Black in Taiwan

Because Japan is awesome! Rarely does a person go to Japan and not have a great time. For Americans it’s like a Bizarro America, and perhaps America is like a Bizarro Japan to the Japanese, which may account for the interesting relationship the two countries have. I find I get along really well with Japanese people, and there’s lots stuff to see and do and be amazed or bewildered by. Do not leave this earth without visiting Japan.

DO NOT GO TO KOREA! As in all things, you might go there and have a great time, but I have read countless posts on boards that the Koreans can be the most racist bunch of people to deal with, and they can also be violent. Perhaps your chances of a rewarding experience are lower in Korea. Numerous people have been very uncomfortable there and can’t wait to get out. Plus, there seems to be a wave of intense xenophobia (against teachers in particular) in Korea and they do not seem to discriminate between good teachers and bad ones. From my experiences with Koreans in Koreatown I wouldn’t disagree. Have you ever tried to shop or eat there? They can be pretty stank. I considered Japan, Taiwan and Korea before coming here, but chose Taiwan because I have some friends here and the money is better than in Japan.

I’ve also taught in Japan but have only visited Korea, so I have first-hand knowledge of the one and mostly second-hand knowledge of the other.

The Japanese tend to be very welcoming of guests… but again, if you’re not 100% Japanese born and raised, you’ll always and only be a guest. You’ll run into racism–hell, I’m the kind of tall, thin white guy who’s supposed to enjoy these places so much and I ran into couple of uncomfortable incidents–but it’s highly unlikely to be serious or threatening. That said, it is a [i]great[/i] place to visit. I think it’s a real shame that Japan exports only cars, electronics, and sushi because there are a lot of cultural goods that are simply too good to pass up.

Japan can be every bit as fast- or slow-paced as Taiwan, it really depends on what you make of it and how you position yourself. If you’re bombing around town at ridiculous speeds to meet your next private student, it’s not going to be all that relaxing. Start looking for a job now, but DO NOT sign a contract before you get here! You never know what the school, or town, is going to offer, and some places you’ll just not want to be. If you want to be able to relax look for block hours. There’s nothing worse that an school that offers 5 or 6 hours a day, spread out in increments between 9:00-12:00, and 5:00-10:00… you lose your entire day looking for something to do until the next 30 minute session begins. Also, come with cash, a multiple entry visa (it saves time if you have to pop out of the country), and lots of patience. If you have modest expectations and hold out for a decent visa job (so that you’re not trying to always score a better 2nd or 3rd job to push you over the 100k level) you can relax and enjoy the culture.

Maybe the biggest, relevant difference has to do with respect for the rules.

In Japan, the rules are THE RULES, but there’s some leeway. So, as long as you pretty much keep your nose clean, you’re good. In Taiwan, the rules are an annoyance. Outside of Taipei, few people bother with the rules other than to put on a bit of a show when the authorities are around. I’m NOT advocating flat-out breaking the rules; it’s almost always better to be legit. The trick is knowing just how much you can bend the rules… and in Taiwan they’re a lot more flexible than in Japan. What I’m told from reliable, first-hand sources is that in Korea THE RULES are rigid and YOUR BOSS is going to police your activities to ensure that you obey them (surprise visits to your apartment, for example). For now, there are far too many stories of authority run amok in Korea for me to consider it a real alternative. (Again, that’s 2nd-hand info, take it for what it’s worth.)

Mind you, neither Korea nor Japan (save for Okinawa) are all that tropical. You may also want to check out one of Taiwan’s smaller islands, but I have NO IDEA what these are like (if anyone does, I’d love to know). If you’re open to a very different kind of experience, you may want to check out Singapore or the United Arab Emerates (depending on your qualifications). I’ve heard nothing but good reports from these places, and the students I’ve taught from the UAE have all been good guys (if a bit lazy).

The temperature in Taipei does not drop below 10 degree C, so it’s not really that cold. Summers are hot and humid.

Temperature chart for Taipei

[quote]Is Taipei the only place I can get around with public transportation?
If so, is there a part of Taipei that’s a bit warmer? Or at least, is it possible to find an apartment with heating?[/quote]
Kaoshiung also has an MRT, it’s down South and typically a few degrees warmer than Taipei.

