Blackwater given boot after killing Iraqi bystanders

Politics International Politics
61

Ha ha ha ha ha. :roflmao:

We wouldn’t want Iraq’s security to be placed at risk now, would we, given the present peace and stability (2 million have fled for their lives, hundreds of thousands have been blown up, and the whole area is without question about to deteriote even further into total chaos when massive troop reductions begin in a few months).

Btw, what about the security of innocent civilians who don’t want to be shot dead by a bunch of reckless american mercenary yahoos with no legal accountability?

62

someone funnier than me came up with this:

And apparently the troops in Iraq love it, if you believe Msnbc.

worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ … 85833.aspx

63

That’s a great blog post.
And your image isn’t showing up, but really can’t be missed. So, for now, from your link:

[color=black]“I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.”[/color]
He’ll have to speak much louder for Ali to hear him.

[quote]I met Mohammed Abu Razak today. He’s a well-spoken automotive parts importer, who survived the Sept. 16 incident. His 10-year-old son Ali did not.

Ali was in the seat behind Abu Razak when a bullet hit him in the head, shattering his skull. Abu Razak picked up the pieces of his son’s skull and brain with his hands, wrapped the boy in a cloth and buried him in Najaf.

“I can still smell the blood, my son’s blood, on my fingers,” he told me, looking down at his hands, fingers spread wide. [/quote]

64

Looks like a number of people in the gov’t are gearing up to roast Blackwater.

[quote=“NYT”]Guards working in Iraq for Blackwater USA have shot innocent Iraqi civilians and have sought to cover up the incidents, sometimes with the help of the State Department, a report to a Congressional committee said today.

The report (pdf, link here), based largely on internal Blackwater e-mail messages and State Department documents, depicts the security contractor as being staffed with reckless, shoot-first guards who were not always sober and did not always stop to see who or what was hit by their bullets.
[…]
The report was compiled by the Democratic majority staff of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which is scheduled to hold a hearing on Blackwater activities on Tuesday. That hearing is sure to be contentious now that the chairman, Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California, and other members have the staff’s findings to study.
(Previously, it might take as much as three years just to learn that there was a contract, with Blackwater ultimately refusing to answer any questions to protect its ‘customers’. This drove Waxman nuts, so watch for him and others to make these worms squirm now that they’re on the hook.)[…]

Moreover, contrary to the terms of its contract, Blackwater sometimes engaged in offensive operations with the American military, instead of confining itself to its protective mission, the staff found.

The report also raised questions about the cost-effectiveness of using Blackwater forces instead of United States troops. Blackwater charges the government $1,222 per day per guard, “equivalent to $445,000 per year, or six times more than the cost of an equivalent U.S. soldier,” the report said.
[…]
The Congressional report, based on 437 internal Blackwater incident reports as well as internal State Department correspondence, says that that Blackwater’s use of force “is frequent and extensive, resulting in significant casualties and property damage.” [b]It notes that Blackwater’s contract authorizes it to use lethal force only to prevent “imminent and grave danger” to themselves or the people they are paid to protect.

“In practice, however,” the report says, “the vast majority of Blackwater weapons discharges are pre-emptive, with Blackwater forces firing first at a vehicle or suspicious individual prior to receiving any fire.”[/b] Among the incidents cited in the report:

On Oct. 24, 2005, Blackwater guards fired on a car that failed to heed a warning to stop. In the gunfire, a civilian bystander was hit in the head with a bullet, but Blackwater personnel did not stop. Blackwater officials reported the incident as a “probable killing” but there is no evidence the company offered compensation to the victim’s family.

On June 25, 2005, a Blackwater team in Hillah fatally shot an Iraqi man, a father of six, in the chest. The victim’s family complained to the State Department, which said in an internal report that the Blackwater gunmen initially failed to report the killing and tried to cover it up.

