Hi,
Does anyone know whether or not these would be the proper Cantonese romanizations?
Yin Yang and the Yijing: Yam Yeung and the Yat-ging
Yangtze River (aka Chang Jiang): Yeung-ji Kong (Cheung Kong)
Jinzhou: Kam-jau
Laozi (Pinyin spelling of Lao Tse / Lao Tze): Laau-ji, Lau-ji or Lok-ji
~Ben (CJ750)
Excuse me here, I’m sure you have a good reason to ask such a question. Canto Romanisation makes the Taiwanese look like very canny linguists.
Frankly, quacks like a duck . . .
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Excuse me here, I’m sure you have a good reason to ask such a question. Canto Romanisation makes the Taiwanese look like very canny linguists.
Frankly, quacks like a duck . . .
HG[/quote]
After all, I am a full-blooded American citizen interested in these languages.
Please tell me, did you ever cross the Yeung-ji Kong in your life?
~Ben (CJ750)
[quote=“Changjiang750”]Hi,
Does anyone know whether or not these would be the proper Cantonese romanizations?
Yin Yang and the Yijing: Yam Yeung and the Yat-ging
Yangtze River (aka Chang Jiang): Yeung-ji Kong (Cheung Kong)
Jinzhou: Kam-jau
Laozi (Pinyin spelling of Lao Tse / Lao Tze): Laau-ji, Lau-ji or Lok-ji
~Ben (CJ750)[/quote]
Do you have a standard in mind that you want to adhere to?
[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“Changjiang750”]Hi,
Does anyone know whether or not these would be the proper Cantonese romanizations?
Yin Yang and the Yijing: Yam Yeung and the Yat-ging
Yangtze River (aka Chang Jiang): Yeung-ji Kong (Cheung Kong)
Jinzhou: Kam-jau
Laozi (Pinyin spelling of Lao Tse / Lao Tze): Laau-ji, Lau-ji or Lok-ji
~Ben (CJ750)[/quote]
Do you have a standard in mind that you want to adhere to?[/quote]
Well, it all comes down to this: Do the people living in Guangzhou and Guangdong really want to preserve their native Chinese tongue that is Cantonese? Even in pre-1997 Hong Kong, the Cantonese tongue was the major tongue.
I was just asking generally: How would “Yangtze River” be read as - by the Cantonese Chinese people? The top submission I had in mind was “Yeung-ji Kong.” Its other name, “Changjiang,” was rendered in their dialect as “Cheung Kong.” If Bruce Lee (he was American-born but moved with his family to HK a few months after his birth) and/or his parents ever crossed the Yangtze, they’d probably have referred to it as the Yeung-ji, for they are Cantonese.
~Ben
My question was more specific. Is there a particular Cantonese romanization standard that you prefer for the words that you asked about. The most common way is what is referred to as “Hong Kong Government” romanization, but it’s not really a standard. Others include Jyutping, Standard Cantonese Pinyin, and Yale.
A common mistake by many western speakers is to assume the 子 (which you’ve romanized as ji) has an initial consonant of the English ‘j’. The initial actually is pretty much identical to the Hanyu Pinyin ‘z’. So the Yangtze would be romanized in Jyutping as “joeng zi gong”. Note the ‘j’ follows the German pronunciation and sounds like the English ‘y’.
[quote=“Changjiang750”]Well, it all comes down to this: Do the people living in Guangzhou and Guangdong really want to preserve their native Chinese tongue that is Cantonese? Even in pre-1997 Hong Kong, the Cantonese tongue was the major tongue.[/quote]How is this related to your original post? Not all of Guangdong speaks Cantonese anyway.
[quote=“Changjiang750”]I was just asking generally: How would “Yangtze River” be read as - by the Cantonese Chinese people? The top submission I had in mind was “Yeung-ji Kong.” Its other name, “Changjiang,” was rendered in their dialect as “Cheung Kong.” If Bruce Lee (he was American-born but moved with his family to HK a few months after his birth) and/or his parents ever crossed the Yangtze, they’d probably have referred to it as the Yeung-ji, for they are Cantonese.[/quote]There’s a lot of influx of Mandarin into Cantonese. While “Yeung-ji” may be the more traditional Cantonese usage, Coeng gong (aka Cheung Kong) is nowadays not uncommon due to Mandarin influence. If one is referring to the Three Gorges of the Yangtze, then the Coeng Gong Saam Haap (Jyutping) is used. No “Yeung-ji” there.