Apartments with built-in heating are virtually non-existent, too expensive to install & run and not really necessary or worth the cost, so usually people will just try to cope with the colder days. You can buy electric heaters however (not favoured either by most locals because of the increased cost of electricity when in use).
Many apartments will have an air-condition though which you may appreciate during the summer.

There have been some threads about the islands, related to travel and teaching there. Just run a search, using the island’s name as search term.

Taiwan isn’t NEARLY as cold as New England or the Mid-Atlantic. I think it has snowed in Taipei city once or twice in the last 10 years, and the snow was so thin you had to look for it! So I don’t think that will be an issue. But nor is it a tropical island, This is a sub-tropical zone, so there are real temperature changes season to season, fall being the most comfortable.

Pace of life: Taipei is perhaps the fastest paced place I’ve lived in. Well, I suppose it has slowed down a bit, since traffic is less crazy than it used to be. But this is no slow-paced lounge about on the beach island! You can certainly find that if you want it, especially down south, but by and large, I’d say it’s a fairly industrious place, which accounts for its rapid economic development and urban change. Taipei changes constantly (mostly for the better, IMO).

At the end of the day, Asia being Asia, and ALL foreigners having adjustment issues, I think you might base your decision on where to go less on the race issue and more on, well, where your heart takes you. You already have an “in” with the Taiwan temple experience, and that ain’t nothin’ to shake a stick at. You’ll find that experience will endear you to more than a few locals, since religion is important to many people here. It’s not the “wear it on your sleeve” variety that you find in America, but it does have an important place in many people’s lives.

Also, be wary of blanket statements made about Taiwan, Japan, or Korea. These are all very complex places, all of which are changing at a breakneck pace. Examples:

  • I’ve been to Japan 6 or 7 times. The last time, just a few weeks ago, I noticed a much larger number of people actively speaking to me in English. This isn’t anecdotal or coincidental, since I go to many of the same shops every trip. That’s actually a good sign, since in the past, it was hard to coax people into speaking English.

  • Korea (well Seoul, at least) has become quite a cosmopolitan place. I went back last year for the first time in 5 or 6 years. There are a lot of decent international restaurants. I find the people there quite friendly The subway system is excellent as well.

So, at the end of the day, anywhere in Asia will be what YOU make it. That means have an open mind and a good attitude. My first impression is you already do (which is why I’m spending so much time replying! :wink:) so you’re on the right track. As you know, having lived in P.R., NYC, VA, etc, a place can be anything to you, and your mental filter and way of seeing things will largely determine your experience. That is why you’ll find White folks who love Taiwan, and those who are miserable. You’ll find Black folks who stop thinking about race (like Miltownkid. I remember a lot of our earlier conversations were about race. Then they drifted to other things like Linux and sending photos over cell phones. :sunglasses: ) and you’ll find Black folks who can’t stop talking about race.

Another important thing here is having a good network of friends. Again, you’ve got a leg up through this site. See if any of your temple friends can introduce you to people in Taiwan. (Get their names and cell phone numbers.)

Work: I don’t think this will be a big problem. I like your idea of looking around the island first, though. That’s much better than coming here and frantically looking for a job. Oh, but I’m somewhat concerned about your wanting to make “a lot” of money. The cost of living here is lower than in the US, but I think English teachers make around $1,700-$2,300 a month. Not too sure - maybe someone can verify that.

Language issues - critical in learning about a place and learning to love it. You’ve got mad linguistic skillz (always wanted to say that!), and you’re already learning Mandarin.

Heck, what am I saying? Taiwan NEEDS more high class foreigners like you! Got any brothers or sisters? Send em over! :slight_smile:

[quote=“ImaniOU”]

Now for the bad news. As far as black women who have dated Taiwanese men, if I included myself, I could count the ones I know on two fingers. With foreigners, it doesn’t seem to be much better. On the dating totem pole, black women don’t even register above the grass. [/quote]
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :laughing: LMAO!!!

[quote]
Believing that dating will happen for you, unless you are drop dead gorgeous, is almost like asking for an emotional kick in the teeth. Looks are heavily relied upon by many men here. If you don’t catch their eye, you don’t stand much of a chance. The easiest way to survive Taiwan is to write off your love life for your duration here.
[/quote] Given the nature of TW men, IMO being drop dead gorgeous could be a hindrance. You know, too afraid to approach you because they don’t have language skills, then to add to that intimidation(sp). Sometimes, i don’t think it’s so much look, as it is more a ‘face’ thing. Being with someone that looks good on paper and who would be ‘presentable’ to the family=read-someone who comes from a good background, etc.

