It would be more accurate to state that 99% of all fights end on the ground.
Meaning when your ass gets knocked out and you fall down on the ground. The End.
Multiple opponents are a lot of work, especially if they are fit, the same size or larger than you and can withstand taking a few
hard hits.
Golly Gee! pick me! pick me!
Actually, its a scientific fact that 73% of fights end on the ground, 26% with tears followed by more drinking and 1% in castration.
For one-legged men, however, I think it is 99%. You gotta admire that 1% of one-legged fighters that don’t go to the ground. Can any of you Tai Chi people tell me how they do it? Is it some kind of rooted super stance or is it just a lot of strategic hippity hopping around? I hope to find and study with such a one-legged man and use his odds-defying power in both me legs to ensure that i will never be taken down on a dirty bar floor, or at least never again.
It’s rooted hippity hoppity. Any well versed practitioner of the art would tell you the same.
Legend has it that there is a man at TaiwanBJJ who is untakadownable.
Golly Gee! pick me! pick me!
Actually, its a scientific fact that 73% of fights end on the ground, 26% with tears followed by more drinking and 1% in castration.
For one-legged men, however, I think it is 99%. You gotta admire that 1% of one-legged fighters that don’t go to the ground. Can any of you Tai Chi people tell me how they do it? Is it some kind of rooted super stance or is it just a lot of strategic hippity hopping around? I hope to find and study with such a one-legged man and use his odds-defying power in both me legs to ensure that i will never be taken down on a dirty bar floor, or at least never again.[/quote]
You’re a superstar!
All it says is that 99% of fights end up on the ground. That 99% does not then carry over to the “possibility to win” (and then mean “a 99% probability to win.”) You are having a problem reading the ad. The ad is not greatly exaggerating anything, but you are greatly exaggerating how misleading the ad is.[/quote]
Let’s read it again.[quote]You see, BJJ is all about effective ground control. 99% of conflicts end up on the ground with the bigger, stronger guy mounted on the chest of the smaller guy, throwing punches on his face. No more! BJJ allows you a chance to neutralize the field and possibly “win” in these situations.[/quote]
I have no doubt that in “these situations” (that is, “the bigger, stronger guy mounted on the chest of the smaller guy, throwing punches on his face”) BJJ comes in handy. But I believe that 99% are in fact closer to .99% if the fighters are aged over 14. So, the false assumption that 99% of all conflicts end up as described above leads to the false promise that with BJJ one can possibly handle 99% of all conflicts. You’ve said yourself that this ability “has nothing to do with a chosen art and everything to do with the amount of effort put forth by an individual” and to this I agree completely.
Here’s my suggestion. Let’s change the ad this way.
99% of conflicts end up on the ground for the smaller guy with the bigger, stronger guy and his friends happily continuing on their merry ways. BJJ, like most martial arts, allows you a chance to at least make them less happy, and even possibly “win” if they are not too big and you’ve been a diligent student. The difference shows when it’s just one big and dumb bully trying to make you feel uncomfortable. Take him to the ground and from there your chances are great. You see, BJJ is all about effective ground control. Given, of course, that you’ve been a diligent student, don’t forget about that part. You might think it doesn’t sound that cool. No. It doesn’t. It sounds REALISTIC. Interested? Come over and try it yourself.
How about that? And besides, would you expect the original post to draw 3 pages of comments? I’m giving you publicity 
Don’t thank me, that’s for free.
As for the private demonstration you promised, that wouldn’t prove anything. You are bigger and stronger AND KNOW BJJ. Afterwards I’d have all rights to complain about the ad telling me nothing about this scenario.
You really should give it a try, Tyio Ma. You will be amazed at how indiligent you need to be in order to grapple a much bigger, stronger guy into submission. You really don’t know what you’re talking about here. Give it a try; attend class for just six weeks, and then report back here on your findings. 
Nay, putting bullies into their proper place is not what I want to use my time for, though it’s good for one’s ego. And if I were getting ready for some serious trouble, sprinting is still the ultimate art to practice. Sprinting and firearms 
I have SOME idea of what I’m talking about. There’s no way I’m going for grapple if the attackers are more than one, no matter how good my ground control is.
In Tyio Ma’s defence: He/She was just challenging the 99% efectiveness claim by the orginal post.
Actually Brazialian Jiu Jitsu only became popular when they started kicking American ass in an arena THAT THEY OWNED.
They had been doing pit fighting for years and convinced the rest of us that putting yourself in an octagon shaped ring and fighting them at their own game would prove fighting prowness.
They sold it and a lot of people bought it.