On Sept. 24, 2006, a Blackwater convoy with four vehicles was driving the wrong way on a road in Hillah when a red Opel failed to get out of the way. The Opel skidded into one of the Blackwater vehicles, disabling it. The Opel then hit a telephone pole and burst into flames. The Blackwater team scooped up its people and equipment from the disabled vehicle and fled the scene without attempting to help the occupants of the burning car.

On Nov. 28, 2005, a Blackwater motorcade traveling to and from the Iraqi oil ministry collided with 18 different vehicles. According to an internal Blackwater report of the incident, the statements from employees were “invalid, inaccurate, and at best, dishonest.” Two Blackwater employees were dismissed, but there was no other apparent action taken as a result.[/quote]

65

Those numbers are a bit misleading. Most security contractors, whether with Blackwater or other groups, are ex-Special Forces, Delta Force, Navy Seals, etc. They receive far more training than ordinary soldiers and therefore cost more in total. If we consider that diplomats and businessmen want protection from Special Forces types rather than grunts, I doubt the difference in cost would be very high.

66

Perhaps. It says “equivalent U.S. soldier”, but precisely what they mean by that, I don’t know.

67

The Congressional Research Service puts the figure for deploying one US soldier to Iraq for a year as $390,000. That makes the difference far less than NYT framed it. In any case, I think there are so many security contractors in Iraq because of the massive, nationwide reconstruction projects. Most security contractors protect the employees of those companies and the project sites. I think this issue gets a lot of attention because the State Department and other governmental entities with a presence in Iraq also use them as opposed to soldiers as in past wars.

68

Oh dear.

[quote]Pilot said ‘this is fun’ before fatal Blackwater crash
I swear to God, they wouldn’t pay me if they knew how much fun this was," the doomed plane’s cockpit voice recorder captured the pilot saying shortly before the November 27, 2004, crash.
The account of the crash emerged during a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing on Blackwater’s performance in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In its November 2006 report on the crash, the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that Blackwater provided insufficient oversight and guidance of the pilots involved in the 2004 crash. Dispatchers failed to ensure that pilots followed their flight plan and did not adequately track flights in the air.

The NTSB said the military “did not provide adequate oversight of the contract carrier’s operations in Afghanistan.”

The company’s chairman, Erik Prince, appeared before the committee to defend the firm Tuesday.

The twin-engine CASA C-212, a light cargo plane operated by Blackwater sister company Presidential Airways, crashed in a box canyon well off its planned route from Bagram Air Base to the western Afghan town of Shindand.

[b]“You’re an X-wing fighter Star Wars man,” an NTSB report quoted the plane’s co-pilot, Loren Hammer, saying during the flight – a reference to the dizzying battle in the 1977 film.

“You’re [expletive] right. This is fun,” [/b]the pilot, Noel English, responded.

About eight minutes later, the plane slammed into the wall of the canyon, which was flanked by ridgelines that rose nearly a mile above surrounding terrain. [/quote]

I recall an interview with one of 18 Australian SAS soldiers killed in a blackhawk crash several years ago. After coming out of a hair raising chopper flight the soldier cursed the pilot saying, “my job’s dangerous enough, I don’t need you adding to that.” And yet one senses the yokel culture of Blackwater with it’s apparent complete disregard for Iraqis people as having done precisely that.

[quote]Blackwater shoots first, avoids questions later
Date: October 3 2007
Peter Spiegel in Washington

BLACKWATER USA, the private security contractor under scrutiny for its role in a deadly Baghdad shootout, has sacked 122 of its guards since it started protecting US diplomats in Iraq three years ago.

Congressional investigators said the firings, most frequently for weapons-related incidents, amount to more than one-seventh of Blackwater’s workforce in Iraq. None of the people fired has been subject to any legal proceedings or other sanction, the investigation found.

The disclosures came in a memorandum about the investigation by aides to Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, which is scheduled to hold a hearing on Blackwater today. Erik Prince, a former navy SEAL and Blackwater’s founder, is expected to appear.

The memorandum depicts a security company that almost routinely opens fire in Iraq’s streets, attempts to cover up its transgressions and frequently is protected from censure and prosecution by US State Department overseers.