I don’t think you guys are visualizing this woman adequately. Fear, choice, intimidation. These things meant nothing. It was like moths to the flame. Any man with an ounce of testostrone would have fallen victim. Heck I’ve only got half an ounce and she sucked me into her vortex like so much space debris…

I havent’t been to this forum in a very long time. Imaniou, I am sorry you have had a bad experience dating here. I am black woman who is far from drop dead gorgeous and I have had no problems at all in the dating scene here.

I have had attention from Taiwanese, Japanese, Singaoporean and other Asian men here. I am now engaged to a Taiwanese man. I already PM’d Persephone my experiences. I just want to let other black women out here reading this know that they don’t have to live like a nun while here. There are men Asian and otherwise who date black women here.

I havent’t been to this forum in a very long time. Imaniou, I am sorry you have had a bad experience dating here. I am black woman who is far from drop dead gorgeous and I have had no problems at all in the dating scene here.

I have had attention from Taiwanese, Japanese, Singaoporean and other Asian men here. I am now engaged to a Taiwanese man. I already PM’d Persephone my experiences. I just want to let other black women out here reading this know that they don’t have to live like a nun while here. There are men Asian and otherwise who date black women here.[/quote]

May I ask a few questions that may have had a part in your experiences here?

Do you speak Chinese?
Do you speak Chinese?
Do you speak Chinese?

I think that has a LOT to do with anyone’s dating success, beyond the curiousity first met, let’s just speak English phase.

BTW congratulations on your engagement! :slight_smile:

I havent’t been to this forum in a very long time. Imaniou, I am sorry you have had a bad experience dating here. I am black woman who is far from drop dead gorgeous and I have had no problems at all in the dating scene here.

I have had attention from Taiwanese, Japanese, Singaoporean and other Asian men here. I am now engaged to a Taiwanese man. I already PM’d Persephone my experiences. I just want to let other black women out here reading this know that they don’t have to live like a nun while here. There are men Asian and otherwise who date black women here.[/quote]

May I ask a few questions that may have had a part in your experiences here?

Do you speak Chinese? No
Do you speak Chinese? No
Do you speak Chinese? No

I think that has a LOT to do with anyone’s dating success, beyond the curiousity first met, let’s just speak English phase.

BTW congratulations on your engagement! :slight_smile:[/quote]

Thanks. To answer your question NO, NO, NO :laughing:
My Chinese is horrible! Wode Zhongwen hen bu hao :laughing:
I get by with a little help from my friends :laughing: I speak and understand very basic Chinese.

[quote][quote=“help”]
May I ask a few questions that may have had a part in your experiences here?

Do you speak Chinese? No
Do you speak Chinese? No
Do you speak Chinese? No

I think that has a LOT to do with anyone’s dating success, beyond the curiousity first met, let’s just speak English phase.

BTW congratulations on your engagement! :slight_smile:[/quote]

Thanks. To answer your question NO, NO, NO :laughing:
My Chinese is horrible! Wode Zhongwen hen bu hao :laughing:
I get by with a little help from my friends :laughing: I speak and understand very basic Chinese.[/quote][/quote]

Damn…I was hoping you’d prove a theory I had. lol

Why not post an ad on tealit.com in the ‘women seeking men’ section and see how many replies you get? I think that will answer your question about dating.

For the rest, I moved to Taipei because it offered a vast improvement in amenities over the other places I had stayed in Taiwan. Now I live just outside the city, and get the best of both worlds. And I save more money than seems likely in Japan.

Racism is everywhere and we all have to deal with it to some extent. But walking around Taipei at night is a lot safer than walking around in any western city, and if you’re any good at what you do you’ll find a decent job.

True, if you come now you will pay more tax during the next six months. But to be honest the first few months will be spent getting settled in and finding the right job so you won’t be earning much anyway. (And a lot of summer jobs tend to be, ahem, taxed at a lower rate.) This is the best time to be looking for work, in fact I would even go as far as to say that you could get your feet wet by working the summer and then go look around the island in the autumn. That’s the best time.

