[quote=“TainanCowboy”]
Foreign English teachers not necessarily better, experts say, well there you have it. “Experts” are saying the foreigners are no better.[/quote]
Try RTFA. They are saying that not all foreigners teaching English are any better. That’s true, without a doubt.
[quote]Shen told the China Post that most of the foreign teachers take a more relaxed and easy attitude in class while some parents expect a more serious way of teaching.
Yu experienced the same difficulty, and he tried to solve the problem by setting teaching schedules for foreign teachers.
“About 60 percent of the foreign teachers are not qualified,” said Yu. “it’s like they are casually playing with the kids.”[/quote]
Well, you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. You can’t please everybody. The kids expect the foreign teacher to be fun and games and “active” (whatever that buxiban-ese word means), and will complain about “bad teacher” if they aren’t constantly having fun in class. The parents expect the foreign teacher to be “serious”. Aaaargh. Making up your minds, people - you can’t have it both ways.
Foreign teachers take that “relaxed and easy attitude” because that’s what every buxiban I’ve ever worked for has demanded from me - to be a fun teacher. The #1 quality that most schools are looking for is getting along with the kids. The theory is that if you bond with the kids and get them excited by “casually playing” with the kids (which isn’t nearly as easy it looks - balancing being an entertainer and a teacher at the same time, educating while making it look fun is a tough act), the kids will want to learn English, not just because they’re forced to attend class. If you don’t play games and try to a “more serious way of teaching”, the kids are going to yaaaawwwwwn - “boring teacher! hen wuliao!”
The parents just don’t know what they’re talking about, most of the time. Many are stuck in the “learning by rote, be quiet and sit up straight and don’t think in class, just listen whatever the teacher says verbatim” extremely dry and boring style of learning so popular in East Asia. That’s the way they learned as students and by gum that’s the only way. They don’t understand that kids are kids and other methods of teaching are more effective with that age group.
Gee, until the US intervened, it was illegal for Afghanistani women to leave their homes unless accompanied by a male relative, a crime which was often punished by death. There’s a modern law for you, Vannyel. But since it’s not your country, I guess it was morally okay for women to be stoned to death for trying to take their children for medical treatment. At least on Planet Vannyel.
If you don’t have an opinion on racism and have already informed everyone that they are not entitled to opinions on the matter because we are not citizens, then why do you keep posting on this thread? Is the term “trolling” completely beyond your comprehension? Do you think your trolling is worth regurgitating over and over just in case somebody on here missed it?
You believe that as non-citizens, we have no right to complain about how things are done in our country of residence.
That being said, you may now leave this thread, feeling smug about having expressed your opinion, and let those who feel that racism, no matter where it happens, is wrong, continue in our discussion without your condescending remarks.
Don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]Gee, until the US intervened, it was illegal for Afghanistani women to leave their homes unless accompanied by a male relative, a crime which was often punished by death. There’s a modern law for you, Vannyel. But since it’s not your country, I guess it was morally okay for women to be stoned to death for trying to take their children for medical treatment. At least on Planet Vannyel.
If you don’t have an opinion on racism and have already informed everyone that they are not entitled to opinions on the matter because we are not citizens, then why do you keep posting on this thread? Is the term “trolling” completely beyond your comprehension? Do you think your trolling is worth regurgitating over and over just in case somebody on here missed it?
You believe that as non-citizens, we have no right to complain about how things are done in our country of residence.
That being said, you may now leave this thread, feeling smug about having expressed your opinion, and let those who feel that racism, no matter where it happens, is wrong, continue in our discussion without your condescending remarks.
Don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.[/quote]
I was asked a question (or to clarify) and I responded. Is there something about me posting that makes you just want to throw in your two-cents worth and become a condescending (XXXX). You obviously can’t read and have trouble comprehending complex sentences because you don’t understand the definition of morals, you select passages out of context, and you continue to attempt to turn this into something personal for no logical reason whatsoever. Also because I have never said anyone wasn’t entitled to their opinion and I have expressed mine.