The memo describes incidents in which Blackwater guards eagerly rush to battles involving US soldiers; plough their armoured trucks into civilian vehicles for no apparent reason; and leave the scenes of violent incidents without assisting wounded civilians.

In the 15-page memo, Waxman’s staff said State Department officials either ignored misconduct by Blackwater or, in at least one high-profile incident, were directly involved in making sure a Blackwater employee, accused of killing an Iraqi guard while intoxicated, was flown out of the country soon after the shooting.

"Even in cases involving the death of Iraqis, it appears that the State Department’s primary response was to ask Blackwater to make monetary payments to ‘put the matter behind us,’ " the memo said.[/quote]

HG

69

The “jump the shark” moment for a world empire must be when it decides it has to hire mercenaries to fight its wars because its citizens are no so longer inclined.

70

Those numbers are a bit misleading. Most security contractors, whether with Blackwater or other groups, are ex-Special Forces, Delta Force, Navy Seals, etc. They receive far more training than ordinary soldiers and therefore cost more in total. If we consider that diplomats and businessmen want protection from Special Forces types rather than grunts, I doubt the difference in cost would be very high.[/quote]

Remember we taxpayers paid for much of that training…

Like any 3rd party/outsourcing, you’re also paying for the OH and other items. 445,000 would be a fully loaded cost.

71

No, no, you’ve all got it wrong.

72

A small step in the right direction. [quote=“NYT”]With the armed security force Blackwater USA and other private contractors in Iraq facing tighter scrutiny, the House of Representatives on Thursday overwhelmingly approved a bill that would bring all United States government contractors in the Iraq war zone under the jurisdiction of American criminal law. The measure would require the F.B.I. to investigate any allegations of wrongdoing.

The bill was approved 389 to 30, despite strong opposition from the White House. It came as lawmakers and human rights groups are using a Sept. 16 shooting by Blackwater personnel in Baghdad to highlight the many contractors operating in Iraq who have apparently been unaccountable to American military or civilian laws and outside the reach of the Iraqi judicial system.

The State Department, which had been leading the investigation into the shooting, said Thursday that a team of F.B.I. agents sent to Baghdad in recent days had taken over the inquiry. No charges have been filed in the case, and Justice Department officials have said it is unclear whether American law applies.

Even if enacted, the House bill would have no retroactive authority over past conduct by Blackwater or other contractors. [/quote]

73

You’ve got to ask yourself why the White House would strongly oppose this.

74

Not real big on accountability or oversight, are mad King George and Jester Dick.

75

Blackwater, hmmm. A brutal, extra-judicial paramilitary police force which answers only to the supreme leader and goes by the name Black-something . . . ? Rings a bell:

"Blackshirts

The Blackshirts Fascist paramilitary groups in Italy during the period immediately following World War I and until the end of World War II. The term was later applied to a similar group serving the British Union of Fascists before the War.

. . . The Blackshirts were organized by Benito Mussolini as a military tool of his Fascist movement. The founders of the paramilitary groups were nationalist intellectuals, former army officers or members of the special corp Arditi, young landowners opposing peasants’ and country labourers’ unions. Their methods became harsher as Mussolini’s power grew, and they used violence, intimidation, and murder against Mussolini’s opponents. One of their distinctive techniques was force-feeding castor oil.

The ethos and sometimes the uniform were later copied by others who shared Mussolini’s political ideas, including Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany, who issued . . . black uniforms to the Schutzstaffel (also colloquially known as “Blackshirts”, because they wore black suit-like tunics with brown shirts), Sir Oswald Mosley in the United Kingdom (whose British Union of Fascists were also known as the “Blackshirts”)"

76

Sorry, but wasn’t there a claim earlier on this thread that all has been peachy fine and all contractors and in particularly the mercenaries amongst them WERE already super-duper accountable and under jurisdiction from the get go?

Why this law then?

77

:laughing: Now, now, spook, surely there can’t be anything of that sort associated with the new praetorians.