It’s like the Oakland Raiders going to England and playing against a locally organized team. They would stomp the shit out of them. Then proclaiming themselves “The Ultimate Athletes in the World”
Brazilian JIu Jitsu is a great system. It is. But it’s their fight and they’ve been doing it well for years.
However, it’s very primitive in its approach and application (joint locks and submission aren’t anything more than Judo or Chinese Chin Na could offer) They stress repetition over form.
Hey-an armlock is an armlock-is an armlock.
-which is why it is popular. It relys on agression, strength, experience and athleticism. It’s the Charles Atlas kick the sand in the face method of fighting. Practice three hours a day and you can stop bullys from kicking sand in your face.
I’ve seen huge, muscular martial art- trained giants humbled by skilled guys much smaller than them—and I’ve seen big, untrained guys knock the crap out of very well trained, conditioned smaller fighters who practiced for many years…
Smaller and weaker martial artists lose fights a lot to larger guys, but nobody is around to brag about it. Its when the David takes the Goliath that people remember.
Fighting-in my humble somewhat askewed opinion is about “Chance”-(what Machevelli called Fortuna)-, conditioning, experience, talent and most of all timing.
I’ve watched very skilled western boxers with years of experience, training and talent lose fights to lesser opponents.
I think after a few losses, you realize how “Fortuna” can change the outcome of a fight.
99% is a high claim.
I actually think fighting is stupid and a waste of time. BJJ and any other martial arts are mostly for hobby/sport and health (the way I see it.) One only needs to be in decent shape and have a basic understanding of a MA to effectively whoop the average looky-lue’s bottom.
My favorite MA is Taiji. I’ll actually be starting a class soon… which reminds me, I need to post about that.
Nay, putting bullies into their proper place is not what I want to use my time for, though it’s good for one’s ego. And if I were getting ready for some serious trouble, sprinting is still the ultimate art to practice. Sprinting and firearms
I have SOME idea of what I’m talking about. There’s no way I’m going for grapple if the attackers are more than one, no matter how good my ground control is.[/quote]
I think you still maybe missing the point with BJJ. It rocks. And it does put a bully into their place should they need to be there. But overall, most of the people I trained with, don’t even train with an aggressive mind/attitude. There’s something about the sport and training that encourges people to grow in positive ways.
Bubba 2 Guns – exactly. It’s the pompous “BE-THE-KING-FOR-MERE-NT$200” style of the original ad that made me want to post. Unfortunately, this style is heavily overused in ads, though it only triggers a negative reaction, at least in me. miltownkid’s attitude is much more respectable than that.
And I don’t think I’m missing the point with BJJ. B2G gave an excellent description of it. It rocks in the octagon, it works well against a bully, it keeps one in good shape and prepared for a physical confrontation, but you don’t want to use most of its techniques (ever famous ground control) in a situation where you really need to defend yourself, e.g. when attacked by several people determined to injure or kill you.
Nay, putting bullies into their proper place is not what I want to use my time for, though it’s good for one’s ego. And if I were getting ready for some serious trouble, sprinting is still the ultimate art to practice. Sprinting and firearms
I have SOME idea of what I’m talking about. There’s no way I’m going for grapple if the attackers are more than one, no matter how good my ground control is.[/quote]
I think you still maybe missing the point with BJJ. It rocks. And it does put a bully into their place should they need to be there. But overall, most of the people I trained with, don’t even train with an aggressive mind/attitude. There’s something about the sport and training that encourges people to grow in positive ways.[/quote]
Ya…that magic is called confidence.
[quote=“Tyio Ma”]Bubba 2 Guns – exactly. It’s the pompous “BE-THE-KING-FOR-MERE-NT$200” style of the original ad that made me want to post. Unfortunately, this style is heavily overused in ads, though it only triggers a negative reaction, at least in me. miltownkid’s attitude is much more respectable than that.
And I don’t think I’m missing the point with BJJ. B2G gave an excellent description of it. It rocks in the octagon, it works well against a bully, it keeps one in good shape and prepared for a physical confrontation, but you don’t want to use most of its techniques (ever famous ground control) in a situation where you really need to defend yourself, e.g. when attacked by several people determined to injure or kill you.[/quote]
I’ve won and lost fights that were in situations that were totally out of control. In real life situations the only control you have is knowing when to tuck tail and run. Live to fight another day.
Now that I’m a tad older, I agree with Miltownkid - fighting is a waste of time. But there’s still a fire inside my gut (could be heartburn) for a good tussle.
Most of all - as I mentioned above - it all comes down to confidence. I used to get a kick out of a saying that used to rile me up to no end which was: You do not greet death. You punch him in the throat repeatedly as he drags you away.
“They stress repetition over form.”
I for one can’t imagine how one can get good form without repetition.
