Hey, nuthin’ personal. 
Seriously, you should see my Facebook feed: it’s terrifying. My default is ‘STFU, idiot – oops, sorry auntie Joan’ today. 
I was perhaps being a bit strident.
[quote=“Ermintrude”][quote=“Gain”]
I apologise if I came out as ungracious or unhumble though.
[/quote]
Hey, nuthin’ personal. 
Seriously, you should see my Facebook feed: it’s terrifying. My default is ‘STFU, idiot – oops, sorry auntie Joan’ today. 
I was perhaps being a bit strident.[/quote]
I have some on my facebook as well. There is this one Italian guy who keeps saying stuff like ‘the UK is going to be the Greece of the north, just with uglier people’ and ‘we will enjoy the sex tourism in the UK too bad that British people are too ugly’. It’s so low.
:roflmao: That’s fcking bonkers.
The scare tactic that failed:
theguardian.com/politics/201 … referendum
[quote]Barack Obama has warned Britain’s voters that it could take up to a decade to strike a trade deal with the United States from outside the European Union.
At the end of a three-day visit during which he celebrated the Queen’s 90th birthday with a lunch at Windsor Castle, Obama said it was wrong for Brexit campaigners to suggest it would be straightforward to agree a new trade relationship if Britain left the EU.
“It could be five years from now, 10 years from now before we’re actually able to get something done,” he told the BBC, adding that the first priority for the US would be to complete ongoing talks on a trade deal with the EU.[/quote]
Who’s we? This guy expects to be in power ten years down the road?
Smart diplomacy marches on - in retreat, while transnational progressivism writhes in its death throes. Say, whatever happened to that Churchill bust?
Working class voters absolutely deluded if they think having a new load of Eton toffs as their ministers
Is going to make things better for them.
The posters and claims that farage backed helped leave win it but they were at heart racist and fraudulent. Makes me want to puke. I know what $$&$ would be saying about us Irish if there were more votes in it.
Long history of that in UK.
Decisions like this shouldn’t be done where a large section of the voters are voting for other reasons. Cameron calls the vote to placate his own Tory right wing and then he’s not going to be around to deal with the ramifications.
I remember the Lisbon referendum in Ireland, first it was no mainly as a reactionary vote then they did it again months later and it was yes. All polls say Irish are firmly pro European. Referendum cannot handle a complex
Question like EU membership.
I do blame EU bureaucrats on not being more flexible with terms of EU membership and being out of touch as well though!!
Ermintrude is talking the most sense here.
Whole lotta butthurt.
I can’t quite say told-you-so because I thought it was a 50-50 chance. But in the long run, the EU was already doomed regardless. It’s just a matter of how long it circles the drain.
Well, there were predictions this could lead to the dominoes falling and the EU coming apart sooner rather than later. We’ll see, The sooner a bad idea collapses, the less damage it does along the way. Never prop up an obvious failure. Just pull the plug, cut your losses and move on.
I found this post.
Not sure if it’s true.
No proof.
Food for thought
Nice … attitudes like that reassure Brexiters they are making the right decision.
Chris, you don’t understand the right and left in Britain. To say that Sunderland is more right-wing than the south is just daft.
Seriously, I can tell you now how every ward will vote and why. And so can the government. Which begs the question, the real question, why are they holding this bread and circuses panto in the middle of Cameron’s term? Do you you think this vote is about whether or not we break with the EU?[/quote]
Chris: I completely disagree. As a Red Tory, I strongly supported remaining, but I blame weak Labour leadership for the Leave win.
The Conservatives were split from the beginning between Johnson and Cameron and the media loved this story. The places where the “Leave” vote was strongest were in post-industrial wastelands, especially in the North of England. The white working class voters in these areas are largely Labour with many voting UKIP in recent years.
If Labour had a stronger leader that could have motivated the ground forces, it could have been a very different outcome in these areas. 
A split Conservative Party and a weak Labour Party leadership were important factors in the defeat. Never underestimate the stupidity of the electorate.
That being said, the Remain side did a piss poor job of selling the positive benefits of remaining. I would have kept hammering the fact that:
(1) the EU is a mature market of 500 million high end consumers
(2) that economic growth is tied to strength in trade in services and immigrants help with this economic growth
(3) the EU, especially in the hinterland areas, has supported billion in infrastructure projects etc. Should have been more local examples/ads used reminding voters of this.
[quote=“keroliver”]I found this post.
Not sure if it’s true.
No proof.
Food for thought
[/quote]
I think apart from the life expectancy, which can’t be true as the UK’s life expectancy is about the same as Taiwan’s, like 80, it’s a real chart.
Classic generation conflict, and the young will have put up with the decision made by those who have one of their legs already in the coffin.
[quote=“keroliver”]I found this post.
Not sure if it’s true.
No proof.
Food for thought
[/quote]
Other food for thought on that, the older you are the more you can compare what UK used to be to what it has become today.
twitter.com/benrileysmith/statu … wsrc%5Etfw
I think this one is more accurate.