For your information, it isn’t Planet Vannyel…it’s called the real world and you might want to consider getting used to it in case you ever decide to step outside your fantasy world. Whining about the situation in Taiwan isn’t changing anything.
If you consider the truth condescending then I feel sorry for you.
As for your Afghanistani example, there are plenty of other countries around the world in need of the enlightened U.S. to step in and help them sort out their internal affairs (and no I don’t condone stoning women either but then again I don’t condone invading a sovereign nation without just cause). I am sure most of the Muslim women in the world would love for the U.S. to come in and rescue them.
But you are right, I do have better things to do…have a great day. 
You obviously need some work on your own comprehension skills.
Especially in the area of fact and opinion.
Fact: racism exists in Taiwan.
Opinion: I think it’s wrong.
I’ll make you some flashcards for the next time you wish to try and put your two cents into a debate.
Planet Vannyel is where you believe things are morally okay because there’s a law that supports it. The real world is where there are people who have problems with this opinion so they express their own views and attempt to change things rather than sitting on their ass and accepting things as they are.
There are ways to deal this issue. Telling everyone “It’s not your country so stop complaining” isn’t one of them.
I do feel empathy for your situation where you were supposedly discriminated against for a job because you were the wrong ethnic group. To think, three years ago, I almost opted for several buxibans with high teacher turnovers who rejected me because I was black and wound up with a school who not only hired me based on my merits rather than appearance, but also turned out to be one of the best small, private English-immersion schools in Taipei, especially judging the fact that its largest student body comes solely from referrals by families with children who have attended the school and that the school has never had a need to advertise itself.
I think I am far better off than I would have been with one of those schools that are more worried about what pictures go in their brochures than about what the kids are learning.
:bravo:
I haven’t heard better news all day.
Vannyel, the discussion is essentially about whether it is right or wrong or excusable to discriminate on the basis of race in the hiring of teachers. Your line seems to deny the validity of the whole discussion, in that because we are in Taiwan and racial discrimination exists and we can do nothing about it we should not discuss it. That’s an easy thing to say. Let me provide a pro-forma for you for future use in case anyone ever posts anything on this board again:
We are in Taiwan and ______________________ exists and we can do nothing about it therefore we should not discuss it.
HTH.
a couple of points on the china post article:
“We invite parents to come to class and see how teachers lead the class, and they don’t really like foreign teachers,” said John Shen, director of John Duncan, a language school in the at Jenai district of Taipei.
maybe if you hired some teachers, and not just the latest waiguoren whitey who stepped off the plane and will work the cheapest … foreigner = teacher HA HA.
or perhaps as has been stated previously, the parents are just lost without the grammar-translation based teaching style that they were likely exposed to.
and perhaps the inability to understand the class b/c the language is over the parent’s head comes into play - rarely have i heard of a parent who has a decent command of english start to vociferously complain in the middle of a class. they tend to offer suggestions at an appropriate time, some of which can be useful, especially for newbies. this is only my experience, mind you.
finally, i have seen a number of foreigners who are interested in actually teaching english and making students think be told to become more of a “coddler”, who supplies all the answers for the kids to mimic. at some point, no one will be there to hold their hand while the student has to answer questions. i prefer that my students get used to this before they reach 20 years of age.
Some foreign teachers travel to Taiwan and stay temporarily," Liu said. “It’s not good for the kids to have to adjust themselves to new teachers all the time.”
while constantly high rates of teacher turnover might be difficult for students, in terms of forming trust and a willingness to open their mouths, i think that getting a new perspective, and hearing different accents are pluses for most taiwanese students of english. some students absolutely refuse to speak to another foreigner, even the sub teacher when i piss off on vacation. i try to make my students talk to some of the other teachers as part of their homework, just to get over the fear of doing so.
and really, it’s pretty tough to come up with all new activities and jokes for a class that you’ve taught for 6 + years. some of those kids (young adults) are probably wondering what they did in a past life to be stuck with me as long as they have been 
That China Post article is obviously a blowjob. Why would you take it seriously? It was either written because 1) either a school or gov’t organization bought an ad and has an axe to grind with foreign teachers or a PR score to fix 2) the authors are teen-aged or 20-something affluent Chinese-Americans (probably interns who got the “job” because their parents know the owners) on the rampage against what they see as the unfairness of lowerclass white people being given a free ride. Any of the profound quotes in the article are about 15 years too late.