But to answer your original question, I’m going to use “Hong Kong Gov’t” style romanization which most closely resembles English and street signs in Hong Kong:
Yin Yang and the Yijing: Yam Yeung and the Yik-king
Yangtze River (aka Chang Jiang): Yeung-tsz Kong (Cheung Kong)
Jinzhou: Kam-chau
Laozi (Pinyin spelling of Lao Tse / Lao Tze): Lo Tsz
[quote=“sjcma”]My question was more specific. Is there a particular Cantonese romanization standard that you prefer for the words that you asked about. The most common way is what is referred to as “Hong Kong Government” romanization, but it’s not really a standard. Others include Jyutping, Standard Cantonese Pinyin, and Yale.
A common mistake by many western speakers is to assume the 子 (which you’ve romanized as ji) has an initial consonant of the English ‘j’. The initial actually is pretty much identical to the Hanyu Pinyin ‘z’. So the Yangtze would be romanized in Jyutping as “joeng zi gong”. Note the ‘j’ follows the German pronunciation and sounds like the English ‘y’.
[quote=“Changjiang750”]Well, it all comes down to this: Do the people living in Guangzhou and Guangdong really want to preserve their native Chinese tongue that is Cantonese? Even in pre-1997 Hong Kong, the Cantonese tongue was the major tongue.[/quote]How is this related to your original post? Not all of Guangdong speaks Cantonese anyway.
[quote=“Changjiang750”]I was just asking generally: How would “Yangtze River” be read as - by the Cantonese Chinese people? The top submission I had in mind was “Yeung-ji Kong.” Its other name, “Changjiang,” was rendered in their dialect as “Cheung Kong.” If Bruce Lee (he was American-born but moved with his family to HK a few months after his birth) and/or his parents ever crossed the Yangtze, they’d probably have referred to it as the Yeung-ji, for they are Cantonese.[/quote]There’s a lot of influx of Mandarin into Cantonese. While “Yeung-ji” may be the more traditional Cantonese usage, Coeng gong (aka Cheung Kong) is nowadays not uncommon due to Mandarin influence. If one is referring to the Three Gorges of the Yangtze, then the Coeng Gong Saam Haap (Jyutping) is used. No “Yeung-ji” there.
But to answer your original question, I’m going to use “Hong Kong Gov’t” style romanization which most closely resembles English and street signs in Hong Kong:
Yin Yang and the Yijing: Yam Yeung and the Yik-king
Yangtze River (aka Chang Jiang): Yeung-tsz Kong (Cheung Kong)
Jinzhou: Kam-chau
Laozi (Pinyin spelling of Lao Tse / Lao Tze): Lo Tsz[/quote]
Thank you very much. I would prefer to use HK Gov’t. Cantonese (pre-Jyutping) for most of these romanizations, until someone else knows better.
~Ben
I personally don’t like Jyutping, mainly because of the use of “j” to correspond to a “y” sound. I end up saying “joot ping”. It just doesn’t look Chinese.
Hong Kong Government style is also flawed because it doesn’t differentiate between aspirated and unaspirated consonants. But it seems classy to me, kind of like Wade-Giles.
[quote=“Chris”]I personally don’t like Jyutping…[/quote]Me neither.
[quote=“Chris”]Hong Kong Government style is also flawed because it doesn’t differentiate between aspirated and unaspirated consonants. But it seems classy to me, kind of like Wade-Giles.[/quote]It’s like an apostrophe-free Wade Giles. It also doesn’t differentiate between short and long vowels. It seems that by adding these two features with some additional tweaks, one can make it a full fledged standard.
What is the Cantonese transliteration of Shangri-la, a fictional place described in the 1933 James Hilton novel, Lost Horizon, whose spelling (most likely) comes from the Tibetan? I know for starters the “Xiang” part is written as “Hoeng1” (or “Heung1” in Cantonese Yale and Hong Kong Gov’t. Romanization).
