Really interesting that he still has quite a role within KMT. I think the Mao’s portrait hanging on Tianmen has more to do with boosting the legitimacy of the party than anything else. CCP has admitted Mao’s failures to some extent but publicly criticizing him isn’t really allowed. Mao’s role as the leader of the revolution plays huge part in the legitimacy of the CCP. I remember Deng saying that Nikita Kruschev’s condemnation of Stalin’s crimes would poison the party from within and thus undermine the whole system. Everyone knows what happened later on. This is precicely what CCP fears would happen if they allowed criticizing Mao. Anyways, really interesting discussion.
Also about the CKS memorial hall, I believe it’s quite large tourist attraction and removing it would probably hurt tourism. I have never visited it but seeing from photos I think the outerior looks pretty nice.
It’s a blatant rip off of the Lincoln Memorial, right down to CKS sitting on a chair in the same pose. Well, the outside building looks like an overgrown lemon squeezer in white and blue, not at all like a proper building, that’s true.
Lots of tourists DO come to see the changing of the Guard, with their shiny helmets, that is true, but you could have a troupe of dancing monkeys and you’d get the same number of tourists come through.
Do you know of this phenomenon anywhere else?[/quote]
Yes but not offhand. I will look through some old material as I looked into this maybe 5 years ago and there were a few other places.[/quote]
I hope that every statue of CKS is removed and melted, and that every memorial to him is named for Taiwan. That being said, I hope that he is s permanently buried in Taiwan as he would have hated the idea.
With respect to monuments for authoritarian leaders in now democratic countries . . . I’d imagine that there are any number of European countries with statues and memorials to Kings and Queens who were more than symbolic figureheads.
Outside of the question of royalty, though I’d imagine that the respect due an authoritarian leader is a matter of perspective. Imagine a dynastic aristocrat who held power longer any other leader in his nation’s history, and presided over a racial undercaste that was politically and economically disenfranchised, and another persecuted minority group that was imprisoned solely due to their appearance . . . And yet, notwithstanding the possible views of African Americans and Japanese Americans, FDR is a hero with a memorial. Of course I regard him highly, but it isn’t unreasonable that others wouldn’t.
Maybe people in Taiwan could start naming other places for him? The CKS Nuclear Waste Facility? District 4 Sewage Treatment Facility - The CKS Center?
Or we could name really Taiwanese or leftist things after him. NTNU’s new CKS 台語/Taiwanese Language Academy. Or the the Chiayi United Labor and Trade Federation - CKS Chapter.
Maybe certain Taiwanese foods should bear his name. CKS Mochi or CKS Rice Balls (peanut filling, of course)? CKS branded bing lang would be hilarious. Or, in homage to that great American Colonel’s delicious KFC . . . Yep, you guessed it . . .the Gimo’s Taiwanese Popcorn Chicken! Just think of all the great branding opportunities! I can already imagine what a little cartoon CKS would look like in advertisements hawking yummy chicken bits.
Looks like some Taiwanese entrepreneurs in Beijing are already getting in on the idea.
From the photos it looks like people are eating some oyster omelettes and braised pork rice, neither of which strike me as particularly 外省 especially given that the restaurant is called 蔣先生外省菜館 or Mr. Chiang’s Waisheng Restaurant. Although I guess Taiwanese is waisheng to people in Beijing and Hebei, so maybe that is part of the joke! To add further insult to injury (to CKS, that is) I note that Dianping (which appears to be a Chinese version of Yelp) has this restaurant listed in the category of Taiwanese food.
Land reform was the vision of Dr Sun Yat-sen. Feudalism and all that.
And Chiang Kai-shek’s image has slowly been reformed on the mainland. Though it probably should be Chiang Ching-kuo’s image should be promoted. Except that he started the democratization process on Taiwan which is something the Communists would never allow willingly and therefore not want to advertise.
The ideas of good and evil are not the same as in the West for Chinese. God is absolute good, Satan is absolute evil. But when you look at a Taijitu, the black part has a dot of white and the white part has a dot of black. That’s a gross generalization, of course, but you get the idea.
edit: Oh and, before Chiang Kai-shek retreated to Taiwan, the picture on Tiananmen Square was Chiang’s. There was a bit of Cult of Personality there, though nothing like Mao’s.