[quote=“Persephone”]If so, is there a part of Taipei that’s a bit warmer? Or at least, is it possible to find an apartment with heating?
[/quote]
I’m not sure if you can find a place with heating, though it’ll probably be rather expensive. The cold here is nothing that a good comforter can’t fix, though you might want to bring that with you.

[quote=“help”]
I have had attention from Taiwanese, Japanese, Singaoporean and other Asian men here. I am now engaged to a Taiwanese man. I already PM’d Persephone my experiences. I just want to let other black women out here reading this know that they don’t have to live like a nun while here. There are men Asian and otherwise who date black women here.[/quote]

I probably am reading this with bias, but you wanna explain how you have been presented with these opporunties? I currently have a friend, who isn’t black, but is having some difficulty in meeting men, of quality. Where did you go? Did friends introduce you? Share your experience or knowledge so that black women don’t have to be ,as you say, Living like nuns…

I wouldn’t recommed Taichung. A guy was here about a year ago and found it difficult to get work because of tthe colour of his skin.

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“help”]
I have had attention from Taiwanese, Japanese, Singaoporean and other Asian men here. I am now engaged to a Taiwanese man. I already PM’d Persephone my experiences. I just want to let other black women out here reading this know that they don’t have to live like a nun while here. There are men Asian and otherwise who date black women here.[/quote]

I probably am reading this with bias, but you wanna explain how you have been presented with these opporunties? I currently have a friend, who isn’t black, but is having some difficulty in meeting men, of quality. Where did you go? Did friends introduce you? Share your experience or knowledge so that black women don’t have to be ,as you say, Living like nuns…[/quote]

I don’t have any magic secrets for dating here. I’ll just tell you my experience. I love to go to clubs but I didn’t go to seek out guys. In fact when I got here I said I was not looking for a relationship period. I had ended a long term relationship 2 years before I got here and was totally not wanting to have a relationship period (long story). But I wasn’t opposed to having fun :wink:

Anyway I just went to clubs with my friends to have fun and dance. I do not dress like a hoochie with short tight clothes. You’ll never see boobs and ass hanging out from any of my outfits. I’m not saying that you have to dress like that to get noticed but that’s just not how I dress. Honestly I did nothing out of the ordinary.

I’m not the type of person to draw attention to myself. I’m a shy person by nature. I’m not a big flirt, hell I don’t even know how to flirt. The guys I met always approached me. Sure it may have been easier for them when they had a little liquor in them but I never hold that against anyone. They may have paid me a compliment then the standard questions “Where you from?” “How long you been here?” “What do you do?” yada, yada. Then conversation went from there. Hey let me get your number, let’s go out and the rest is history. BTW just because you meet someone in a club doesn’t mean they aren’t quality people or are only there for one thing.

I actually met my fiance on Tealit. I put up an ad to find natives just to hang out with, show me the culture or go sightseeing. He answered my ad we met at a cafe for lunch and the rest is history.

Good luck to your friend. You know the saying it happens when you’re not even looking. That’s how it happened for me. Wow didn’t know I would be so long winded.

Thanks again to everyone for replying to my post, both on the message board and privately. :bravo:

In answer to some of your responses, I just want to say that the reason I was considering Korea is because many of my former and current ESL students here in the States are from Korea and they’ve always been so nice to me that I believed their country must be wonderful! I mean, I started tutoring one girl, and, before I knew it, I was tutoring her brother, classmate, classmates parents, and the children of another family they knew! I’ve also found them to be more comfortable with affection than most of the Taiwanese people I know–although I’ve got everyone at temple hugging and kissing now :wink: I didn’t want to go to Japan because I just figured (you know, from watching tv :unamused: ) that it might be too strict and stiff for me.

Because of everything you guys have said, I’m now 99.5% sure (as opposed to my previous 85%) that I’m going to Taiwan. It also seems like I should follow the advice to live in Taipei as opposed to any of the other cities. So thank you, thank you, thank you, for helping me get some peace in my heart about my future. Now I’m just rethinking whether or not I should go there in January, or try to hold out here until next July. (This year is just too soon to leave NYC.)

I do have a few more questions regarding life in Taiwan; I’m not sure my color will be relevant to the answers, but…

Some of the older women at temple have suggested that I save money by trying to find a host family to live with through the YMCA. How feasible is this? Is it even a good idea to try to live with a family? If I do, what kinds of stereotypes might I be faced with? For example, is the main belief about black people that we’re stupid, violent, thieving, messy, or loud? Also, if I live with a family, will that increase the danger of my getting caught or blackmailed for teaching privates?
–How difficult is it for a black person to pick up private students?

