Elephants are raised by the herd and adolescent female elephants help out. Adolescent male elephants are kicked out of the herd.
Humor,
Iām a not-unattractive male teacher in junior and senior high school, and I have a lot of female students. Some of them, the girls, will stop and talk to me for literally hours. Sometimes in the past they have put their hands on me, not suggestively but a bit disturbingly for someone from a western background. Iāve had to explain this issue several times and itās always difficult.
Where I (we) come from teachers are not allowed to have sex with their students. There are reasons of āmoralityā, but someone else described it better as āprofessionalismā.
Would you like your grades to be affected by your personal relationship with your teacher? Or do you want your grades - and everyone elseās grade - to be the grades youāve earned?
The girl next to you gets good grades even though she does no work, because she has something going with the teacher. You get bad grades because you refused him. You have bad grades and your teacher persuades you to do something you donāt want to in order to pass. It can easily become a nasty dangerous situation, and the best way to avoid it is to have a simple rule with no exceptions that prevents these situations from arising.
My students have been told very clearly that no physical contact is allowed. They might still tap me on the shoulder, but hands on knees or stroking of hair - to give common examples - are unacceptable. Hugs or kisses would cost me my job, and rightly so. Thereās absolutely no need for that sort of thing, and some very good reasons to avoid it. They may be intended innocently, but can easily be misinterpreted by the recipient or by a casual onlooker - such as your boss. Imagine if I was to stroke a 16-year old girlās hair and tell her how pretty she is, or put my hand on her knee to attract her attention. What would her parents, my boss, and everyone else in the school have to say about that?
And the problem is not limited to male teachers with female students. I donāt hug my students, why do you think you can ask your teacher to hug you? Because sheās a girl? Some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex. Others prefer small children, and often seek out jobs that will bring them into contact with kids - such as teacher or church volunteer. In the west we are a bit paranoid about this, to the extent that many people are afraid to touch kids at all for fear of being arrested as paedophiles. Itās sad, and maybe a bit extreme, but the principle is fair. If your child was buggered by a wayward priest wouldnāt you ask why there were no rules to limit the chances of such things happening?
Physically, teachers have to keep a distance from their students for the sake of the students and for their own protection. That doesnāt prevent teachers being friendly, and as an adult Iām sure that you can understand and will respect the teacher for acting properly. Youāve made an improper request, and itās not fair on the teacher for you to ask for hugs.
Also, as someone else said, teaching is a job. Hanging out with your students outside of class is rarely relaxing. In fact itās mentally no different from being in a class for which you get paid. So why not collect the money instead of giving a free class to a few chosen students? I work for money, and spend it having a good time with people that I know well and can relax and have fun with. Why should I spend my free time āworkingā for nothing? I like my students, and enjoy being āfriendlyā with them, but there has to be a clear division between a teacherās professional life and private life.
[quote=āLorettaā] Where I (we) come from teachers are not allowed to have sex with their students.
Iām a not-unattractive male teacher in junior and senior high school, and I have a lot of female students
Hugs or kisses would cost me my job, and rightly so. .[/quote]
So what would a good shag with your students cost you? 
Detention after class? lol 
You have a lot of female studentsā¦ what are you teaching? Human Physiology? What is the meaning of this have? Itās a fruedian slip perhaps? 
Even if you bar all physical contact you can doing nothing about a student who gets a crush on ( you ) a teacher. Happens all the time. Teaching is a dangeous professionā¦ and you need danger money to be working in Junio & Senior High Schoolsā¦ Loretta 
So far no one has developed an obvious crush on me, apart from Tom Hill. I think the likelihood of this happening is reduced if you have a friendly relationship with clear boundaries.
The ācostā of a good shag with my students? If such an option ever came up I honestly donāt know what Iād do. What would you do?
[quote=āsmithsgjā]What kind of remotely inappropriate things have happened for godās sake bismarck?
