You’re right. Dang, and I was almost going to vote for Bush too.
Start you engines folks. Time for another book. The Kitty Kelley book. Bush was a cocaine addict. Snorted at Camp David. Laura Bush was a dope lover.
You’d figure liberals would see this as a sign of STRENGTH. More reason to vote for Bush. Didn’t Clinton do all this stuff?
Next thing you know, liberals will disclose that Bush said “damnit” in his youth.
[quote=“mofangongren”]Fred, please explain how on earth you think America is a “lame” country.
I’d also like to know more about how Bush was able to avoid being prosecuted for SEC violations with regards to Harken Energy. It would appear that Bush has no respect for federal law or for his company’s shareholders and is willing, at the drop of a hat, to throw his scruples out the window. This sort of blatant hypocrisy does not seem to be in keeping with “American” values.
Or perhaps you can explain how he was able to avoid his military service at the height of the Cold War. Our national defense was at stake. Might not have been so dangerous as flying a Thud over Vietnam, but all he had to do was take his medical physicals and help deter the Soviets at a time when they were flying bombers out of Cuba. Cuba was just a few miles away, as you may recall. It would appear to be that Bush simply didn’t care about doing his duty, simple and relatively risk-free as it was, to protect Americans.[/quote]
Classic!
MFGR changing the subject again.
Pinesay:
You got MFGR’s number all right. That is why he has run off. Cannot bait and switch so he has decided to retreat (again) to live and fight another day. Honestly, if this is the best that the Left can throw up (intentional choice of words) then I think we may need to re-examine the Democrat’s deluded view that they represent the “enlightened” part of American society. Honestly, I do not think I have seen such brainwashing not even in communist countries where the citizenry used to spew out the “facts” and “correct thinking” at least with a very delicate tone of irony. MFGR reads these sites and along with his “intellectual” equal Cable Guy seems to digest these things without thought. Another “plus” of our education system I suppose. When did critical reading and thinking become so alien to our citizens? Are they to take a back seat to the “right thinking” proposed by the mindless multiculti left? The very multiculti left that sneers at organized religion while obsessing over tarot cards, fengshui, crystals and astrology? Hooey? I wonder what my favorite pizza topping tells about my religious and political views? Sheesh! The party where Barbra Streisand visits the White House to brief President Clinton on health-care policy all while instructing staff in Las Vegas hotels not to meet her eyes like royalty of old. When will this pestilential woman go the hell away? haha
fred,
You still haven offered any proof that Kennedy was drunk when the accident happened. Assuming you weren’t there, how do you know for certain what happened that night? Since he was neither arrested nor convicted, all you have to go on is rumor and speculation.
The fact is that Bush WAS arrested for drunk driving, and Kennedy was not.
Why do you want to overlook this rather important detail? It does make a difference, don’t you agree?
[quote=“cableguy”]fred,
You still haven offered any proof that Kennedy was drunk when the accident happened. Assuming you weren’t there, how do you know for certain what happened that night? Since he was neither arrested nor convicted, all you have to go on is rumor and speculation.
The fact is that Bush WAS arrested for drunk driving, and Kennedy was not.
Why do you want to overlook this rather important detail? It does make a difference, don’t you agree?[/quote]
We’re toying with you. It’s too easy. This election season is truly a melt-down in the left. There’s no anchor of which any argument is chained to. When one agrument is nuked, you’re on to the next one. What about this? What about that? It’s like trying to swat a humming bird. There’s no discipline in which arguments are followed through to their origins.
If we take your logic that we needed a conviction to know that Ted was drunk and/or fled the scene of a accident letting someone die … and not conclude that it might have had something to do with his “connections”.
Then …
How can people like you constantly infer that Bush got away with all other kinds of “murder” and cronyism because of his connections?
Actually, I believe Kennedy was seen at a bar that very same night visibly drunk and I think that the bar in question did have a record of how much he drank. There were witnesses. He was either at a party or a party at a bar. Either way, he was known to have been drinking.
Now, how do you explain away his leaving the scene of a crime? How is it that his car had the body of a young woman drowned in it and he was never charge? How is it that they were seen driving away and he was in the driver’s seat and he was drunk and he was never charged? I am very confused about these things. Apparently, you are as well…
From the liberal Washington Post… and my mistake Ted Kennedy was charged but er got off rather lightly… the court was most “understanding” of his predicament.
On the evening of July 19, 1969, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts drove his Oldsmobile off a wooden bridge on Chappaquiddick Island, drowning his passenger, a young campaign worker named Mary Jo Kopechne. The senator left the scene of the accident, did not report it to the police for many hours, and according to some accounts considered concocting an alibi for himself in the interim.
At the time, Kennedy managed to escape severe legal and political consequences for his actions thanks to his family’s connections (which helped to contain the inquest and grand jury) and to a nationally televised “Checkers”-like speech broadcast a week after the accident. But virtually no journalist who has closely examined the evidence fully believes Kennedy’s story, and almost 30 years later, the tragedy still trails the senator, with aggressive press investigations revived in five-year anniversary intervals.