Thanks for the help!

[quote=“Persephone”]Some of the older women at temple have suggested that I save money by trying to find a host family to live with through the YMCA. How feasible is this? Is it even a good idea to try to live with a family? If I do, what kinds of stereotypes might I be faced with? For example, is the main belief about black people that we’re stupid, violent, thieving, messy, or loud? Also, if I live with a family, will that increase the danger of my getting caught or blackmailed for teaching privates?
–How difficult is it for a black person to pick up private students?

Thanks for the help![/quote]

I wouldn’t live with a family. That’s for high school exchange students not adults. It’s hard enough living with roomates let alone a crazy family. Yeah you might save money but I’d think about stuff like being able to come and go when you please without waking up grandpa or some crazy house rules they might impose like no male guests in your room at all hours of the night, yada yada. For me my privacy is important and I don’t know if living with a family would give me a lot of it.

[quote=“Persephone”]

Some of the older women at temple have suggested that I save money by trying to find a host family to live with through the YMCA. How feasible is this? Is it even a good idea to try to live with a family? If I do, what kinds of stereotypes might I be faced with? For example, is the main belief about black people that we’re stupid, violent, thieving, messy, or loud? Also, if I live with a family, will that increase the danger of my getting caught or blackmailed for teaching privates?
–How difficult is it for a black person to pick up private students?

Thanks for the help![/quote]

I think that this is going to be an eye opening experience for you. It seems like you have great concern, even some embrassement about being black. The worst misconceptions the TWese would have about blacks are that we are mainly into sports and rappers. Beyond that they don’t have a history of racism toward blacks, like in the states, so they don’t operate from the same frame of mind. In fact, sometimes your color can be an advantage, as I have had many ladies tell me I’m beautiful(strange when they love pasty skin here). Most of the time they just relate to you as a foreigner, who happens to be black. Living in a situation where you are seen as you rather than your color first will alter your reality, for the better.

There are advantages and disadvantages to coming at either time.

Taipei’s weather is a consideration. During the winter it can be wet and miserable… hardly welcoming, and you want to get started on the right foot. On the other hand, I swore off coming back to Taiwan during July and August just because it’s too stinkin’ hot.

I have to disagree with some of the earlier comments regarding the cold. True, it only gets down to 10C (50F), but it’s the same temperature inside and out. You’re never freezing, but you can be uncomfortably cold. Hell, I’ve known locals to drive in the exhaust of buses just for the warmth. Get a good quilt (save yourself the baggage and buy it here), bring fleece and a couple pairs of thick socks. Seriously. I spent a few years in Montreal and love the deep winter cold, but my first winter in Taiwan I bought two space heaters and went searching for an electric blanket.

If you come in January, come late. Chinese New Year is right around the corner so classes will be coming to end and new positions opening up. You’ll want to give yourself enough time to learn your way around, but as there will be very few classes during those two weeks you’ll also have to balance giving yourself enough time against possibly not having an income for a significant period. If you come during the summer there are plenty of camps and summer programs, plus a lot of teachers will be heading home to escape the heat, so during the summer your timing isn’t as important.

LOL! Don’t believe everything you see on tv! Yeah, in Japan “the nail that stands up will be hammered down,” but they also play just as hard as they work. Had a drinking contest with an university prof one night at the local pub with his students cheering him on… Those students ended up putting their prof to bed (for a second time) after he woke half of the dorm by singing at the top of his lungs while standing naked on the balcony. If you don’t end up coming to Taiwan, or find that it just doesn’t suit you, and you’re looking for a second choice, do yourself a favor and give Japan a chance before Korea.

Last point. Stay in a strange family’s home? ARE YOU NUTS?!?! :loco:

There are advantages and disadvantages to coming at either time.

Taipei’s weather is a consideration. During the winter it can be wet and miserable… hardly welcoming, and you want to get started on the right foot. On the other hand, I swore off coming back to Taiwan during July and August just because it’s too stinkin’ hot.
[/quote]

True enough, it can get damn cold, but not for more than a few days in a rwo and then it’s back to 19 degrees or the early 20s. You can wear a t-shirt in January as many days as you can’t.