Here where I live thereās one of my sonās female kindy classmates whoās always trying to hang on my leg and stuff, ugh. Probably doesnāt get enough affection at home Iād say.[/quote]
I would say a boy (or oddly enough a girl) giving you a whack in the knackers is inapppropriate, wouldnāt you?
Perhaps I would run Run Away 
Howeverā¦as I donāt teach at any near junior or senior high schools ( none where I live ) I could not honestly advise youā¦ Perhaps a night out at the meat market ( did I say Carnegies? ) might help you refrain from absconding with some scrumptious morsel for some carnival knowledge.
Ignore my sordid humourā¦ 
I think it depends on the age of the pupils. If weāre talking college-age or high school I think physical contact is definitely overriding the boundaries of the professional relationship. Thereās something kinda creepy to me about teachers who end up in romantic relationships with their students, considering the structure of power in a teaching arrangement. Its not really appropriate for a lectureship to be sexualised, but I guess its just taboo.
However, if weāre being culturally specific, I experienced real problems studying in Taiwan with teachers acting completely inappropriately by bribing students and falsifying results that counted towards credits for my uni in England. I struggled with the idea that anything could be done āfrom belowā within a high educational institution.
Gloria, if you want to be my student I can think of many things that you could do āfrom belowā. Iām not sure that thereās anything I could teach you though. Still, itās worth a try, isnāt it?
Sam, that girl looks pretty good from that angle but I think things would be a bit different on a day-to-day basis, without the aid of a good photographer. I teach a few of 11 or 12 who are ādevelopedā, if not to F-cup standards, and would probably look very fine if made-up and shoe-horned into a bikini. But I canāt say that theyāre really āattractiveā, theyāre still too child-like for my tastes. The day I start fantasizing about any 11-yo girl is the day I quit my job.
Trying to get back on-topic though: Teaching a new class for the first time I was checking workbooks when this girl - age 11 - put her hand on mine, gazed worshipfully at me, and said āteacher, you have blue eyesā. Imagine your little Japanese princess doing that!!
Perhaps I would run Run Away
Howeverā¦as I donāt teach at any near junior or senior high schools ( none where I live ) I could not honestly advise youā¦ Perhaps a night out at the meat market ( did I say Carnegies? ) might help you refrain from absconding with some scrumptious morsel for some carnival knowledge.
Ignore my sordid humourā¦ [/quote]
A night out at Carnegieās just depresses me if Iām fixated on sex, but as that department is all under control right now Iām not in any imminent danger, I hopeā¦ but let me share a story.
When I was in high school the head of the English department was a balding, ugly old fart - married, with two daughters in our school. His older daughterās best friend was a star student and editor of the school newspaper, which meant that she spent a lot of time with the old man.
Eventually she ran away from home, he left his wife, and they set up house together. I guess she may have been 18 years old by this time. He kept his job. Everyone knew, everyone disapproved and it affected his ability to manage his classes. Imagine keeping control over a bunch of teen boys who are muttering that youāre a dirty old man. And the girls squirmed when he came close to them, in case they were next on his hit list.
I agree with Gloria about age-appropriate behaviours, and agree with Loretta, too. I worked for two years at a local private school, where three hours of my week was spent with preschool and kindergarten-age kids. When it wasnāt āclass time,ā I played with them, which involved them climbing on me, piggy-back rides, playing tag, hide-and-go-seek, etc. Kids play, and itās okay for adults to play with them, much like a parent will do with his/her own children.
However, I donāt consider that to be the same as when Iām in a real classroom with students. Iāve had students who thought it was fun to pull my arm hair, pinch me, tickle, whatever. Not only is it inappropriate on an ethical level, itās also not proper classroom etiquette. And this is the same whether itās in a classroom with many, or in another setting with one or two students under the same premise of it being class, where Iām there to teach, and theyāre there to learn.
I was guilty of going on social outings with some of my adult students when I was in Taiwan years ago. Most of the time it was they who initiated and invited me to go sight-seeing or to special events (birthday parties, class outings, etc). However, my insight into this has changed quite a bit as well.