Now take this discussion to another thread. This is the events forum.
It is ridiculous to believe there is some magical technique ‘out there’ that will protect one against a gang determined to kill you. There are kinds of techniques that claim to grant this sort of power to those who learn them, but to date, I have never seen any of these perform what has been claimed about them - and I have looked.
The idea that BJJ is some how inferior in such a situation is equally ridiculous. BJJ is devastating. It works in the ring because it works. The best preparation for a fight in general is always the best kind of preparation for the worst situation possible. Anyone who believes otherwise hasn’t been face-to-face with the best kind of preparation.
Well, it appears that you haven’t looked hard enough, then.
[quote][url=http://images.google.com.tw/imgres?imgurl=http://arago4.tnw.utwente.nl/stonedead/publications/sketches/fear-no-man.gif&imgrefurl=http://arago4.tnw.utwente.nl/stonedead/publications/sketches/fear-no-man.html&h=783&w=612&sz=230&hl=zh-TW&start=1&tbnid=ZBXhrNlusHfvoM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfear%2Bno%2Bman%2Badvertisement%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dzh-TW%26sa%3DG]I’ll make you a MASTER of LLAP-Goch, …the Secret Welsh ART of SELF DEFENCE that requires NO INTELLIGENCE, STRENGTH or PHYSICAL courage. The FANTASTIC SECRETS of the SECRET world-famous method of SELF DEFENCE, kept secret for centuries because of their DEADLY POWER to MAIM, KILL, SMASH, BATTER, FRACTURE, CRUSH, DISMEMBER, CRACK, DISEMBOWEL, CRIPPLE, SNAP and HARM are now revealed to YOU in the English Language by a LLAP-GOCH master AT HIS OWN RISK, PROVIDED you promise to MAIM, CRUSH, DISEMBOWEL and so on ONLY in SELF DEFENCE. (This is just to cover ourselves, as you will understand.)
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When presented with multiple attackers, and no offensive weapons are at hand, I strongly advocate using the “Converse Kata.” Sometimes known as the “AllStar Shuffle.”
Thank you for pointing this out. I stand corrected.
The whole multiple attacker shtick depends in large measure on how you train. I studied at least one style were there was no sparring whatsoever (good luck in a fight but the forms sure are pretty), and another (poekoelan tjimindi – an offshoot of Indonesian pentjak silat) where we did a great deal of floor fighting and regularly sparred two on one. We did other crazy shit there like alternate slow and fast sparring, sparring in the dark, having all the students line up and come at you in rapid succession with whatever strike or move they want. Couldn’t walk straight after class half the time. I didn’t stay with poekoelan for very long, but my kid brother did. Several years down the line, he used to say three attackers was no problem so long as he could get his back to a wall, four if he had his keys handy. He was one badass motherfucker. Taught hand-to-hand in the Navy, now a state cop. But he also has a thing for guns and tasers and pepper spray and picking fights and shit.
Of course if your attackers happen to be streetfighters, your odds drop considerably. If one has a gun and isn’t in close where you can disable him, you may well end up with a hole in your head. If they’re drunken doofuses, half the time all you need to do is to take out a knee, backfist a nose, and knifehand a throat. Trust me, it’s doable.
As with anything, once you decide what you want, shop around. If you’re determined to have streetfighting against multiple attackers, you’re really going to have to shop around, because most styles simply don’t offer it, and those that do will probably put you in a world of hurt. And odds are you’ll do far more fighting at the school than you ever will in the street. Case in point, even with scraps here and there, the worst I ever had it was getting my jaw dislocated in a fucking tournament. I won because my douchebag opponent was disqualified - I dumped the trophy in the trashbin outside the hospital, and now I have a lifetime of TMJ to look forward to. Self defense is naturally the big initial draw for most, and say what you will, it is an inevitable benefit whose success is only ever going to be at best probable. I gave up on the tourney circuit (would’ve stayed on had I planned to teach) and instead trained for health and spirituality – those were always the biggest benefits for me anyway, and a different reward system altogether.
BJJ sounds like fun. Most styles are. YMMV.
Tigerman taught me llap-goch. I used it on a Taxi driver who overcharged me by 5nt. That disemboweling technique is superb. Much more efficient than my previous method and not even requiring the use of a weed wacker. Thus I no longer have the inconvenience of hauling around that cumbersome weedwacker. It is so hard to find a good weedwacker to match my outfits.
The only flaw I have found with this amazing workout/ life style/ self defense method/ welsh art/ any other word I can think of/ ect is that I have suddenly found myself surrounded by hoards of women trying to put my hands in their blouses. I suppose if I had that extra Y chromosome they warned me about I wouldn’t find this to be so problematic…