[quote=“Dr Doom”]Vannyel, the discussion is essentially about whether it is right or wrong or excusable to discriminate on the basis of race in the hiring of teachers. Your line seems to deny the validity of the whole discussion, in that because we are in Taiwan and racial discrimination exists and we can do nothing about it we should not discuss it. That’s an easy thing to say. Let me provide a pro-forma for you for future use in case anyone ever posts anything on this board again:
We are in Taiwan and ______________________ exists and we can do nothing about it therefore we should not discuss it.
HTH.[/quote]
You obviously have not bothered to read my posts. At no point did I say ‘we should not discuss’ anything. Unlike some others, I totally support the marketplace of ideas although I must admit it works a little better when everyone supports everyone else’s right to have an opposing opinion. 
Thanks your the nice little statement; however, since I don’t agree with it, why should I use it? 
Yes it was quite humorous but unfortunately someone out there will take it seriously. 
How does the statement “It’s not your country so stop bitching and deal with it” add to and encourage the discussion on whether or not it’s right for Taiwan to discriminate against foreign teachers? I’m eager to hear how you explain this one.
In order to get respect, you have to give it. Going on a thread and telling everyone discussing on it to get over their cultural biases and stop complaining is no way to go about earning respect, not from me and obviously not from other people on here who are also tired of your trolling. you’ve stated your opinion and obviously don’t think this topic needs any further discussion so your reason to be on this thread, at least, is finished.
Bu-bye.
Continuing on the topic, I have seen parents who were a little skeptical about the CBC teachers at my school and about me and my school just step back and let them see how well their children were learning and how happy they were. Some of my more skeptical parents from three years ago are some of my biggest fans now and still give me cards and gifts even though I haven’t taught their children in three years. All it takes is educating parents that skin color has nothing to do with who a person is or how good of an English speaker they are. Unfortunately, not many schools here are willing to take the risk of losing a little money in order to gain good-quality non-white teachers and opening the minds of parents. It’s totally a catch-22, but only because the schools here let it be that way.
I hardly think fabricating statements makes you deserving of respect, now does it? If you had taken the time to do a search you would see I have never made the statement “It’s not your country so stop bitching and deal with it.”
Is there really some reason you feel compelled to continue your personal attacks against someone who you’ve never met, know very little about? Is there something about you that makes your opinion more valid than anyone else’s (or mine in particular)?
And to keep on topic, aside from checking qualifications (which can be forged) prospective customers only have what they can see to go on. Also past personal experiences. Most also don’t have the time or want to spend the time sitting around the classroom to see how you teach. There is also a thing called probability. ‘If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck’ = ‘If it looks like a native English speaker, acts like a native English speaker, it’s probably a native English speaker’
Naturally there are exceptions to every thing so if you’re only going to point them out, save your time. I am aware.
[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … ht=#230178](Caucasian teachers only.....?
[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … ht=#230554](Caucasian teachers only.....?
You interrupt the dialogue by quoting a website about the definition of morality and then clarify your purpose for doing so by saying you refuse to judge the Taiwanese because it’s not your system. If you have no interest in expressing your opinion on what’s wrong with them doing it, then why, oh why, do you insist on blabbing on and on and on and on…
You’ve stated your opinion: you have no opinion on whether it’s right or wrong.
Now go away.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]Caucasian teachers only.....?
[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … ht=#230554](Caucasian teachers only.....?
