"Nearly 60 percent of 7,500 Europeans surveyed ranked Israel as the country posing the biggest threat to world peace today, according to the poll to be released Monday by the European Commission, Voice of America reported.
The United States ranks sixth on the list, after North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan, France’s Le Monde newspaper reported."
I would say the Europeans have just the right view on things.[/quote]
Rascal,
Would you agree that if the cost of reconstruction of Iraq becomes muh more costly in terms of US$ and/or in terms of dead US soldiers, that there is the risk the US will pull out having done a “half-baked” job?
If yes, do you think the consequences of this are very dangerous?
If yes again, do you think that refusal of $ aid and personnel is a case of: “Cutting off your nose to spite your face?” That is to say, that although it may feel nice to tell the Americans “I told you so”, nevertheless, refusing to help might cause greater danger?
And finally, do you agree that the important thing is that Iraq gets rebuilt?
If so, do you think the feelings that seem to be behind the European public’s preference to refuse either $ or people to aid the efforts are simply an obstacle to achieving the rebuilding of Iraq?
I would prefer to leave Germany and France out of this. They were up front about not wanting to help in the very beginning and in all fairness should not be expected to contribute a dime. Besides Germany is secretly doing a lot behind the scenes to help and they should be commended for that.
That said, the fact that so many of their citizens seem to think that the US is a rogue nation and great danger to world peace show just how far moral relativism has swept through their people. Now America knows what Israel has gone through since 1973. I wonder what it will take before Europe finds out too? One day soon, Germany, Belgium or France may face a major terrorist attack and then the US should do exactly what they have done. Call for a UN meeting, discuss the issue to death in the security council and block any attempt by either Berlin or Paris to go after the terrorists?
I think Germany is coming to its senses. As to Paris… when have they ever contributed to anything really?
Do you think the US should just repeal the Taiwan Relations Act and tell the Chinese that we will no longer support or defend Taiwan? After all, such a move would do wonders for US-China relations, right?
No, I don’t think the US should repeal the Taiwan Relations Act. I also don’t think anyone here in Asia considers themselves a sworn suicide-bent enemy of all things American because of the US alliance with Taiwan.
I’d be perfectly content if, on the other hand, the US stepped back from its codependent ‘friend of Israel’ relationship a step or two and instead became an arms-length ally along the same lines it’s an ally with Taiwan.
I think Thomas Jefferson or George Washington would hold the same view if they were around today to see what a mess we’ve made of their legacy.
Hate to wake you up from whatever you are smoking but Osama bin Laden did not attack the US because of Israel. He attacked the US because it had troops in Saudi Arabia and why? because of Saddam not Sharon. Also, he never mentioned Palestine in his early tapes. Why? He was more obsessed about recovering al Andalus, that would ahem be Spain, and the Balkans. Remember the whole Israel thing is bullshit. Everyone talks about the Palestinians but no Arab I met cares two shits about them really. It is just a stick that they know is effective in beating Western sensibilities to play a passive aggressive game of getting what they want without acting in a responsible or moral way. Otherwise, why did no Arab say anything when Kuwait expelled 300,000 of them in 1991 ditto for another 200K from the other Gulf States and who the hell knows how many from Saudi Arabia. Guess they kind of forgot to bring that up when talking about their Palestinian brethren who are after all the same Arabs as in Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. No one was agitating for a state when they were officially part of Jordan until 1994. What they want is Israel gone completely. Now I can sympathize with the idea that no one wants outsiders coming in and buying up the land and then taking over their own state but guess what? The Turks are occupying Cyprus, the Syrians are occupying Lebanon, this country has that country’s territory. Wars happen, territory gets lost and I don’t see the rest of the world giving two shits about these other places. Only Palestine? Only because of Arab sensibilities? AND all this started before the big increase in oil prices and before the oil was nationalized. Why?
[quote=“spook”]No, I don’t think the US should repeal the Taiwan Relations Act. I also don’t think anyone here in Asia considers themselves a sworn suicide-bent enemy of all things American because of the US alliance with Taiwan.
[/quote]
Come across the straight. I’d be happy to introduce you to an infinite number of folks here who would strike at the U.S. any way they could if they saw the U.S. lift a finger to aid Taiwan in the event of open conflict. Make no mistake about it. Many mainlanders have the same zeal about unification as the most extreme religious fundamentalists.
[quote=“Jive Turkey”]
Come across the straight. I’d be happy to introduce you to an infinite number of folks here who would strike at the U.S. any way they could if they saw the U.S. lift a finger to aid Taiwan in the event of open conflict. Make no mistake about it. Many mainlanders have the same zeal about unification as the most extreme religious fundamentalists.[/quote]
What do you expect when they read garbage like this every day.