18-24: 75% remain
25-49: 56% remain
50-64: 44% remain
65+: 39% remain
[quote=“Mick”]
Other food for thought on that, the older you are the more you can compare what UK used to be to what it has become today.[/quote]
I think that’s quite universal, not just a British thing.
[quote=“Gain”]
Classic generation conflict, and the young will have put up with the decision made by those who have one of their legs already in the coffin.[/quote]
You aren’t doing the Remain camp any favours, coming out with stupid comments like that. The losing group is just whining about racism and calling it a generation war.
^Well there’s hardly any favour that could be done anyways, the damage has been made. 
And is it not a generation war? Younger people chose to stay while older people chose to leave. That sounds like a generation war to me.
I’m not so sure about the racism thing though… was there any racial context in this referendum? I don’t really think so, but what do I know, mabye there was.
[quote=“Gain”]^Well there’s hardly any favour that could be done anyways, the damage has been made.
And is it not a generation war? Younger people chose to stay while older people chose to leave. That sounds like a generation war to me.
I’m not so sure about the racism thing though… was there any racial context in this referendum? I don’t really think so, but what do I know, mabye there was.[/quote]
Immigration was a key issue. Dislike of immigrants is generally, though not always, race-related. The more right wing you go, the more racist the politics get. I’ll leave it to you to connect the dots.
Are you honestly suggesting that disruptions to the economy and potentially a politically induced recession is not going to effect lower income people? It’s just, political?
You’re right, most people are unaffected by politics. That is until politics becomes massively important economically. Given how many times we’ve seen this movie play out, it’s amazing we still have to watch it. Ok let’s wait for the numbers to come in. When GDP drops, let’s wait and see if it effects lower income people. I’ll try to look surprised when it’s obvious it did. 
Suffocated? So the growth rate compared to the rest of Europe is meaningless then?
Today I am proud of my people. The Anglo Saxon shield wall has not broken since 1066.
What I find ironic in this is that rather than accept that reality has an independent bias, that they stand in the way of progress and on the wrong side of history, those who have lost this referendum double down on what got them here.
We see lots of people who would ordinarily claim to be champions of the little people. Yet they have spent years stepping on such people and ignoring them. When the little people finally tell them that enough is enough, the self-professed intelligent and right-thinking punditry then chatise said little people for having the temerity to complain. In an act that is devoid of any modicum of self reflection, they continue with the disdain.
Then, of course, we see all of the usual tantrums. The little people should not be allowed to vote (as if the bien pensant middle class are natural aristocracy who know so much better). Old people – who built the country and have known it as something else – should automatically step aside and quietly abolish themselves. The politicians should not honour the vote because they don’t have to. Brussels, the market, etc. should punish the little Englanders. The Scottish should/will have another referendum and leave (as if anyone would have granted the Brexiters a second referendum if they had not got the result they liked). All of that plus dozens of other little tantrums after being caught out in their hubris.
The best thing about Brexit is not even that the British should be free now. It is that so many of those who opposed them have now exposed themselves for what they really are, and the scales will now fall from a great many other sets of eyes. Some seem to have learnt nothing from this; others will learn a great deal and a fire will spread.
So I thank all of the sore losers, and I am sure that I will have plenty more reasons to thank you yet.
[quote=“the bear”][quote=“Gain”]^Well there’s hardly any favour that could be done anyways, the damage has been made.
And is it not a generation war? Younger people chose to stay while older people chose to leave. That sounds like a generation war to me.
I’m not so sure about the racism thing though… was there any racial context in this referendum? I don’t really think so, but what do I know, mabye there was.[/quote]
Immigration was a key issue. Dislike of immigrants is generally, though not always, race-related. The more right wing you go, the more racist the politics get. I’ll leave it to you to connect the dots.[/quote]
Was it about the refugees? If it was then I don’t know… most of the migrants to the UK are from the former British colonies, like Pakistan and India and Nigeria and whatnot, and that has nothing to deal with the EU. UK doesn’t seem to be taking that many ME refugees compare to countries like Germany and Sweden per capita wise.
The revolt against business as usual actually began with the election of Barack Obama, the silver-tongued outlier who was supposed to bring “real change you can count on” to the system but instead sold out shortly after assuming office, causing the revolution to temporarily fizzle.
The next salvo was the plebeian choice, despite relentless fear mongering from the top, of the court jester as Republican nominee.
Now Brexit, once again defying an establishmentarian firestorm of fear and loathing.
There’s a thirst for throwing off the shackles of business as usual at any price among the rank and vile which doesn’t appear to be diminishing, despite the worst the ruling class and its minions throw at it. While I don’t support all the forms this revolution is taking, I support its ultimate goal, which is to end the endless schemes of the ruling class in an age of decline which are impoverishing, marginalizing, diminishing, tarnishing the many with no end in sight.