You interrupt the dialogue by quoting a website about the definition of morality and then clarify your purpose for doing so by saying you refuse to judge the Taiwanese because it’s not your system. If you have no interest in expressing your opinion on what’s wrong with them…[/quote]
I interrupt…what are you…adults at the big table…? 
So you assume something is wrong with them.
Just because I refuse to be a holier than thou asshole doesn’t make me wrong.
And I should go away because you don’t like someone to disagree with you. Why don’t you go away?
Sorry but your opinion is no more valid than mine. 
What opinion is there to disagree with? You don’t have an opinion on the matter because you refuse to judge the Taiwanese. So be it. Now there’s no need for you to participate with people who do feel a need to make their own judgments on this stance. What’s so hard about that to understand?
Isn’t that Jesus’s job? Passing judgment…does He know you are usurping his authority?
I guess it does require the hand of some self-righteous Christians to deal with these heathens. Is your own house in order?
[quote=“Vannyel”]There is also a thing called probability. ‘If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck’ = ‘If it looks like a native English speaker, acts like a native English speaker, it’s probably a native English speaker’
[/quote]
Unfortunately, because of the ingrained racism of many people here, this is exactly the problem. They think that all white people are native speakers of English, and that non-white people can’t be. If it looks like a white person, acts like a white person, it’s definitely an American. My Chinese teacher has been teaching a German national for years. She knows he speaks German, but she still refers to him as an American when she’s talking to others about him, and she also thinks he’s be a fine English teacher.
You assume I am of the Christian faith. Not even the last religion I followed before I gave up on organized religion all together. By the way, it’s God’s job. Get your “facts” straight.
But then there you go again getting off topic yet again, as if you had anything to say of the topic in the first place.
Anyway…
The Taiwanese usually ask me if I am Indian. I am beginning to wonder if it’s because I have dark skin, but speak English. Lord knows dark-skinned people cannot be native speakers, even to some foreigners like the woman at CKS Memorial Hall whose reaction to me saying hello to her was “You can speak English?”
My own small contribution to correcting the false assumption that all white people speak English is that when I go into restaurants like Friday’s or Chili’s and they automatically give me an English menu, I tell them that I don’t understand English, and let them know that there are a lot of white people who can’t speak English … it’s a lie (at least for me), but it does help to educate them.
[quote=“bababa”][quote=“Vannyel”]There is also a thing called probability. ‘If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck’ = ‘If it looks like a native English speaker, acts like a native English speaker, it’s probably a native English speaker’
[/quote]
Unfortunately, because of the ingrained racism of many people here, this is exactly the problem. They think that all white people are native speakers of English, and that non-white people can’t be. If it looks like a white person, acts like a white person, it’s definitely an American. My Chinese teacher has been teaching a German national for years. She knows he speaks German, but she still refers to him as an American when she’s talking to others about him, and she also thinks he’s be a fine English teacher.[/quote]
It is a very strange thing. Over the years I’ve sent my CV to a number of places in Taiwan, and in China, and my CV clearly shows seven years of study of Chinese language at undergraduate and postgraduate level. Nonetheless, Chinese people fall off their chairs when they find out I can read or write Chinese.
I have noticed over the years however that taxi drivers no longer assume I am American. Although I did get asked one morning at 6:30 on my way to work in a blue pinstripe suit, double cuffs, and carrying leather briefcase whether I was an English teacher. Obviously I replied yes. I felt like adding that I always dress like the chairman of the Bank of England for my early morning kindergarten classes. Bizarre.
I’ve figured Vannyel out. He doesn’t actually believe anything he says. You’ve noticed that everything he says is deliberately polar opposite what everybody else says, even if going against the conventional wisdom means arguing the clown’s wisdom? If you say, “The Earth is a globe,” Vannyel would link to a Flat Earth Society website and say, “It’s just your cultural perspective that the Earth is round, you shouldn’t impose your Western imperialistic ideas of science and basic physics upon people in Taiwan by saying this, and besides, in the U.S.A. lots of people believe that the moon landings were faked.”