Is this a cultural thing? I get upset when I see this. I feel like my three year old daughter could benefit more from a hug instead of a verbal assault after she takes a dive on the sidewalk. How does one teach one’s Taiwanese wife some compassion? Or am I just being culturally insensitive again. Is this just the average style of mothering here?
Verbal attack sounds par for the course here. There’s often very little positive encouragement from parents, just a stream of:
don’t do this
don’t do that
stop it
that’s dangerous
behave yourself
sit properly
But you gotta lead out, show her the way. It’s the only way!
About half a year ago, our daughter was really nervous around the house (there was really heavy rain outside, and she wanted to go to the park). She was tripping with everything on her path, falling to the floor all the time and dragging all kinds of objects with her. One of these was my wife’s handbag, which happened to be in the living room chair (my in-laws and wife leave their jackets, bags and stuff on the living room table and chairs all the time, which drives me nuts, but it’s their home anyways).
In any case, my wife, who was really cranky at the time, grabbed our daughter and began twist-pinching her thigh in anger as a punishment, with the resulting wails and screams. I told her not to do that, since inflicting physical harm as a punishment is being unnecessarily cruel and totally pointless with small kids anyways.
I know it’s difficult to keep the cool sometimes (like, when you have told your child not to do something for 40+ times and she insists in doing it, and then as a result, it breaks/ruins/utterly destroys something you’ve been working on for a whole day), but that should not be an excuse for anyone to be unnecessarily cruel to a kid.
Most of the times my daughter is being unreasonable and throwing a tantrum, I’ve observed that works far better to stop everything, take her to one side, and speak calmly to her, explaining why she can’t do whatever she’s not supposed to do.
Yesterday, my father in-law decided to give her a ballpen (despite all the times I told him not to, because she has her own colour pencils, which happen to be easily washable, as opposed to the ballpen’s ink). It took her maybe half an hour to make a mess: she painted her bed sheets and the white parts of a plush penguin she has. I noticed something had happened even though I was working (I had one of the craziest afternoons yesterday) because my daughter fell completely silent for a while. I went to find her, and she was trying to wipe the penguin clean with a napkin.
I took the ballpen first, then sit her down with the penguin, and I told her that the ballpen can’t wash off from the poor penguin, that if she wanted to paint, she should have asked me for her notepad, which is available at any moment, as well as her pencils. She ended up hugging the penguin and apologizing to the plush for drawing on its tummy, so I think the lesson was well-understood.
OT I guess, but I’m glad (a) that it’s not just my wife, and (b) that I’m not the only one driven nuts by it.
With my active son, he’d fall/trip over things outside quite often. I never made a big deal out of it. I always told my wife to stay back and see what he did after falling. Most of the time, my son would get up and go back to playing. If he cried, then I knew it was serious. I’d pick him up and console him.
blaquesmith sounds like an awesome parent. He should be giving parenting courses.
To the OP, yes they (nearly) all do it, and I hate that pinching/twisting thing they do. It’s just pure repressed aggression.
All they’re doing is copying their parents. I’ve had so many conversations with Taiwanese people who were slapped down (physically and psychologically) as a kid and they tell me how much they hated it and how they know they were scarred by it. 80% of them then go and do the exact same thing to their own kids. It’s just human nature. People do it everywhere.
As for being culturally insensitive, fuck culture. When people roll out that ‘culture’ word, it’s invariably to excuse some inexcusable behaviour that has no logical justification. Take the lead here. Be the parent who picks up your daughter and gives her a hug and don’t let mum be the first there with a scolding. When she sees the results she’ll probably come around to your way of thinking. Eventually.
OK, question as a non parent and only experience as eldest of 5: aren’t you supposed NOT to make a fuss when the child falls? I mean, no over protective smooching/consolation, just par de course? Please explain.
I agree on repressed aggression: they have the kids as an obligation, hence, they resent them. I am sick and tired of hearing people say “if I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have kids”. This is not a Catholic country nor it is not illegal to buy contraceptives, you had your choice, live with it.
In general, I find people less aware of the psychological effects of what they do here. On one hand, they say they are making their kids strong, but without independent thinking and logical action deduction -like Blaque’s example of the penguin, brilliant- then the kid will grow to be what we see: the ones that tie their shoes in the middle of the road and not know enough to take care of themselves from predators because they obey anyone who speaks loud to them or threatens to hit them.
[quote=“finley”]blaquesmith sounds like an awesome parent. He should be giving parenting courses.
To the OP, yes they (nearly) all do it, and I hate that pinching/twisting thing they do. It’s just pure repressed aggression.
All they’re doing is copying their parents. I’ve had so many conversations with Taiwanese people who were slapped down (physically and psychologically) as a kid and they tell me how much they hated it and how they know they were scarred by it. 80% of them then go and do the exact same thing to their own kids. It’s just human nature. People do it everywhere.