While going through grad school with all the ethical guidelines laid out for therapists, I learned a great deal about why there are clear boundaries set between therapist and client, and this applies in many ways to the professional relationship that a teacher and student are involved in. It is possible to be compassionate, friendly, and even āfriend-likeā with students and still maintain a level of professionalism. As some people here previously mentioned, there are all sorts of possible things that can happen when boundaries are (a) not clearly established and communicated, and (b) not strictly adhered to.
As a therapist, there have been times when hugging a client has been acceptable (and, arguable, necessary), but only when it is because said person needed it, and solely intended for that person and not because I wanted it. I canāt see how this would at all apply to the classroom setting, in the teacher-student relationship. Teaching, like most other professions, has ethical standards that should be known and upheld. When Iām teaching, I joke and have fun (when thatās appropriate), and encourage my students to do the same, but there will always be very clear boundaries as to what is acceptable/ethical behaviour between myself and my students.
ā¦Just my NT$2 worth
[quote=āsmithsgjā]They donāt spend quality time with them, show them how a book works, play board games. They donāt impose any routine on them, like sensible bedtimes, or any kind of discipline other than arbitrary smackings. When their kids ask curious questions they ignore them entirely. Women donāt look after their kids at all for the first month of the kidsā lives. They send them off to be brought up by grandparents and see them once a month, or they put them in 24 hour daycare from Monday to Friday. They drive them around on scooters without crash helmets. They donāt make them nutritious meals. They fatten the boys up with happy meals and treat the girls like they were a mistake.
Hard maybe, but itās the truth.[/quote]
Sorry for digressing from the main topic, but I had to rebut this statement lest anyone think Chinese parents donāt love their children.
First off, American culture is huge on outward affection. Americans hug and kiss and say āI love youā all the time. The Chinese are much more conservative in this regard and this goes for parent/child relationships. The loveās still there, but it doesnāt manifest itself through outward affection. I canāt tell you why, but thatās the way it is.
The one month āsitting periodā is a cultural thing. Women are expected to rest for one month after giving birth and this tradition goes way back. Again, this isnāt because the mother doesnāt love the child. Nor is she taking advantage of the situation. The mother is simply allowing someone, almost always a relative, whoās in better physical condition to take of the child while she recuperates strength.
As for the rest, the situation varies from family to family. Iāve seen American kids ride around without bicycle helmets. Does that mean the parents donāt love their kids? Or are the parents simply unaware of the consequences? As with many situations, donāt jump to conclusions simply because they are different.
Welcome darkwingaa.
The original criticisms were harsh, of that there is no doubt, and jdsmith has already pointed that out.
To be honest, we British arenāt that big on outward displays of affection either. But to never kiss your child or tell her you love herā¦ how is the child supposed to know you love her if you donāt tell her!?! Do you tell the child itās OK; itās just cultural?! What evidence does the child have that she is loved?
I would say that riding around Taipei on a scooter without a helmet poses a greater risk than biking in the States, and that bike helmets are in any event rarely used in Taiwan at all. Feel free to correct me on this though.
Obviously åęå reflects a cultural difference. But that applies to all my criticisms of Taiwan parenting, not just that one. I happen to believe that many Taiwanese parenting norms do the kids a disservice; and I canāt see that youāve really said anything to rebut that. Actually the mother often stays in a åęåäøåæ where the baby is looked after by professionals (possibly kept overnight in a nursery).
Like Iāve said before, ācultural differenceā is a lame excuse used much too often to support practices, traditions, or societal ills. Sure, some things are truly cultural differences, and when looked at objectively, arenāt a big deal (a new mother taking a ārestā for the first month would be a good example). However, other things, whether some people believe āthatās just the way we do things hereā or āitās our culture,ā is just ridiculous. Iām sure many child psychologists would be able to point to some serious flaws in parenting here, such as sheltering kids until theyāre into their late 20ās and even 30ās, giving them no chance to develop social or life skills, excessive corporal punishment, lack of positive reinforcement, lack of affection, etc. No, not every Taiwanese parent is like that ā¦ back in the day when I was teaching, I met some really wonderful parents ā¦ but most of them had lived or studied abroad for a considerable length of time. The number of parents who I met who were absolutely horrible, however, far outweighed the number of good ones.
