Causes of Anti Americanism

Politics International Politics
41

You’ve taken those in isolation. GDP is similar to that of Europe, but look at the state of the US’s economy. It’s like saying that Lehman Brothers was top dog because of the money that passed through its doors. It means nothing without the rest of the picture. The US economy is terrible–not top dog in any way. Debt is massive. You’re living way beyond your means, Lehman Brothers style, no?

I’m really not sure how the US’s military compares to others’ in terms of size, but if its military is so good, why such a poor success rate unless supported with alliances?

Foreign policy is definitely strong but weakening rapidly. I’m not so sure about culture though–that would be a philosophical debate. :laughing:

I am interested, though. In what way is American culture dominant? Is it just that many people eat at McDonald’s and drink Coca-Cola? What else is there? (I admit I’m ignorant in this regard.)[/quote]
Films, TV, American English (ideas), research papers, pop culture (plenty of local pop here, but rather more American than German), fast food, IT, fashion (jeans), shopping malls, the consumerist lifestyle.

It’s so dominant you don’t even see it.

42

Maybe this is the root of the problem: that America believes itself to be number one and its culture worthy of spreading to other parts of the world, in stark contrast to how the rest of the world may look at things. If I was going to willingly adopt culture or control from another country, I would need to believe that that country was a model for success, which the US clearly isn’t, with a huge percentage of the population in poverty or jail, a flawed educational system, and an economy on the brink of self-destruction. Even if the US really was the top dog in a few areas, a smart person would see at what cost, and whether that position was sustainable. Again, it’s like me maxing out my credit and getting my kids to turn to serious crime in order to have the biggest but most gaudy house on the block; it may look good, but anyone with common sense can see that it is a model for failure, not success.

43

[quote=“fruitloop”]
Films, TV, American English (ideas), research papers, pop culture, fast food, [/quote]
Huh? Brit films and TV are SO far ahead of the American stuff that it’s not even funny! I can’t remember that last time I watched American TV or even an American Hollywood-style movie, as they tend to be so utterly shite as to be completely unwatchable. Indie films from the states or Britland or indeed most anyplace else is a different story, and there, the playing field is much more level. American ideas? Whatever. I don’t know about that but I know that there are smarts and there are rabid kooks on both sides of the pond. Far more on the wrong side, though, from where I stand. :wink: Pop culture? Listen to Rick Dee’s top 40 on ICRT any night of the week for your U.S. shitty pablum. Then listen to the UK top 40 on a Sunday for some FAR more interesting music. And THAT, my friend, hasn’t changed since I was a teenager. Fast food? You have GOT to be kidding! Fish suppers, kebabs, pakora, bahjis, tikka masala. That’s fast food. Its about 100,000,000,000 times superior to anything the Yanks have come up with. Except enchiladas and tacos. Oh, wait… :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
But yeah, there’s no doubt. The Americans dominate. 400 million of the fat bastards can’t ALL be wrong, right? :wink:

44

I was about to jump in and have a screaming fit over your false accusations… and then I realized that you’re right.

God Bless America just ain’t the country that it used to be.

45

Let’s face it, after all. Sure, you can kill any or all of us at the drop of a hat, but the best you can hope for is that people might find you “quaint” in a country mouse colonial cousin kind of way. :wink:

46

Hold your horses. I’m certainly not saying the US economy is fine, but let’s look at European countries both within the EU and out (such as Iceland). The PIIGS are an absolute nightmare, the UK is having some major issues, there are plenty of Eastern European states that are in serious shit, and then of course there’s the whole non-EU Balkans that probably have more in common with the Middle East or Africa than anywhere civilised in the world.