As for being culturally insensitive, fuck culture. When people roll out that ‘culture’ word, it’s invariably to excuse some inexcusable behaviour that has no logical justification. Take the lead here. Be the parent who picks up your daughter and gives her a hug and don’t let mum be the first there with a scolding. When she sees the results she’ll probably come around to your way of thinking. Eventually.[/quote]
I don’t claim to be, I just try my best (as I’m sure every parent does).
In fact, I also copy my parents. At least, I copy all the things that used to work. But I remember myself thinking sometimes “they’re just being unfair” or “they should have explained that to me instead of just forbidding/ordering me to do that”. And I’m aware that sometimes there’s no time to explain, or sometimes you’re just too tired to. And the kid can understand that if you tell him (or her). They have to know that they can trust you, and that sometimes you’ll be too tired to explain, and that’s OK, because they get tired too sometimes. They get that.
The key here is talking to them, spend time with them explaining some of the concepts that can be applied to real life. That’s one of the reasons I managed to keep my old Richard Scarry storybooks. I introduced them to my daughter this year, and they’ve become a favourite of hers really fast. The stories there talk about the parent’s jobs, kids doing the chores at home, how are houses built, how do the firemen extinguish a fire… And all the characters are cute animals.
She really loves the stories and characters. In the one that shows how a house is built, the electrician (a dog) is looking right at the reader and says “don’t touch the electric wires, EVER!”. So my daughter has become much more careful with the outlets. In one of the stories, a piggy mom is doing house chores with the help of their kids. The kids actively help in cleaning the home, going to the supermarket to buy food, make dinner… I also encourage her to help in what she can, and she loves doing it. Whenever she is fooling around instead, you can always say “Do you remember how the characters in the storybook help her mom and dad? Can you do the same?” Then she gets all excited and starts helping out, saying “like [insert name of the character here]”.
Sadly, most of those books are out of print now (mine are from between 1978 and 1981, my parents bought them when I was my daughter’s age), but I’m sure there are other similar ones that can be of help. The key to get the kids (even the most active ones, like my daughter) to enjoy reading books is using it as a reward. She knows if she behaves well, after the bath and before going to bed, I’m going to read some of the stories to her. It’s one of the most useful ways to improve her vocabulary and language, she anjoys the stories and she also learns other things. She also knows if she gets up early, gets dressed and eats her breakfast soon, I’ll read her another one before leaving for daycare with mom. It’s a treat for her, but also for us, because we manage to get her calm for a while my wife finishes dressing up for work and takes her out (after that is my turn to hit the shower and dress up).
I don’t know if it’s the best way of doing things, but it works for me.
That said, sometimes you’ll have to scold your kid. It’s just the way things are. But they should be kept to a minimum, and only used sparingly for when things have been really serious, Like that one time she let go of my hand and ran into the traffic in Zhongxiao E. Rd. I ran after her and grabbed her before anything happened, but it could have been very serious (or even fatal). A short scold, followed by a more calm explanation, was enough. She didn’t run into the traffic anymore after that, but she still lets go of the hand sometimes. She doesn’t see anyone holding hands on the street, so she doesn’t want to, either (blame the Taiwanese phobia to public displays of affection here). When she is starting to let go, and before it escalates, I offer to carry her sitting on my shoulders, like the little girl in the movie “My neighbour Totoro”, which is her favourite. Since that’s a rare treat for her, she immediately accepts, and the tantrum in the middle of the street is averted even before it happens.
[quote=“Icon”]OK, question as a non parent and only experience as eldest of 5: aren’t you supposed NOT to make a fuss when the child falls? I mean, no over protective smooching/consolation, just par de course? Please explain.
I agree on repressed aggression: they have the kids as an obligation, hence, they resent them. I am sick and tired of hearing people say “if I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have kids”. This is not a Catholic country nor it is not illegal to buy contraceptives, you had your choice, live with it.
In general, I find people less aware of the psychological effects of what they do here. On one hand, they say they are making their kids strong, but without independent thinking and logical action deduction -like Blaque’s example of the penguin, brilliant- then the kid will grow to be what we see: the ones that tie their shoes in the middle of the road and not know enough to take care of themselves from predators because they obey anyone who speaks loud to them or threatens to hit them.[/quote]
I’m going to quote Alfred Pennyworth here: “Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.”
And yes, that’s a quote from Batman’s butler. That doesn’t make it less true.
If the kid is injured (scrape, blood, the works), you have to calmly go to him or her, and see if they can stand on their own (offer a hand, or pick them up if they can’t). Most kids will cry and kick and do a big deal if they see blood. If you talk to them and explain they broke the skin, so the blood is coming out, but that’s OK because it means it will heal, and you explain what you’re doing while you wash the would and apply first aid, the kids will listen. First of all, they’re curious, and giving them something to think about takes their attention off the injury. Second, acting calmly helps caming them down too. A hug doesn’t hurt either, of course.