And FWIW, I would criticize a lot of parents in the US too ā¦ although in general I think it is better than here, but there are still lots of problems ā¦ some of them the same (i.e. parents who work all the time and never see their kids, forcing their own beliefs on them without allowing the child to develop their own, abuse, etc.) It exists everywhere ā¦ itās just that in some āculturesā it is more tolerated or accepted as the norm. That isnāt to say, however, that it should just continue that way or that no one should try to change it when itās obviously harmful.
Hear hear LBTW!
Although Iām a lot more cynical about åęå than you. I think in principle it would be nice if mothers could have a rest after giving birth; but the practice of åęå does nothing to promote the bonding between mother and child at this critical stage, and indeed serves to undermine it. It works in the interests of those who profit from live-in rest centres, and of grandmothers who wish to take over the rearing of the baby and assert their role in the family.
āLie down, shut up, do as youāre told and give me that baby cos I know best.ā
Loretta,
I think I understand now. No physical contact is a clear and proper distance between teachers and students. But I still think some concerns are appropriate. Like some warm greetings or little candy. I write letters to my teachers sometimes, about some thoughts I get from their classes or some difficulties about language Iām facing. Sometimes we talk about our own little things of lives. Like I met my teachers on my way to school and we talked a lot. They talked to me about their relationship or their families. So I think talking sometimes is no many barries. But it depends. One of my English teacher speaks pretty open. Almost every time he talks with sexual topic. Of course I think heās a little bit way too far. But like I say, itās all depends on the differences of people and how they accept. I try to adapt everybodyās difference and respect. And trying to understand their thoughts and learn to get along with them. I think thatās the reason why itās colorful between human, itsnāt it?
I was like a fly once seeing a foreigner. Kinda one of those Taiwanese who love different races. But I was just curious and desperate to challenge how to get along with them. Well after some experiences, I found out thereās nothing different. Like every single person has different personality. Just try my best to understand and respect.
The reason I asked my teacher to give me a hug was merely showing my concern and welcom. But like you said, it can be a pure friendly behavior but can be dangerous. Thanks for your remind. I got it. Just need to take back my passion for them. I pretty much like those teachers, like friends. But maybe just like one of my teacher said, if i were not his student, maybe we can talk further. Well, I will try to understand your principle and professionalism.
I want to say thank you, for being such a great English teacher with good principles here. Cause some of my friends who are teaching here do not follow that kind of rules. A Taiwanese friend of mine was raped by her Engilsh teacher of cram school. Itās tragic. That was her first time and heās got a wife already. Anyway itās good to know that some people here are being wise and responsible.
Wish you the best.
I had a small crush on one of my teachers back in HS. She was cute, very pretty, liked the movies that I liked, and a recent grad from Columbia. Compared to anyone else I knew at the time, she was the most eloquent and possibly the most intelligent woman I knew. She would pass for a student because she looked so young. Once she asked me if I was dating. But I didnāt think there was any hidden context to that question, and I donāt think there is any, even when I think about it now.
Iām merely saying, yeah its okay to be attracted to a teacher, in fact its not all that hard since the knowledge they possess is usually pretty impressive.
If youāre a teacher and if you have some attractive college or HS students, thats great, good for you, theyāre 16-21, the most beautiful time of their lives. But keep it to yourself!
Its your responsibility to maintain the classroom atmosphere, and if you destroy it with something like a relationship with one of your students, then it will hurt the education of your other students. Other students may feel underappreciated, or feel that they are under uneven odds.
[b]Rule #1) Your primary responsibility as a teacher is education.
Rule #2) Everything else is secondary.[/b]
However after your student graduates, you can probably do whatever you want with him/her as long as s/he consents to it. Keep it quiet and remember Rule#1. You donāt want people thinking youāre a pedophile.