This is the whole point though. When people compare Europe with the US they always cherry pick Sweden vs Alamaba. A fairer comparison would be like this:

  1. Rich, highly educated, etc. – Sweden vs Connecticut
  2. Fucked economies – Portugal vs Nevada
  3. Arse backwards – Bosnia Herzegovina vs Alabama

Now who’s looking brilliant and who’s not? On 1., Europe might be in front, but not nearly as much as America would be in front on the other two, especially 3. Christ, even Sarah Palin couldn’t create a place as fucked up as Southeast Europe. I don’t remember there being mass graves and peace keepers anywhere in the US within the past couple of decades. Even the worst Deliverance-esque nightmares of the southern states of the US pale in comparison to large swathes of Europe. Belarus. There’s another gem for you.

47

I said Europe, not individual European countries.

48

Stray Dog: In case you hadn’t noticed, European nations collectively make Europe. If you averaged out the GDP of Germany with the GDP of Romania, you’d end up with a shitty situation too. No, you don’t even have to go to somewhere obviously fucked up like Romania. You go to Spain and the place is a nightmare. That’s why the PIIGS (Spain being the S in that acronym) are so named. That’s why the Germans are shitting themselves right now. Do they keep throwing money at these basket cases, or do they let the Euro, and with it, quite possibly the whole broader political project of European integration, fall apart?

Christ dude, look at some financial news outside of the U.S. for once. You’re just confirming the stereotype.

49

You’re being silly. Why would anybody pick two European countries to average out? Use Europe collectively, and it outperforms the United States.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about looking at financial news outside the US. Are you OK?

50

The problem is that the EU has financial regulation without the executive powers to enforce them. But, it looks like the EU is moving that way.

Pretty soon, you’ll… No, we are ALREADY hearing about state’s rights issues in the EU.

Any bets on when the EU will become a defacto ‘United States of Europe’?

51

Europe’s not a country. The claim mentioned earlier is that “America is the greatest nation ever”. Nation, not “nation or group of nations with equivalent GDP”. You’ll have to be fair in your comparisons if you want to be taken seriously. You make some other good points, of course.

It doesn’t sound like you’re remotely interested in giving credit where credit is due. Have a look at world navies, for instance. Aircraft carriers. It isn’t even close. In some areas, the US strength equals the rest of the globe combined.

[quote=“World Wide Aircraft Carriers”]America has twice as many aircraft carriers - 20 - as the rest of humanity combined - 10 -, and America’s aircraft carriers are substantially larger than almost all the other’s aircraft carriers. The Navy likes to call the big Nimitz class carriers “4.5 acres of sovereign and mobile American territory” – and all twenty American carriers of all classes add up to nearly 70 acres of deck space. Deckspace is probably a good measure of combat power. The rest of the world’s carriers have less than 15 acres of deck space, one fifth that of America’s.

[/quote]Look at stealth fighters and bombers. Nuclear-powered attack subs (again, I think the US has more than the rest of the world). And so on.

I have a feeling that you’d be damning the US military either way. If it succeeds without bringing an alliance together you’d be accusing the US of going it alone. If it succeeds in bring an alliance together you insinuate that it couldn’t have done it alone. If you want a real conversation, start by being fair. :stuck_out_tongue:

I suppose if someone mentions space travel you’ll babble about how Sputnik was first.

I’m not one of those who goes around calling America the greatest country on earth, but it is strongest in some areas, and it wouldn’t hurt you to be objective about that.

52

[quote=“Stray Dog”]You’re being silly. Why would anybody pick two European countries to average out? Use Europe collectively, and it outperforms the United States.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about looking at financial news outside the US. Are you OK?[/quote]

Can you back that up? Since you’re making the claim, what is the per capita GDP of Europe compared to that of the US? What is the average debt level, per capita or as a percentage of GDP (which will probably be easier to find or calculate), of Europe compared to that of the US? Don’t forget that Europe has somewhere in the vicinity of 50 countries, which is actually kind of a convenient number, when we think about it. Please don’t forget such bastions of having their shit together as Moldova or Albania.

EDIT: In fact, I’ll do part of it for you.