If the kid is not injured, you ask him/her to stand up (offer them a hand, but not pick them up if they’re not injured), and then you take off the dust if any, and go wash their hands and face. If they broke their trousers or clothes with the fall, that’s bad luck: every one of us did that, and kids will keep doing that unless you buy them kevlar-reinforced clothes. I remember breaking three pairs of glasses in one year because of the games we used to play in recess at school, and my parents were angry about it, but they just told me to be careful next time and try not to break them because the glasses were really expensive. And they ended up spending a little bit more and buying reinforced glasses anyways.
As for the “having kids as an obligation”, that’s BS. no one forces you to get your wife pregnant. There are effective contraceptives, and that’s it. Unless they are actively watching you, if you don’t have kids you can say “we’re trying but no luck for the moment, sorry”, if you don’t want to antagonize them. Or you can just tell them “Last time I checked, having kids was a matter of two people, the husband and the wife, so please step back and leave us live our lives. You have your own.”
That’s a lovely post, blaque. I’m about to be a father myself and need to learn some of these techniques. Asking a child to help as a character in a book is brilliant.
Fortunately, with respect to punishment I had good parents as roll models and my wife is Italian not Taiwanese and has zero tolerance for any form of corporeal punishment or repressed aggression. Even when I was joking with my cat for causing a fuss at the boarding house on the weekend (forcing us to come back from Singapore early) she would not hear of it: he had not embarrassed us, she said, as he was only expressing his fear which he has no control over. 
But yeah the pinching. I had to stop visiting my oldest friends in Taiwan after they had kids as it was just to painful to watch the never-ending psycho-drama of neglect followed by anger followed by punishment followed by remorse followed by treats followed by neglect followed by bad behavior.
The flipside of the Dunning-Kruger effect is that people who are unusually competent underestimate their own abilities.
In case any of you are interested about the books I mentioned, I noticed some of them are still published in English, or at least available:
What do people all day?: amazon.com/What-Do-People-Al … E43X3HY7B2
Busy, busy world: amazon.com/Richard-Scarrys-B … busy+world
Great big air book: amazon.com/Richard-Scarrys-G … S790K45JAW
thanks… will look them up
Congrats, MM.
Thank you. It’s a fresh beginning that I never thought would happen which makes it all the more magical.
Mmm, it doesn’t start to get magical until a few months in 
. Welcome to the club, though 
.
Yesterday on the MRT, a lady got on next to me with a young child in a pushchair. The child was, I estimate ,about 10 months old, and couldn’t speak but could hold herself up. Two children got on and were showing an interest in the child, making faces, gesturing etc, trying to entertain the very cute baby. In response the babywas stretching herself towards them, and over the edge of the pushchair, slightly risking falling out. Did the mother gently persuade back into the chair or give her gentle verbal instruction? Errr no… She responded by slapping the child in the face, to which the baby duly sat back in their chair,indicating this was normal for her mother to do this.
Wtf??
Who slaps their kids for doing something so innocent like that?
Some people are so messed up.
Congrats MM great news.
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Why you fall? Why you not good at walking?
That’s what my mom was like and then she wonders why I like Chinese girls.
[quote=“TheTruthIsOutThere”]Yesterday on the MRT, a lady got on next to me with a young child in a pushchair. The child was, I estimate ,about 10 months old, and couldn’t speak but could hold herself up. Two children got on and were showing an interest in the child, making faces, gesturing etc, trying to entertain the very cute baby. In response the babywas stretching herself towards them, and over the edge of the pushchair, slightly risking falling out. Did the mother gently persuade back into the chair or give her gentle verbal instruction? Errr no… She responded by slapping the child in the face, to which the baby duly sat back in their chair,indicating this was normal for her mother to do this.
[/quote]
Welcome to Taiwan. Why do you think this place is so mindless?
as a parent to multiple kids, the reaction of a parent to a child who fell / tripped etc. should a situational, ie. not one reaction is applicable to all. here are the situations or use cases:
1. child walks and minding their business, fell but no blood.
2. same as above but with scraps and / or blood
my reaction as a parent would be totally different.
UC 1. wait for the child to pick him/her self up, or wait further and now ask the child to stand up and keep moving
UC 2. ask the child how he/she is, maybe give a hug if it's really bad scrapping, and remind them that they need to focus on walking
3. the kids are chasing or playing catch with each other up and down the foot path. I let the kids know if they continue someone will get hurt etc.
One of the kid falls to the ground.
The obv. and most frequent reaction is the scolding, how should I be judged now by the passer by?