Probably more than any other single factor, Chappaquiddick
ho humm…wake me when the good stuff starts…
I have no trouble believing that Kennedy may have been drunk, and I have no trouble believing his family used their connections to get him out of trouble. The problem I have is that this is simply speculation as he was not charged with causing someone’s death nor was he ever proven to have been drunk at the time of the accident. The fact that he left the scene could have been due to the fact that he was scared, so he was not thinking clearly. We will simply never know the complete facts of the case.
However, it seems to me that if Kennedy did use his family’s political connections to escape punishment the people you should be mad at are the people who refused to do their job by allowing him to escape justice. Certainly, Kennedy cannot be held accountable simply because others may have allowed him to commit a crime and not be punished for it.
All of this does nothing to show that Kennedy, however, has not been a terrific public servant who has done his job all these years exceedingly well.
So why does Bush not deserve your indignation with the constant speculation regarding his guard service?
You have one twisted sense of morality Cable Guy. Kennedy got away with threatening and intimidating public servants so the public servants are to blame for not doing their jobs and this absolves Kennedy of all responsibility? I think you need to go to the site I provided and look at the evidence. The bottom of the car (when overturned) was almost at the pond’s surface, ergo it was not like he had to make deep dives to try to save her AND evidence suggests that she survived for nearly two hours after the accident. What say you to this? More evidence of a particulary “efficient” man who went to get his friends to help and not the police? no fire trucks? no ambulance? so he lost his head. Anyone could but not everyone could get out of accounting for it. Not everyone would eventually be elected a senator and given his pisspoor personal qualities then I am not surprised he is a pisspoor senator today. This is not to absolve George W. of his youthful follies which in fact lasted until he was 40 but he gave up the drink, he reformed. Has Kennedy? I don’t think so. That fat bastard drinks if possible even more today. I hope he is tormented each and every night for his evil actions and his failure to take accountability for them.
We create our own hells on earth. Let him suffer in his but leave the senate and the future of this country in more capable and honest hands. You know there was some talk which I will not give too much credence too because of lack of evidence that Kennedy deliberately killed this woman to shut her up. What do you think of that? No proof but then according to your skewed logic it should be up to Kennedy not us to prove the allegations are false.
Look at all the evidence. Look at all the reports. And what pray tell has Senator Kennedy done that you find such particular favor with. Give me three specific examples. I assure you that I will be able to rip most of them apart with the greatest of ease, the greatest of ease…
[quote=“cableguy”]You still haven offered any proof that Kennedy was drunk when the accident happened. Assuming you weren’t there, how do you know for certain what happened that night? Since he was neither arrested nor convicted, all you have to go on is rumor and speculation.
The fact is that Bush WAS arrested for drunk driving, and Kennedy was not.
Why do you want to overlook this rather important detail? It does make a difference, don’t you agree?[/quote]
You mean Kennedy WASN’T drunk, and yet he still abandoned a poor girl to die? That’s even WORSE.
What next, are you going to get him off the “abandoned her to die” charge by telling us that he DELIBERATELY MURDERED HER?
“fred smith”[quote]You have one twisted sense of morality Cable Guy. Kennedy got away with threatening and intimidating public servants so the public servants are to blame for not doing their jobs and this absolves Kennedy of all responsibility?[/quote]
fred,
Again, please offer even one shred of actual evidence that Kennedy threatened and intimidated public servants? Where do you get these wild scenarios? First you claim Kennedy is corrupt (no proof is given) then you claim he was “threatening and intimidating public servants” (no proof is given). You often claim that my arguments are weak or illogical but your vitriolic and unsubstantiated comments about Kennedy are nothing short of utter rubbish. How about some actual facts to accompany your far-fetched comments? Is that too much to ask from someone who is quick to demand the same from others?
I am quite familar with the story so I don’t need to read about the horrible event again. However, it’s important to note that saying the evidence “suggests” something happened is far, far different than saying that is what “actually” occurred on that fateful night. Once again, how about revealing some actual facts, fred, and not just put forth speculation and rumor?
How generous you are, fred. You categorize Bush’s drinking and drug taking as “youthful follies.” (The word “youthful” is even more interesting when used for a 40 year man).
Fred, your comments are getting kind of embarrassing. How in the world do you know if or how much Kennedy may drink these days? Clearly your hatred toward Kennedy is causing your brain to malfunction. Your posts about the man are nothing but empty accusations.
Read the site provided in the earlier post. The site contains all the “proof” including family pressure on public officials, the exact diagrams of where her body was found, how deep the car was, witnesses who revealed how much he drank, his past criminal record and behavior which was not revealed to Massachusetts prosecutors (from DC and Maryland) etc. etc. as well as links to continued misbehavior. Reread the link that I posted. Again, your inability to read thoroughly is the problem in these discussions with you. You are not very capable of presenting ideas clearly and then when you do come up with gotcha! challenges, they are far too easy to answer. Go back and reread the link that I posted. If you still cannot find the information come back with specific questions and I will lead you through them one by one.