Well there is a very big difference between nationalism ala the Chinese and terrorism ala the Muslims and Arabs. When is the last time that a Chinese person blew up a bus, sent planes crashing into civilian targets, use a rifle to engage in sniper activities, etc. etc. etc?
Here is an interesting article about the “differences” between Europeans and Americans today’s New York Times (liberal) by Thomas Friedman.
Well, the numbers are in and the numbers don’t lie. At the Madrid aid conference, Saudi Arabia pledged $1 billion in new loans and credits for Iraq
[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“Jive Turkey”]
Come across the straight. I’d be happy to introduce you to an infinite number of folks here who would strike at the U.S. any way they could if they saw the U.S. lift a finger to aid Taiwan in the event of open conflict. Make no mistake about it. Many mainlanders have the same zeal about unification as the most extreme religious fundamentalists.[/quote]
What do you expect when they read garbage like this every day.
I love it. What a complete load of drivel. The English just gets worse and worse the further you read. Why do they even bother? The only people who read the People’s Daily are mainlanders who are dumb enough to think the English content is good for reading practice and foreigners like us who read it for entertainment value.
[quote=“Jive Turkey”]
I love it. What a complete load of drivel. The English just gets worse and worse the further you read. Why do they even bother? The only people who read the People’s Daily are mainlanders who are dumb enough to think the English content is good for reading practice and foreigners like us who read it for entertainment value.[/quote]
Unfortunately, even Chinese living in the United States believe that stuff. Truly sad. The government there has so brainwashed the people, they have lost all ability to look at the world critically.
I knew the Germans could not remain brain dead forever.
Considering that the source was the chief of the European Union section of a government-subsidized policy research institute, the admonition was fairly extraordinary: Germany must not fall further into a French trap that was turning the Schr
Yeah, I understand your point about France and germany, Freddie… but I don’t think that’s good enough.
The debate is too often framed in terms of the squabble between the US and ‘Europe.’ In so doing, it continually overlooks the Iraqis. The core of the problem is that Iraq needs to be rebuilt.
Now, to my mind, any country that decides not to help in the rebuilding process because it is angry at the US or believes that it is the US’s responsibility alone… well, they miss the point.
Rascal applauds this attitude among the ‘European’ public.
I don’t.
I doubt that Eurpean governments share the same view.
Listen - if these countries are serious about wanting a strong political voice in the world. if they want to frame world politics in their own way, then now would be the time to step up and provide the help and support Iraq needs to rebuild itself. Even if that means continued US control.
Its in no one’s interest to have a poorly done, half-baked solution.
Rascal’s “ya-boo sucks!” attitude may make him feel good, but does it help at all?
I don’t mind stipulating that this is the case. It shws what I believe to be the case - that Germany’s government is perhaps more enlightened than the “European” public that Rascal approvingly quotes. Its just a question of : “Where is the leadership?”
I think the Europeans have precisely the wrong attitude and I expect that their leaders will have to stand up publically and tell them so.
I see exactly where you are coming from on this, but we must all be patient. Germany is waking up from its French-inspired delusion. This is not the time for the West to divide into petty rivalries. The US said it would go ahead with or without them and we should keep to that. If they want to come on so much the better but let it be their decision rather than pressure from the US that makes them realize its in their best interests.
The Arab/Muslim world needs to have a reformation of sorts and a unified West must demand that human rights and democracy are part and parcel of that transformation or something even worse will emerge. The Arab/Muslim world is a basket case. Anyone who denies that is a fool. No argument from me on that. European public opinion… well, is just so much San Fransisco mindless Leftist wishful thinking and feckless political correctness. Its not just the Europeans who buy into this new age bullshit. The lack of intellectual rigor behind so much of the “opinion” coming out of Europe as well as America just goes to show how a good education is no replacement for a strong moral and ethical upbringing. You must read Gunther Grass’s new novel “Crab Walk.” The parallels are most interesting and just go to prove that people rarely learn from history or recognize the same misguided traits when removed from specific historical periods.
That said, Germany is holding debates internally at levels that matter. Many of its leaders realize that it went too far and quite frankly, the US is not asking Berlin to do anything that is not in its own interests. When this realization dawns on the political and economic leadership, what difference will it make what your “average” German thinks. It is what the country will do that will be important. As to France, when has anyone ever been able to count on them and when have they really mattered? Look at the “success” of the French effort in Cote d’Ivoire. Nothing has done more to ensure continued adherence to NATO and US-led security fora than that ridiculous fiasco.