Yup, he’s being reclaimed as a son of Ningbo (I live in Ningbo), though I dunno if the people are really feeling it. I like this real photograph from God’s own country, rural Zhejiang. bamboocompass.com/china-attr … -1430.html
Just looked his birthplace museum up on TripAdvisor. This guy from Fort Worth, Texas says ‘I have been a fan of Chiang Kai-shek for many years and really enjoyed visiting his ancestral home.’ You can have your photo taken with a look-alike for 10 kuai in what must a solemn, respectful experience.
Nice. Salt was a very good business to be in. Once upon a time, from my understanding, you had to get permission directly from the Emperor (rather, I think it was a granted) to be in the salt business. No wonder his parents could send him to Japan for an education.
When KMT and CKS arrived in Taiwan, did they actually fight against the people that were already living in Taiwan? I know that almost immediately CKS enacted the marshal law that lasted for quite a long time, but were there many conflicts with the original people?
My favourite story is about an 11 year old boy who almost accidentally ended up on a boat to Taiwan. The soldiers stole his money and he lived rough in Keelong before joining up himself. It really humanised the whole thing for me because I never really considered how arbitrary a lot of the rank and file’s KMT allegiance was, and how hard it was for some of them to be uprooted. I guess I just always thought ‘KMT = murdering invaders’, before, even though that’s obviously not the whole story.
In an earlier post, I had mentioned that I thought all of the CKS statues should be scrapped and melted. BUt, now I wonder if it might be better for them to all find homes in the CKS statute park in Cihu.
Wiki indicates that in 2000, there were an estimated 43,000 CKS statues throughout Taiwan. While it is infuriating that so many Taiwanese still oppose efforts to remove his image, and in doing so they present a whitewashed version of history, given the political capital that any modern Taiwanese leader would have to expend on pursuing a symbolic act I am seriously wondering if ridicule and humor might better express contempt for the man rather than rage and removal. If CKS was to remembered as an object of laughter and whimsy rather than an architect of terror, I think that his image and reverence in Taiwan would take a major hit.
If only there was a way to start an internet meme . . . would be hilarious if young people all started referring to sweet runbing (creamy ice cream filing, with shaved peanuts or peanut rittle) as zhongzhengbing? Or if someone was acting all arrogant, pompous and full of empty bluster on a Taiwanese variety show, if the host would say “Don’t be so CKS”. Rather than writing murderer on his statues on 2-28, perhaps people could dress him (or paint on) some lacy undergarments or a daring Brazilian bikini, or glue a giant rainbow wig on his bold dome along with a clown nose. Instead of trying to make his supporters legally recognize that he was a monster (and many Deep Blues are too emotionally invested in the KMT/ROC’s legacy to ever do so), I think it would be more effective if young Taiwanese would remember him as a buffoon and clown.
i am for removing Chiang Baldie statues and against them being scrapped. Putting them in Cihu would be an ok option.
There was an deface your school’s Chiang Baldie statue movement this past 228. Students were very creative. Maybe the statue should remain as Mayor Ko suggests, but serve to be defaced and spit on, much like the Qin Kuai (秦檜) statues in China.
[quote=“hansioux”]I am for removing Chiang Baldie statues and against them being scrapped. Putting them in Cihu would be an ok option.
There was an deface your school’s Chiang Baldie statue movement this past 228. Students were very creative. Maybe the statue should remain as Mayor Ko suggests, but serve to be defaced and spit on, much like the Qin Kuai (秦檜) statues in China. [/quote]
Those are pretty interesting efforts, and my hats off to the students. I would encourage more humor and less anger though as the best way to show contempt is through ridicule.
I always thought that the picture of CKS in the article below would make a great “Velvet Elvis” type image.
even when the piece of metal is made by money you and your ancestors tax dollars to glorify a murderer who ordered a massacre of said ancestors and oppressed liberty for decades?
I wonder how many Saddam statues are still standing in Iraq, or how many Pol Pot statues are still standing in Cambodia. I read they made gold and silver statues of Pol Pot back in the day.