Given how much good digital stills and video have done the pr dept. in this war, I’m sure this will provide an all new bumper crop of feel-good war stories. (Amazing how quickly oversight appears on the scene when Congress is doing its job.)

[quote=“NYT”]Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ordered new security procedures today for American diplomatic convoys in Iraq amid continuing repercussions over the shooting of Iraqi civilians by employees of the Blackwater USA security company.

She ordered that special agents from the department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security now ride with Blackwater security details; that the bureau more closely review incidents like the Sept. 16 shooting that Iraqi investigators said resulted in the death of 17 of their civilians, and that the convoys communicate with American military units operating in the same area.

Ms. Rice acted a day after the House of Representatives had voted to bring all United States government contractors in the Iraq war zone under the jurisdiction of American criminal law.

The State Department did not say if its initial assessment of Blackwater operations had found fault with the security company or with State Department personnel working closely with Blackwater in Iraq. Rather, the actions announced today are intended “to improve operational accountability and control,” said Sean McCormack, a State Department spokesman.

The Bureau of Diplomatic Security will begin to record radio transmissions from security convoys instead of just monitoring them, Mr. McCormack said. It will also mount video cameras in security vehicles and “begin archiving electronic tracking of movement data,” he said.[/quote]

78

Fascism is essentially worship of the state and is characterized by disdain for anything which challenges the absolute power of the state such as the rule of law, democratic institutions and human rights. It’s a virus which affects a body politic after some major trauma because it offers the false promise of protection from further trauma in exchange for idolatry of the state.

If I’ve learned anything in these forums it’s that worship of the state and its power to the exclusion of any other real concern is the only thing which possibly explains many of the positions taken here.

Is it a coincidence that the Bush administration, apostles of what appears to be mindless state worship to the exclusion of any other real value in exchange for security, appears to be taking on the historical trappings of Western European fascism? A paramilitary organization with a black motif:

:which considers itself above the law and beholden only to the executive power of the state?

79

A better comparison for Blackwater is the Iranian Republican Guard. I forgot, they’ve been declared terrorists, and hasn’t Eric Prince told us that BW is a patriotic organization?

80

[quote=“spook”]Fascism is essentially worship of the state and is characterized by disdain for anything which challenges the absolute power of the state such as the rule of law, democratic institutions and human rights. It’s a virus which affects a body politic after some major trauma because it offers the false promise of protection from further trauma in exchange for idolatry of the state.

If I’ve learned anything in these forums it’s that worship of the state and its power to the exclusion of any other real concern is the only thing which possibly explains many of the positions taken here.

Is it a coincidence that the Bush administration, apostles of what appears to be mindless state worship to the exclusion of any other real value in exchange for security, appears to be taking on the historical trappings of Western European fascism? A paramilitary organization with a black motif:

:which considers itself above the law and beholden only to the executive power of the state?[/quote]spook -
So what you’re saying is…is that anyone who believes even slightly different than you is a mind-numbed robotic fascist who is unable to think and reason right from wrong because they have a "…worship of the state and its power to the exclusion of any other real concern…" rather than a developed sense of values and morals which does not coincide exactly with your own?

Spook…so all of the people of Blackwater are ‘fascists’ in your opinion?

Anyone who sees reason to feel otherwise is also a ‘fascist’?

Anyone who thinks that this story may have more to it than is being presented so far is, in your words, a ‘fascist’ also?

Its easy to jump onto a bandwagon and start spouting nonsense based on emotion and agenda; a situation such as this makes it even more so. Look at most of the posts on this thread and the comparisons that are being made. Ridiculous and stupid, IMO.

This situation is working its way through the legal system and changes that are deemed necessary are being and will be made.
There is a new method of warfare evolvong and it must be dealt with in new and untested ways. Some will be effective and adopted, some will not will be discarded.

Hey Spook…are the terrs who make their attacks from crowds of civilians and from civilian neighbor hoods also on your sh*tlist of ‘fascists’?