According to Wikipedia [wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)[/wikipedia], Europe had a 2010 GDP of 19.92 trillion USD. Also, according to Wikipedia [wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe[/wikipedia] it has a population of 731 million people. That gives it a per capita GDP of 27,250 USD.

According to Wikipedia [wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states[/wikipedia], the USA has a per capita GDP of 47,132 USD.

Ouch!

53

Dragonbones, you’ve made too many assumptions for me to respond to. But realize that they’re your assumptions, not mine.

GuyInTaiwan, Wikipedia has Europe above the United States: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

That’s a list compiled nominally; if you want to list countries on a per-capita basis, then there are six or seven countries way above the United States, which I guess, according to argument presented here, means that the United States is jealous of those countries and can therefore be accused of being anti-Qatar, anti-Luxembourg, even anti-Norway.

But, no, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone talk about such things, which is why I’m sticking by my previous posts and concurring with those others who believe that there really isn’t such a thing as ‘anti-American’ per se.

54

I want to compare Europe on a per capita basis with America on a per capita basis.

Europe does not mean Norway, Luxembourg or any other particular country, obviously. That’s as meaningless as taking any one particular state from the U.S. and claiming it to be indicative of the U.S. Europe means Europe in aggregate. Therefore, per capita means Europeans, not individual nationalities. As such, you take the total GDP of Europe and divide it by the total population of Europe.

You yourself wrote:

[quote]You’re being silly. Why would anybody pick two European countries to average out? Use Europe collectively, and it outperforms the United States.[/quote] (Underlining added by me.) I have presented data that shows that your claim (by your standards) is incorrect.

Obviously individual countries will compare better than the U.S. will as a whole if we look at things that way, though plenty will also compare worse. That wasn’t your claim though. Your claim was Europe comparing more favourably than the U.S., and that is clearly wrong on a whole lot of levels. As I stated earlier, I don’t remember mass graves or peace keepers within even the worst regions of the U.S. within the past few decades.

55

It doesn’t matter. Europe is a continent, the US is a country. This is grade Three stuff folks.

56

Mate, you’re trying to support your argument that the United States’ GDP is the envy of the world. It’s not. It’s only half of the leading per-capita GDP and only about 30 percent higher than the next fifteen countries, including Taiwan. You can make any comparisons you want in any way you want, but what we’re discussing in this thread is the assertion that people hate America(ns) because of jealousy of its GDP, among other things. But that theory just doesn’t hold water, does it.

57

I’ve given several. No response?

58

I missed them. What were they? And are you sure they would all provoke envy?

59

Never mind.

60

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“fruitloop”]
Films, TV, American English (ideas), research papers, pop culture, fast food, [/quote]
Huh? Brit films and TV are SO far ahead of the American stuff that it’s not even funny![/quote]
Mostly, I agree. But I said dominant. Not better.

I just meant your language spreads your culture and ideas. And I don’t really know this, but I’m guessing the US dominates in terms of research papers.

The English language has served us very nicely in spreading our memes. It’s just that the upstart developed a mind of its own.

There was a chippy in Taipei, wasn’t there?

Jeans, t-shirts, “sneakers”, baseball, basketball, yellow taxis, green road signs, SUVs, popcorn, chewing gum, consumerism - none of these are an inevitable state of nature, they are all things that were invented and/or popularised in certain places at certain times and a sign of American cultural power. The mass market chain stores Net, Hang Ten, Giordano, Baleno, 7-11 etc - are either American or American style.

Comparing US GDP with other economies such as Europe, or Qatar - for one it’s the EU or Eurozone that is the pertinent comparison, not the continent of Europe. The EU is a political and economic union, not a continent. Secondly, it’s being rich and powerful that makes people jealous or indignant, not just rich.

I should have said hegemonic power, not top dog. Top dog means the dog that gets all the bitches and gets its own way. The US is, for now, undeniably the hegemonic power.