Also, while you do that, please also do find any great examples of Kennedy accomplishments that you can share with me. I would be happy to take those on as well. Can you think of any off the top of your head? I doubt it. You just mouth public relations hype that I used to churn out and still do myself. He is really “great for education.” I suppose you also believe that Carter was “well intentioned” and our “best ex president.” Don’t you people understand how “key messages” are planted? The Kennedys continue to have one of the most formidable public relations machines in the US which uses the memory of the late President Kennedy to advance their own personal interests today. Ditto for the family of Dr. Martin Luther King, JR. Hey baby, it’s all about hype these days but those of us who understand how it works (and it does not take much) are not suckers for it like Cable Guy apparently is.
Back to Bush and his drinking, drunk driving, drugs, not serving in Vietnam. All true. All bad. But what is the man like now. Has he reformed? Has he learned from his mistakes? Has he become a stronger person because if it? I think so. That is why I want him defending our country.
Bush has done some stupid things I have done. I don’t think I am disqualified to run for president some day because of it. However, if I continue to lie about them and try to make people think that I didn’t inhale or that I didn’t really mean it when I threw my medals or killed innocient civilians or spent Christmas in Cambodia or … whatever other twiseted half a dozen stories to fit the polls … I should be taken to the cleaners by the American people for being a blantant and unrepentant liar.
Also, Bush may have sined against himself with substance abuse, but at least he didn’t do things that prolonged the war by discrediting his fellow soliders, things that got more people killed and was used in torture in Vietnam.
I’d forgive the guy if he’d come out and say what he did was wrong. However, he and his type don’t think they are wrong. They are LBJ-king of opportunists that sway which ever the wind blows. Today I say I committed atrocities. Tomorrow I say I “misspoke”. “I voted for it before I voted against it.” “I threw my medals; no, I only threw my ribbons; no, I mean I threw some other guy’s medals.”
I need experts to help me keep up with this guy. We almost need a sophisticated computer alogrithm to keep up with the pretzeled shapes Kerry puts himself into.
One more thing. You have so many one-liners that are a window into your soul. It seems to you black is white and white is black.
The older a man gets, the more impressed I am with him for humbling himself and saying he is or was wrong. Doing it when you are 40 is wonderful. Kerry is around 60 and still hasn’t repented. Now that is a real tragedy. However, if he did, I’d consider that spectacular and rejoice (kind of like I did with Zell Miller … although that guy is no doubt seeing the writing on the wall for his own party … going down in flames).
Too bad you look at it from a negative point of view. It’s like were discussing issues with you while your stuck in the alternate universe with the evil Captian Kirk and evil Spock.
Dang, I got to know too. Can you PM me with your demographics? I got to know how you grew up, how old you are, education, religion, favorite foods, movies and pastimes. Pretty please!
“pinesay”
pinesay,
Git up off your knees, no matter how much you beg, it ain’t ever gonna happen! 
(Damn, why can’t I find a woman who is willing to drop to the floor and beg for it like pinesay did?) 
You and fred are 2 of the most see-through people posting in this forum. I’m getting quite a kick out of the way you both try to make it appear that you each have all the answers and anyone who dares to disagree runs the risk of having their intelligence called into question. (I ain’t heard such funny bullshit since I was last in the states and made the mistake of listening to Rush Limbaugh, which BTW, both of you parrot quite well).
Both of your styles of debate is hardly worthy of a junior high-school debating class, and yet you both have such inflated egos that you actually envision yourselves as the part of the intelligentsia of the free-world.
As an example of your debating tactics, you both ask me to PM you so you can find out about my educational background, and even, of all things, my favorite foods!
Wow, where did you learn to debate using such “unique” tactics? 
Sorry, guys, but unless either of you has got great legs, a great ass, long dark hair, dark eyes and are minus a willy, I ain’t sending no PM.
Keep working on your debating skills guys. You both need all the help you can get. 
My post was an attempt at humor … ergo the evil Captain Kirk. Sensitive, are we?
Maybe I should challenge your patriotism too. That always sends them over the top …
Hey cableguy … You’re Unamerican!
I’d guess it has something to do with your lack of elementary analytical ability and morality.
Incidentally, I was thinking about this thread just now, and I came to the sudden realization that even if Bush really had stated that Massachusetts should be “ethnically cleansed” and given over to real Americans, this would merely prove to me that he is a sane and decent man who deserves my vote. I have lived in Massachusetts, for six whole years I was stuck there, and the people are the most twisted bastards I have ever encountered in all of my travels. While I no longer feel that Boston should be nuked, there are only a couple of people for whom I would shed a tear there, and they both live far enough outside of downtown that they probably would be safe if it were nuked at night. Hey, there’s an idea. . . .
[quote=“pinesay”]My post was an attempt at humor … ergo the evil Captain Kirk. Sensitive, are we?
Maybe I should challenge your patriotism too. That always sends them over the top …
Hey cableguy … You’re Unamerican!
[/quote]
My post was an attempt at humor also but clearly mine was much funnier than anything you had written previously. Actually, I don’t take what you and the other predictible Republicans on this forum say too seriously. I know you are only repeating what you’re more well-known brethren, like Rush Limbaugh, teach you to say. 
Again, pinesay, keep working on those debating skills. I see you haven’t gotten any better since your last post. 