We know the Pinyin spelling is Xianggelila (with tones: xiang1 ge2 li3 la1). Wade-Giles writes the Mandarin transliteration of this as H s i a n g - k e - l i - l a. Postal Map: S i a n g k e r i l a . (The “r” part being preserved, as with K i r i n which Pinyin spells out as Jilin). But then again, Postal Map may just have preserved the original Tibetan spelling we all know and hear.
~Ben
Jyutping: Hoeng1gaak3lei5laai1
Thank you! In HKG romanization that should read: “Heung-kak-li-lai” if I am not mistaken.
~Ben
Some more Cantonese romanizations wanted:
Ziyi Zhang
Pinyin: zhang1 zi3yi2
~Ben
[quote=“Changjiang750”]Some more Cantonese romanizations wanted:
Ziyi Zhang
Pinyin: zhang1 zi3yi2
~Ben[/quote]
Jyutping: Zoeng1 Zi2ji4
HKG: Cheung Tse Yee
[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“Changjiang750”]Some more Cantonese romanizations wanted:
Ziyi Zhang
Pinyin: zhang1 zi3yi2
~Ben[/quote]
Jyutping: Zoeng1 Zi2ji4
HKG: Cheung Tse Yee[/quote]
Thank you!
Cantonese Yale: Jeung1 Zi2Yi4
~Ben
[quote=“Changjiang750”]Well, it all comes down to this: Do the people living in Guangzhou and Guangdong really want to preserve their native Chinese tongue that is Cantonese? Even in pre-1997 Hong Kong, the Cantonese tongue was the major tongue.
I was just asking generally: How would “Yangtze River” be read as - by the Cantonese Chinese people? The top submission I had in mind was “Yeung-ji Kong.” Its other name, “Changjiang,” was rendered in their dialect as “Cheung Kong.” If Bruce Lee (he was American-born but moved with his family to HK a few months after his birth) and/or his parents ever crossed the Yangtze, they’d probably have referred to it as the Yeung-ji, for they are Cantonese. ~Ben[/quote]
I think they probably just referred to it as filthy water infested by disease and pollution. But more to the point it can is also written differently as well between Cantonese and Mandarin speakers as well.
Many people like to keep thier mother tongue. It’s usually only in times of goverment repression that languages other than “official” languages are banned or suppressed.
Zhangjiajie (zhang1 jia1 jie4) becomes “zoeng1 gaa1 gaai3” in Cantonese (Yale version: jeung1 gaa1 gaai3). HKGCR writes this as “Cheung Ka Kai.”
Bai Ling (bai2 ling2), or “Ling Bai” as written in the Western order, becomes “baak6 ling4” or “Bak Ling” in HKGCR.
Zheng Jie (zheng4 jie2) becomes “zeng6 git3” (“jeng6 git3” in Yale) or “Cheng6 Kit3” in HKGCR.
Romance of the Three Kingdoms:
Zhuge Liang (zhu1 ge3 liang2) becomes “zu1 got2 loeng4” (Yale: ju1 got2 leung4). HKGCR: “Chu-Kot Leung.”
Zhang Jiao (zhang1 jiao3) becomes “zoeng1 giu2” (Yale: jeung1 giu2). HKGCR: “Cheung Kiu.” NOTE: His alternate given name, Jue (jue2) becomes “gwat6” in Jyutping/Yale and “Kwat” in HKGCR. Do the Cantonese ever refer to Zhang Jiao as Cheung Kiu or Cheung Kwat?
Han Zhong (han2 zhong1) becomes “hon4 zung1” (Yale: hon4 jung1).
Jiang Qin (jiang3 qin1) becomes “zoeng2 kam1” (Yale: jeung2 kam1).
~Ben
Xinjiang = xin1 jiang1 (Mandarin), becomes san1 goeng1 in (Jyutping) Cantonese.
Chiang Kai-Shek = jiang3 jie4 shi2 (Mandarin), becomes zoeng2 gaai3 sek6 in (Jyutping) Cantonese.
David Chiang = jiang1 da4 wei4 (Mandarin), becomes goeng1 daai6 wai6 in (Jyutping) Cantonese. Is also known as John Chiang as “John” was his original English given name; the name “David” came about as his Chinese given name, Da Wei, sounded like “David.”
Ronald Cheng = zheng4 zhong1 ji1 (Mandarin), becomes zeng6 zung1 gei1 in (Jyutping) Cantonese.
~Ben